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Dry_Guy

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  1. Upvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from MSW-MD in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    * McMSW = McDonalidzation of social work education, the trend in which schools of social work are trying to cram five years of social work education into a cheapened two year program. This statement and above facts all day!
    It is incredibly infuriating to spend 4 years learning about social work theories, practices, tools, critically thinking about the the impacts of neoliberalism on individuals and society, completing practicums, unpacking yours and others sh!t (if you're offended by this statement, you will probably struggle in the program because there is a lot of sh!t you will witness once the topics of white privilege and white supremacy, whiteness are discussed in social work, but i digress)  and then seeing it get lost in a 2 year MSW program. Adding insult to the injury is then those 2 year MSW program graduates go out into the world, often with no strong foundation in social work theories and struggle with the true values of social work (i'm not saying all, but definitely many). If you really are a social worker (undergrad or not) you will not struggle with these concepts as your experience in the field will have made it abundantly clear the numerous ways in which systemic racism and oppression clearly exist in our society and how the system is truly rigged to continues marginalizing those who are most vulnerable. Access to opportunities is a privilege. Hard work is hard work.  You will know the importance of advocacy work and how integral it is the work social workers do. They don't just help people. They are advocates too. It is at the core of the profession. Unfortunately understanding this sometimes takes more than 2 years and for schools such as u of t reminding students of this may not be a part of their agenda. 
     
    I originally asked the question about diversity because i had heard from a handful of MSW graduates from Toronto, who are both people of colour and not people of colour,  and almost all described the campus, institution and education much as Yweang described it as. I had also seen the above statistics when researching the program (albeit difficult to find) and was curious if the questionnaire arose as a way to assist in addressing the issue of lack of diversity in the classroom and research labs.
    I mentioned in an earlier post, but will repeat again here I have also heard many people in the last 2-3  years mention their frustration with these very things and that many graduates discussed these concerns with the administration in their program reviews and  spoke with with program directors, however not much has changed. Reading the MSW message from the dean and the reality at u of t is incredibly ironic......based on the many lived experiences of both white and non-white graduates i have spoken too and heard about. Am hoping for the possibility of changes in the next year...but alas the issue of the The mcMSW degree exists.....
     
    All that being said, thank you for sharing your thoughts everyone. It is much appreciated. The lack of diversity at u of t is a big issue as the school holds a strong monopoly with partnerships in the community and is one of the few 'clinical' school in the province. The lack of diverse opinions, faces and experiences (both white and non-white) impacts the opinions, discussions and critical thinking that takes places and the ways in which interventions are being developed...it's too important to simply dismiss as a 'racist statement against white people'. The issue is far more complex and quite frankly rather insulting to simply call it racist. 
  2. Upvote
    Dry_Guy reacted to ssbbaker in NEW Canadian universities M.S.W thread (2017)   
    Guys! My ROSI says I'm invited to U of T's advanced standing!
    I think that means I got in?
  3. Upvote
    Dry_Guy reacted to cupcake in NEW Canadian universities M.S.W thread (2017)   
    It could also be because schools of social work that require students to do research - such as Mac, Ryerson, and York, fund students because of the fact students do research - which, in academic institutions, is a recognized form of currency and work (regardless of what becomes of it). Schools of social work that do not require students to engage in original research, such as Laurier, Windsor, and UFT, typically offer limited funding - reserved to a handful of scholarships.
    That being said, I do think you are onto something about tuition fees being connected to "best placement opportunities". If you go on some of the hospital websites, you will see that they are affiliated with UfT, and that money is involved - which probably comes from tuition fees as the source of university's money making 
     
  4. Upvote
    Dry_Guy reacted to SW15 in NEW Canadian universities M.S.W thread (2017)   
    It's hard to say why...one thing I've heard is that at U of T you pay for connections/partnerships that U of T has with other organizations, so while other schools prioritize funding students U of T prioritizes it's professional ties for students to get the best placement opportunities (i.e. U of T's monopoly on the university health network--all of the main hospitals in Toronto can only take U of T MSW students). Even if this is the case though, it would only be a partial answer at best.
    Unfortunately there are zero opportunities to TA at U of T, mainly because the school doesn't have a BSW program. There are RA opportunities though, I have several friends who help professors in the faculty with research for good wages, and there are frequent emails that go out to students detailing new opportunities! Also, U of T has like this central online hub thing that has all campus job postings so I have a bunch of friends who are getting paid to do research in other faculties/other social worker relevant jobs on campus :).
  5. Downvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from torontomsw2016 in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    BHAHAHAA - not sure about the presumptions you made here and the sweeping statements about the other poster being confrontational or making others feel attacked. Kinda bold of you to speak on behalf the entire "we" who applied to u of t. You don't speak for everyone. i actually thought opinions shared by the poster were informative and helpful. Appeared to me it was a fair question too. I applied to u of t as well, but have spoken to a number of students in the program and many are disappointed. u of t has not been listening to its students for the last two years and many are feeling their experiences has been much like a bait ad switch. Maybe you've got post application nerves - but seriously, not everything is offensive or an attack, or confrontational. Besides if you can't handle the different ways in which others may communicate, social work may not be for you.  Just saying' *kanye shrug*
  6. Upvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from tnt92 in NEW Canadian universities M.S.W thread (2017)   
    I have no idea, but from creeping on these forums as well lol it seems like last year was a weird fluke, if I'm wrong someone can correct me. 
  7. Upvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from ssbbaker in NEW Canadian universities M.S.W thread (2017)   
    I have no idea, but from creeping on these forums as well lol it seems like last year was a weird fluke, if I'm wrong someone can correct me. 
  8. Upvote
    Dry_Guy reacted to wishingonuoft in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    Don't let numbers intimidate you. If these numbers are true, [I wouldn't bet that anything Yweang says is true, but I digress], then chances of getting in are less than 4% if they were picking people randomly like a lottery system. They are not picking people randomly like a lottery system, you have a greater chance of getting into the program than someone who is not as good a fit as you are. The acceptance rates for all programs are low, but keep in mind there are so many areas of your applications where you can stand out from the crowd. Low chance doesn't mean no chance, and there are a ton of MSW applications that come in from people very underqualified looking to get the degree as a "next step" because they don't know what else to do after their undergrad, people applying who don't really have a good understanding what social work is at all, and many more reasons that someone might make for a poor candidate. When I was applying to the program, I had 6 friends applying for clearly the wrong reasons, they didn't even get waitlisted. 
    Trust in your experience, it is unique to you and has led you to where you are today: applying to work in one of the most wonderful fields out there. It's hard not to dwell on numbers and statistics when they're so scary and in your face, but as future social workers (and I have no doubt you are ALL future social workers), you would never reduce someone else to just a number, so don't do that to yourself. Hopefully you get in this round, if not, you'll find a way to make it work--if it is truly your calling, you will find a way. My practicum supervisor right now didn't get into the MSW until their 4th try and now they are working as a head social worker in a hospital department. The path to success isn't perfectly linear, most people have a few hiccups down the road, try your best to not let those hiccups stop your from continuing your journey. I am so excited to hear about your successes!
  9. Upvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from c.dizzle in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    Just out of curiosity - has anyone confirmed this with Angela at UofT? Or is this information just based on years past and Yweang's information? 
  10. Upvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from ssbbaker in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    Just out of curiosity - has anyone confirmed this with Angela at UofT? Or is this information just based on years past and Yweang's information? 
  11. Downvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from sososocialwork in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    BHAHAHAA - not sure about the presumptions you made here and the sweeping statements about the other poster being confrontational or making others feel attacked. Kinda bold of you to speak on behalf the entire "we" who applied to u of t. You don't speak for everyone. i actually thought opinions shared by the poster were informative and helpful. Appeared to me it was a fair question too. I applied to u of t as well, but have spoken to a number of students in the program and many are disappointed. u of t has not been listening to its students for the last two years and many are feeling their experiences has been much like a bait ad switch. Maybe you've got post application nerves - but seriously, not everything is offensive or an attack, or confrontational. Besides if you can't handle the different ways in which others may communicate, social work may not be for you.  Just saying' *kanye shrug*
  12. Upvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from cupcake in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    * McMSW = McDonalidzation of social work education, the trend in which schools of social work are trying to cram five years of social work education into a cheapened two year program. This statement and above facts all day!
    It is incredibly infuriating to spend 4 years learning about social work theories, practices, tools, critically thinking about the the impacts of neoliberalism on individuals and society, completing practicums, unpacking yours and others sh!t (if you're offended by this statement, you will probably struggle in the program because there is a lot of sh!t you will witness once the topics of white privilege and white supremacy, whiteness are discussed in social work, but i digress)  and then seeing it get lost in a 2 year MSW program. Adding insult to the injury is then those 2 year MSW program graduates go out into the world, often with no strong foundation in social work theories and struggle with the true values of social work (i'm not saying all, but definitely many). If you really are a social worker (undergrad or not) you will not struggle with these concepts as your experience in the field will have made it abundantly clear the numerous ways in which systemic racism and oppression clearly exist in our society and how the system is truly rigged to continues marginalizing those who are most vulnerable. Access to opportunities is a privilege. Hard work is hard work.  You will know the importance of advocacy work and how integral it is the work social workers do. They don't just help people. They are advocates too. It is at the core of the profession. Unfortunately understanding this sometimes takes more than 2 years and for schools such as u of t reminding students of this may not be a part of their agenda. 
     
    I originally asked the question about diversity because i had heard from a handful of MSW graduates from Toronto, who are both people of colour and not people of colour,  and almost all described the campus, institution and education much as Yweang described it as. I had also seen the above statistics when researching the program (albeit difficult to find) and was curious if the questionnaire arose as a way to assist in addressing the issue of lack of diversity in the classroom and research labs.
    I mentioned in an earlier post, but will repeat again here I have also heard many people in the last 2-3  years mention their frustration with these very things and that many graduates discussed these concerns with the administration in their program reviews and  spoke with with program directors, however not much has changed. Reading the MSW message from the dean and the reality at u of t is incredibly ironic......based on the many lived experiences of both white and non-white graduates i have spoken too and heard about. Am hoping for the possibility of changes in the next year...but alas the issue of the The mcMSW degree exists.....
     
    All that being said, thank you for sharing your thoughts everyone. It is much appreciated. The lack of diversity at u of t is a big issue as the school holds a strong monopoly with partnerships in the community and is one of the few 'clinical' school in the province. The lack of diverse opinions, faces and experiences (both white and non-white) impacts the opinions, discussions and critical thinking that takes places and the ways in which interventions are being developed...it's too important to simply dismiss as a 'racist statement against white people'. The issue is far more complex and quite frankly rather insulting to simply call it racist. 
  13. Upvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from cupcake in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    I'm sorry to hear about your field placement experience. I understand what you mean though about not caring for their pedagogical approach. To be honest, I struggled with applying to an MSW school that aligned with my personal values. Unfortunately, each school it seems is very polarizing. After much thinking, I had to acknowledge a clinical-focus is what I require to advance my career and professional development. Sidenote though: I am often left scratching my head when I see schools of social work teaching clinical practices rooted in the dated medical model. :/ 
    It is my hope after U of T's assessment report, and the introduction of their new Indigenous MSW program they are making some strong steps to adding diverse voices to their student population and educators. 
    Second sidenote: From your experience in these forums, any idea why it's so quiet this year? I'm interested in seeing if applications are down this year. 
  14. Upvote
    Dry_Guy reacted to MSW&MD in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    The most informative posts from last year in regard to York vs U of T MSW Program
    On 3/16/2016 at 1:13 PM, serendipitous22 said:
    Hi everyone. I'm currently in the MSW program at York University. I remember very well what it was like to repeatedly check my email and the various online application systems, and my mailbox... for those of you who are still waiting, hang in there! I wanted to share some information about my program that I wish I had known when I was applying, and when I was making my decision.

    To be completely fair, here is a brief overview of the type of person that I think would be a good fit for the York MSW program:
    - You are very interested in critical social work theories, including Marxism, critical race theory, feminism, queer theory, critical disability studies, etc. (*York does not yet have a strong Indigenous component to the program. UVic is excellent at this if that's what you're looking for. Arguably we should all be looking for this, but I digress.)
    - You did a BSW that heavily focussed on clinical skills OR somehow have clinical skills already. In this instance, I actually think York would be a really good complement to your existing skills.
    - You want to do macro or meso level social work practice, such as: community work, grassroots activism/organizing, research, group work, programming. York is a good choice for this as it focuses on critical social work practice, which translates well into macro/meso social work practice.
    - You want to do a PhD and are very interested in theory and want to write a major research paper. U of T limits the number of students who can do a thesis, so York would be a good choice for you as every student needs to write a practice-based research paper (same as a major research paper; note that a PRP is shorter than a Master's thesis) and this is a requirement for many PhD programs.

    Unfortunately for me, I don't fall into any of these categories and I have been disappointed with the program. I'm writing this in the hopes that you will have a bit more information than I did when making an admissions decision. There are a total of 20 students in my cohort/class, and we have had many extensive discussions as a group about our shared frustration and disappointment with the curriculum, faculty, and department. I would estimate that: 3-4 students have seriously considered dropping out or transferring (including me), 10-12 actively and vocally dislike/resent/are disappointed with the program, and 5-6 aren't happy or satisfied but are committed to just getting it over with. There isn't a single person in my cohort that has expressed basic satisfaction - let alone enthusiasm - for any aspect of the program, aside from the funding package (more on that later).
    There were some 'rumours' that went around the forum during my application year that I can now comment on based on my own experience. York does not have established relationships with key clinical practicum agencies in the GTA. York has good relationships with a lot of agencies that would interest you if you're interested in community work, policy, research, or activism/organizing. U of T has exclusivity agreements with many clinical agencies, meaning that the agency agrees to only take on U of T students. These include many hospitals or clinical facilities such as Hincks-Dellcrest, CAMH, and the University Hospital Network. Aside from these exclusivity agreements, many clinical/counselling agencies will not accept placement applications from York students. There ARE some exceptions to this rule, but everyone at York who wants to go into clinical/counselling work then has to compete against each other (and students from other schools) to get those limited placement positions. Generally speaking it is true that U of T has a lockdown on key clinical placement sites.

    If you have ANY interest in doing clinical work (counselling, working in a hospital, crisis work, trauma work, individual/family/couples/group therapy), and you are seriously considering attending another program, go there instead of York. This is the bottom line.

    Secondly, even if you feel optimistic about securing one of the few clinical placements available, you should know that York does not teach any clinical or practical skills. I knew this when I was applying, but I didn't REALLY understand it. Examples of skills or clinical topics that you will not learn at York include:  developing a therapeutic alliance (this term is never used at York), building trust and rapport, phases or stages of a counselling relationship, communication skills (open-ended questions, active listening, reframing, summarizing), assessment skills, documentation skills, treatment planning, crisis intervention, counselling theories, counselling methods, ANYTHING related to mental health conditions (signs, symptoms, therapies).... you get it. There is one class on group facilitation and one class on narrative therapy (the only counselling course); both are electives.

    This is because York's MSW programs draw on a wholly different knowledge base than U of T, or other clinical programs. Critical social work draws on critical social theories, like Marxism, feminism, critical race theory, queer theory, critical disability studies, etc. U of T's social work program primarily draws on psychology, the medical model, and psychotherapy as a knowledge base. This is why York's mission statement and admissions process emphasis anti-oppression and social justice, and U of T's mission statement and admissions process emphasize research, "clinical" practice, and evidence-based treatment.

    To illustrate this difference, U of T offers classes on Social Work Practice in Mental Health, Social Work Practice with Individuals and Families, Advanced Social Work Practice in Mental Health, and electives related to trauma, counselling theories, cyber-counselling, child and adolescent trauma.... etc. York offers classes called Critical Perspectives in Mental Health and Critical Social Work Theories and Practice Skills. In the latter, you will learn about how and why various therapies (e.g. CBT, solution-focussed, strengths approach) are inherently problematic. You will not learn how to practice any of these therapies, OR even learn how they are done. You will also not learn how to practice any alternative treatments (in fact, you would never ever say 'treatment' at York). York focuses on critical and structural social work, so their critique of CBT, for example, would be that CBT individualizes a person's symptoms (let's say anxiety) instead of looking at the structural and contextual factors (e.g. the person who feels anxious is a racialized person living in poverty and on the brink of homelessness, so York might say that instead of medication and CBT, we should advocate for affordable housing and a guaranteed annual income). This is IMPORTANT and I have valued this, but I am not better prepared to work with someone with anxiety (meaning I still have no clue what to do). (This is why I imagine that a clinical BSW + a York MSW could be a good combination).

    So, many of us are stuck and eager to wrap up the program. Some students are doing external training - which, by the way, is incredibly expensive (a one day workshop ranges from $300-$500 and a certificate course in CBT could be $2000). Don't bother thinking, "Oh I'll just take electives at U of T", because there is only a very, very, very miniscule chance that you will be allowed to do so.

    One redeeming aspect of the York MSW program is its generous funding package. If finances are an issue for you, then it's worth seriously considering attending York as the funding packages are generous. In the 2-year program everyone gets a $15,000 package ($9,000 in Year 1 through a graduate assistantship (which requires 5 hours work/week) and other money, and $6000 in Year 2 through a research assistantship which doesn't require any work). If you get a York Graduate Scholarship then you get $6000 on top of this package. You will get all of this information in your acceptance letter. York also has very low tuition at roughly $1800 per semester. By comparison, the tuition at U of T is TREMENDOUSLY higher and they don't offer any funding packages. ** This is not inconsequential and despite everything else I've said, the money makes a huge difference **
    /end rant

    BEST OF LUCK to all of you. I know this is a stressful time -- hang in there! I hope you all end up at a school that is a good fit for you personally and professionally.
     
    As a master of social work student at York University, I feel compelled to comment on the quoted post. I feel that there are a lot of assumptions in this post that are in contradiction with social work values and demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the profession.
    First of all, I would like to state that, prior to commencing my MSW studies, I was highly suspicious of all two-year MSW programs and saw (and continue to see) them as an outgrowth of the neoliberal academy. I do not think two years of MSW education can adequately capture the rich learning that occurs during the years it takes to complete a BSW and gain practice experience. Through my work experience, I have encountered several graduates of two-year MSW programs and despite holding a higher-level social work degree, they seemed to lack social work knowledge and uncritically accepted medical knowledge (i.e. “clinical” knowledge) as superior to social justice perspectives, which is the heart of social work.
    I was pleasantly challenged by some of the 2-Year MSW cohort at York and found many of these students do share a similar knowledge and value base, such as that which is cultivated at the BSW level. That being said, I find that they tend to be self-conscious about not having enough practice experience and often express that they do not learn “clinical” skills (this word is thrown around a lot to discursively align social work with medicine). The skills discussed in the quoted post are fairly basic and although reviewed at the BSW program, they are acquired through direct practice.I continue to encounter many of the UFT 2 year MSW students and they are hopelessly ignorant and come from erroneous backgrounds (ex. Real estate, Business, Neuroscience, and Psychology). UFT 2 Year MSW students and graduates tend to uphold neoliberal values in their practice and tend to align with medical and business (cost-saving) models rather than social work.

    It's true that York does not have a lot of partnerships as UFT has unfairly made a market. That being said, as I am nearing the end of the MSW program, I find that when I am contacted by employers, they have told me that they were interested because I also hold a BSW and have some experience, and not necessarily because of my practicum or school.
    I do not really have any suggestions to offer. I think that although York University’s Two-Year MSW program fosters a critical foundation for students, many would benefit by completing a BSW first to gain some foundational skills. I don't think UFT's Two-Year MSW program fosters the foundation that a BSW programs would provide and they would benefit from a BSW as well. You also have to wonder about equity issues as well; the Two Year MSW programs at both UFT and York are dominated by white people; this is not the case in the 1 year MSW program at York and Ryerson. I am glad  that York limits the number of 2 Year MSW students they accept; the situation at UFT is quite uncontrolled and this has implications on the social work profession itself as we are flooded by those who think more like real estate agents, entrepreneurs, neuroscientists, and psychologists rather than social workers. 
    By the way, I am curious what program would constitute a “clinical BSW”? All accredited BSWs are regulated by the CASWE and from my conversation with other holders of BSWs, the programs are similar in structure. 
     
    May 29, 2016 by cupcake 
  15. Upvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from MSW&MD in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    ha! smart folks. 
  16. Upvote
    Dry_Guy reacted to MSW&MD in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    Not sure why  this forum is so quiet this year... maybe more people decide go for medical school instead of doing  MSW ? lol
  17. Upvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from MSW&MD in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    I'm sorry to hear about your field placement experience. I understand what you mean though about not caring for their pedagogical approach. To be honest, I struggled with applying to an MSW school that aligned with my personal values. Unfortunately, each school it seems is very polarizing. After much thinking, I had to acknowledge a clinical-focus is what I require to advance my career and professional development. Sidenote though: I am often left scratching my head when I see schools of social work teaching clinical practices rooted in the dated medical model. :/ 
    It is my hope after U of T's assessment report, and the introduction of their new Indigenous MSW program they are making some strong steps to adding diverse voices to their student population and educators. 
    Second sidenote: From your experience in these forums, any idea why it's so quiet this year? I'm interested in seeing if applications are down this year. 
  18. Upvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from tnt92 in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    * McMSW = McDonalidzation of social work education, the trend in which schools of social work are trying to cram five years of social work education into a cheapened two year program. This statement and above facts all day!
    It is incredibly infuriating to spend 4 years learning about social work theories, practices, tools, critically thinking about the the impacts of neoliberalism on individuals and society, completing practicums, unpacking yours and others sh!t (if you're offended by this statement, you will probably struggle in the program because there is a lot of sh!t you will witness once the topics of white privilege and white supremacy, whiteness are discussed in social work, but i digress)  and then seeing it get lost in a 2 year MSW program. Adding insult to the injury is then those 2 year MSW program graduates go out into the world, often with no strong foundation in social work theories and struggle with the true values of social work (i'm not saying all, but definitely many). If you really are a social worker (undergrad or not) you will not struggle with these concepts as your experience in the field will have made it abundantly clear the numerous ways in which systemic racism and oppression clearly exist in our society and how the system is truly rigged to continues marginalizing those who are most vulnerable. Access to opportunities is a privilege. Hard work is hard work.  You will know the importance of advocacy work and how integral it is the work social workers do. They don't just help people. They are advocates too. It is at the core of the profession. Unfortunately understanding this sometimes takes more than 2 years and for schools such as u of t reminding students of this may not be a part of their agenda. 
     
    I originally asked the question about diversity because i had heard from a handful of MSW graduates from Toronto, who are both people of colour and not people of colour,  and almost all described the campus, institution and education much as Yweang described it as. I had also seen the above statistics when researching the program (albeit difficult to find) and was curious if the questionnaire arose as a way to assist in addressing the issue of lack of diversity in the classroom and research labs.
    I mentioned in an earlier post, but will repeat again here I have also heard many people in the last 2-3  years mention their frustration with these very things and that many graduates discussed these concerns with the administration in their program reviews and  spoke with with program directors, however not much has changed. Reading the MSW message from the dean and the reality at u of t is incredibly ironic......based on the many lived experiences of both white and non-white graduates i have spoken too and heard about. Am hoping for the possibility of changes in the next year...but alas the issue of the The mcMSW degree exists.....
     
    All that being said, thank you for sharing your thoughts everyone. It is much appreciated. The lack of diversity at u of t is a big issue as the school holds a strong monopoly with partnerships in the community and is one of the few 'clinical' school in the province. The lack of diverse opinions, faces and experiences (both white and non-white) impacts the opinions, discussions and critical thinking that takes places and the ways in which interventions are being developed...it's too important to simply dismiss as a 'racist statement against white people'. The issue is far more complex and quite frankly rather insulting to simply call it racist. 
  19. Downvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from .letmeinplz// in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    * McMSW = McDonalidzation of social work education, the trend in which schools of social work are trying to cram five years of social work education into a cheapened two year program. This statement and above facts all day!
    It is incredibly infuriating to spend 4 years learning about social work theories, practices, tools, critically thinking about the the impacts of neoliberalism on individuals and society, completing practicums, unpacking yours and others sh!t (if you're offended by this statement, you will probably struggle in the program because there is a lot of sh!t you will witness once the topics of white privilege and white supremacy, whiteness are discussed in social work, but i digress)  and then seeing it get lost in a 2 year MSW program. Adding insult to the injury is then those 2 year MSW program graduates go out into the world, often with no strong foundation in social work theories and struggle with the true values of social work (i'm not saying all, but definitely many). If you really are a social worker (undergrad or not) you will not struggle with these concepts as your experience in the field will have made it abundantly clear the numerous ways in which systemic racism and oppression clearly exist in our society and how the system is truly rigged to continues marginalizing those who are most vulnerable. Access to opportunities is a privilege. Hard work is hard work.  You will know the importance of advocacy work and how integral it is the work social workers do. They don't just help people. They are advocates too. It is at the core of the profession. Unfortunately understanding this sometimes takes more than 2 years and for schools such as u of t reminding students of this may not be a part of their agenda. 
     
    I originally asked the question about diversity because i had heard from a handful of MSW graduates from Toronto, who are both people of colour and not people of colour,  and almost all described the campus, institution and education much as Yweang described it as. I had also seen the above statistics when researching the program (albeit difficult to find) and was curious if the questionnaire arose as a way to assist in addressing the issue of lack of diversity in the classroom and research labs.
    I mentioned in an earlier post, but will repeat again here I have also heard many people in the last 2-3  years mention their frustration with these very things and that many graduates discussed these concerns with the administration in their program reviews and  spoke with with program directors, however not much has changed. Reading the MSW message from the dean and the reality at u of t is incredibly ironic......based on the many lived experiences of both white and non-white graduates i have spoken too and heard about. Am hoping for the possibility of changes in the next year...but alas the issue of the The mcMSW degree exists.....
     
    All that being said, thank you for sharing your thoughts everyone. It is much appreciated. The lack of diversity at u of t is a big issue as the school holds a strong monopoly with partnerships in the community and is one of the few 'clinical' school in the province. The lack of diverse opinions, faces and experiences (both white and non-white) impacts the opinions, discussions and critical thinking that takes places and the ways in which interventions are being developed...it's too important to simply dismiss as a 'racist statement against white people'. The issue is far more complex and quite frankly rather insulting to simply call it racist. 
  20. Upvote
    Dry_Guy got a reaction from MSW&MD in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    * McMSW = McDonalidzation of social work education, the trend in which schools of social work are trying to cram five years of social work education into a cheapened two year program. This statement and above facts all day!
    It is incredibly infuriating to spend 4 years learning about social work theories, practices, tools, critically thinking about the the impacts of neoliberalism on individuals and society, completing practicums, unpacking yours and others sh!t (if you're offended by this statement, you will probably struggle in the program because there is a lot of sh!t you will witness once the topics of white privilege and white supremacy, whiteness are discussed in social work, but i digress)  and then seeing it get lost in a 2 year MSW program. Adding insult to the injury is then those 2 year MSW program graduates go out into the world, often with no strong foundation in social work theories and struggle with the true values of social work (i'm not saying all, but definitely many). If you really are a social worker (undergrad or not) you will not struggle with these concepts as your experience in the field will have made it abundantly clear the numerous ways in which systemic racism and oppression clearly exist in our society and how the system is truly rigged to continues marginalizing those who are most vulnerable. Access to opportunities is a privilege. Hard work is hard work.  You will know the importance of advocacy work and how integral it is the work social workers do. They don't just help people. They are advocates too. It is at the core of the profession. Unfortunately understanding this sometimes takes more than 2 years and for schools such as u of t reminding students of this may not be a part of their agenda. 
     
    I originally asked the question about diversity because i had heard from a handful of MSW graduates from Toronto, who are both people of colour and not people of colour,  and almost all described the campus, institution and education much as Yweang described it as. I had also seen the above statistics when researching the program (albeit difficult to find) and was curious if the questionnaire arose as a way to assist in addressing the issue of lack of diversity in the classroom and research labs.
    I mentioned in an earlier post, but will repeat again here I have also heard many people in the last 2-3  years mention their frustration with these very things and that many graduates discussed these concerns with the administration in their program reviews and  spoke with with program directors, however not much has changed. Reading the MSW message from the dean and the reality at u of t is incredibly ironic......based on the many lived experiences of both white and non-white graduates i have spoken too and heard about. Am hoping for the possibility of changes in the next year...but alas the issue of the The mcMSW degree exists.....
     
    All that being said, thank you for sharing your thoughts everyone. It is much appreciated. The lack of diversity at u of t is a big issue as the school holds a strong monopoly with partnerships in the community and is one of the few 'clinical' school in the province. The lack of diverse opinions, faces and experiences (both white and non-white) impacts the opinions, discussions and critical thinking that takes places and the ways in which interventions are being developed...it's too important to simply dismiss as a 'racist statement against white people'. The issue is far more complex and quite frankly rather insulting to simply call it racist. 
  21. Upvote
    Dry_Guy reacted to cupcake in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2016 admissions   
    As a master of social work student at York University, I feel compelled to comment on the quoted post. I feel that there are a lot of assumptions in this post that are in contradiction with social work values and demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the profession.
    First of all, I would like to state that, prior to commencing my MSW studies, I was highly suspicious of all two-year MSW programs and saw (and continue to see) them as an outgrowth of the neoliberal academy. I do not think two years of MSW education can adequately capture the rich learning that occurs during the years it takes to complete a BSW and gain practice experience. Through my work experience, I have encountered several graduates of two-year MSW programs and despite holding a higher-level social work degree, they seemed to lack social work knowledge and uncritically accepted medical knowledge (i.e. “clinical” knowledge) as superior to social justice perspectives, which is the heart of social work.
    I was pleasantly challenged by some of the 2-Year MSW cohort at York and found many of these students do share a similar knowledge and value base, such as that which is cultivated at the BSW level. That being said, I find that they tend to be self-conscious about not having enough practice experience and often express that they do not learn “clinical” skills (this word is thrown around a lot to discursively align social work with medicine). The skills discussed in the quoted post are fairly basic and although reviewed at the BSW program, they are acquired through direct practice.I continue to encounter many of the UFT 2 year MSW students and they are hopelessly ignorant and come from erroneous backgrounds (ex. Real estate, Business, Neuroscience, and Psychology). UFT 2 Year MSW students and graduates tend to uphold neoliberal values in their practice and tend to align with medical and business (cost-saving) models rather than social work.

    It's true that York does not have a lot of partnerships as UFT has unfairly made a market. That being said, as I am nearing the end of the MSW program, I find that when I am contacted by employers, they have told me that they were interested because I also hold a BSW and have some experience, and not necessarily because of my practicum or school.
    I do not really have any suggestions to offer. I think that although York University’s Two-Year MSW program fosters a critical foundation for students, many would benefit by completing a BSW first to gain some foundational skills. I don't think UFT's Two-Year MSW program fosters the foundation that a BSW programs would provide and they would benefit from a BSW as well. You also have to wonder about equity issues as well; the Two Year MSW programs at both UFT and York are dominated by white people; this is not the case in the 1 year MSW program at York and Ryerson. I am glad  that York limits the number of 2 Year MSW students they accept; the situation at UFT is quite uncontrolled and this has implications on the social work profession itself as we are flooded by those who think more like real estate agents, entrepreneurs, neuroscientists, and psychologists rather than social workers. 
    By the way, I am curious what program would constitute a “clinical BSW”? All accredited BSWs are regulated by the CASWE and from my conversation with other holders of BSWs, the programs are similar in structure. 
  22. Upvote
    Dry_Guy reacted to cupcake in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    Clearly, you are a social work n00b (Let me guess, you are an applicant to a 2 year McMSW* program?). Within the social work community, UFT Factor Inwentash school of social work is known to be notoriously white and not very inclusive of many marginalized communities. It is even acknowledged in UFT's most recent self-assessment (http://socialwork.utoronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/UTQAP-Self-Study-Final-September-2014.pdf pg. 144). The appendices of this self-assessment report note the overrepresentation of white female social work students:
    The MSW program especially welcomes applications from visible minority groups, Aboriginal persons, and persons with disabilities; however, the desired diversification and similarity to the population of the Greater Toronto area was not evident among the MSW students with whom we met, who were predominantly young white females
    ( http://socialwork.utoronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/UTQAP-APPENDICES-PDF-KW-revision-page-3.pdf, pg 5). 
    The school acknowledges that there is a gap between who they invite to the table and who actually gets to dine.
    But... as soon as I saw a glimmer of critical thinking and reflexivity at UFT's school of social work, I went on to read  the school's insinuation that men are oppressed in social work (http://socialwork.utoronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/UTQAP-APPENDICES-PDF-KW-revision-page-3.pdf,; pg 3). [face palm]. 
     
    * McMSW = McDonalidzation of social work education, the trend in which schools of social work are trying to cram five years of social work education into a cheapened two year program.
  23. Upvote
    Dry_Guy reacted to MSW&MD in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    I did my undergrad there, I took two clinical courses at Factor-Inwentash Faculty of Social Work and I did one collaborative research project with a U of T professor .  It was  my personal impression that the school is not as racially/culturally diverse as it claimed to be . Having said that, I really don't care about U of T MSW 's dominant pedagogical approach or its hegemonic discourse of institutional Whiteness; I don't lecture people on which school is better for them and which one is not; after all, we are all adults and we use our subjective judgement to make the best choice. I am just sharing my experience on the topic of diversity  to someone who is interested know, if you find this topic to be  offensive, then please ignore my thread.  Thanks and cheer
  24. Downvote
    Dry_Guy reacted to .letmeinplz// in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    His racism against white people aside, I was curious and looked at the diversity numbers for Toronto (most every school keeps these). If you look at their Reports and Accountability page and read the Performance Indicator 2015 PDF you find that UoT has "The proportion of students, first and senior year, who reported that they are part of a visible minority is increasing at the University of Toronto and is higher than Canadian peer institutions." This also held true for first-generation students...
    Not sure how well someone will do in graduate programs when they use anecdotal "man I saw some white people" experience vs real data but that is just me...
  25. Upvote
    Dry_Guy reacted to MSW&MD in Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2017 admissions   
    Based on my experience, U of T MSW is one of the whitest school in Ontario, and I am not just talking about ethnicity of the students there , but the school culture in general. I would be very cautious to answer the diversity questionnares and ensure they don't sound " too critical "  or " too postmodern".
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