Jae B.

If all your credentials are good then I can think of one of three main reasons:

- Luck: you applied to a very small number of schools; maybe you would have made it another year but this year money was tight. Or maybe you made it to the final list but then didn't get chosen for a random reason...these things happen.

- SOP: I understand your lit professor says its a "kick butt essay," but is that really the right person to ask? Did you consult with people in the field you're applying to in order to make sure you're communicating effectively--getting across everything adcoms in your field want to hear, using the right lingo, talking the way they except about you post-graduation goals? Applying to professional programs is very different than applying to a MA/PhD in a research-oriented field, so you might not have been getting good advice if you were relying on a research professor in another field as your mentor. This point extends to your CV and any other essay you had to write for admissions--look at them again critically and ask yourself whether or not they effectively got across who you are as a person, what your goals are, what your strengths are, why you chose to apply to the schools you did, etc.

- Age/experience: I'm no expert but I wouldn't be surprised if professional programs like the MSW prefer to admit people with a little more life experience than just highschool-->college-->grad school. Maybe your volunteer experience just wasn't enough, or wasn't what they were looking for. Sometimes younger applicants can be very naive about what they will get out of their education and how the world looks outside of school. You could spend this year getting a bit more "real life" experience and correcting this problem (if you have it).

Good luck!

Hello all you MSW hopefuls! So I am just looking out there to see if anyone else has had the same experience as I have. I applied to U Washington, USC, and Portland State. I was trying to get into the program straight away from my undergrad. I thought that I had done enough to get in! I have been a volunteer with disadvantaged people for 5 years now, I have a 3.5, a kick butt essay (says my lit professor), and glowing LOR's. SO, then why have I been rejected from PSU, waitlisted at U Washington, and have yet to hear from USC?? I have worked so hard, I just don't understand.
Of course I have not lost hope, I will work for awhile and then reapply. I am just trying to see the positive in this. I'm not trying to be dramatic..I know this isn't the worst thing ever and may be a blessing in disguise..I was just wondering if anyone could shed some light on this for me..

Differences in time commitment and effort vary by program and even university. Some programs require 12 hours of clocked work outside of teaching and others require as many as 20. Non-teaching assistantships can also have varying degrees of responsibility. Mine is non-teaching and I'm required to work 16 hours a week. However, I have colleagues who assist with grading and research and only work 12 hours a week.

If you can get a TA, take it. My field is educational technology. We're in the Ed Psych department. However, I have a classmate who teaches Japanese over in the Comp Lit department, because he's fluent. Another student teaches freshman Psych, because her B.A. is in Psychology. In a time where funding cutbacks are affecting every program, don't limit your options. Shop around.

DEFINITELY get a stronger letter from an industrial supervisor instead of a crappy one from a prof who doesn't know you well. It will be glaringly obvious who really knows you and how you work. The requirements depend from school to school, but usually for mine they asked for at least one academic recommendation, and the rest had to be from people in the field. I used 2 professors and 1 supervisor from industry, and got into top 20 schools in my programs.

I would be slightly concerned about the length of your relationship with your recommenders though. If you look at the recommendation form, they almost always ask how long they have known you, and at the time that they write the recommendations, the internship supervisor and research project advisor sound like they will have only worked with you for a few months. So just be wary of that, and review all your options. If you don't have anyone else that you can ask (were you close with any profs at your Community College? I think the quality of the letter and their relationships with you is more important than where they teach), then just you REALLY have to work your butt off to build a personal relationship with them, so it doesn't sound like a generic letter of rec. This is also hard though, because some people are hard to get to know that fast.

After writing this I feel like I sound like a Debbie Downer! But truly, it sounds to me like you have a good shot, you just need to be aware of where you need to improve your application. Good luck!

I have a hard time understanding this I guess, if I got into a top school in my field without funding I would do everything in my power to go. Why can't people just take out loans? If it's really a great school then the assumption is that you'll be able to find well-paid employment after you graduate so you'll be able to pay off the loans. Certainly your employment options will be better if you attend the top school than if you settle for someplace less prestigious, isn't that part of the allure of the top school? I guess I feel like if you only get one life and one shot at it, why not go for the gold?

You might want to ask in the Philosophy forum and/or one of the other Humanities sub-forums.

Hi Napoleon,
Our policy is that we do not delete threads.

Cheers,
rising_star
Forum Administrator

Well I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was simply offering a different point of view. I meant it to be positive in that I think people should try to go to the best place possible if they get in. "You're only at the Master's level" sounds pretty mean and condescending. You seem to think you're better than me because you're at the PhD level (or so I can assume). So even if you do get over it I'm really not interested in what someone with that attitude has to say, so save it.

I guess I got my answer as to if Master's programs or unfunded acceptances were looked down upon. How sad.

My application experience has proven that a school's brand name matters quite a bit. I went to a lowly ranked undergrad/MBA before applying to PhD. My resume would show that I'm a hard worker, I have very well written SOP's, fairly well thought out research ideas, glowing recommendations, and competitive test scores. I was not offered a single interview, much less admit, by any top 20 PhD program. After speaking with some of the faculty at these programs, it seemed like I passed all the initial screening rounds on paper, but none of the schools were willing to take a chance on me because of the signal that a poorly ranked undergraduate institution sends.

I was accepted by every school that offered an interview. At each of those interviews, the interviewer's first matter of concern was my academic pedigree. These questions usually started with, "you have great GMAT's, why did you attend xxxx?" Directly related to this concern were the concerns about the rigor of my academic preparation. In short, if you went to a school with a good brand name, you won't be subjected to these doubts during the admissions decision that can lead to cognitive biases, i.e. halo effect.

Some places have rules against professors accepting gifts from students, especially before they have submitted all their grades. If you're not depending on your writers for grades, then there shouldn't be any official trouble with your giving them a gift. Regardless, though, I personally think the best thing to give is a thoughtful hand-written card. I know a lot of professors who keep those cards for years. Same goes for a class you enjoyed - it's heart warming to get a thank you email from a student. I don't think anything more than than is ever required, or even expected. Of course, to some extent it depends on the kind of relationship you have with the professor, but again, I always opt for a card and it's never failed me so far.

Hi Kandeya,

Usually people start looking for housing a month or two prior to the fall semester. I did spend the $20 for cal rentals and depending on your needs and budget, it can be useful. I found a place through there and would recommend at least checking it out once. C'mon, $20 won't kill you (though it can take away a week's worth of grocery) haha.

P.S. Make sure you're an informed renter. Ask ALL the basics such as: rent, deposit, lease term, parking, utilities (included or not), size of room, internet, etc. Generally speaking, I am more in favor of the people who show lots of pics of the rental place (means more or less they've got nothing to hide).

Talk about a great point. Can you imagine how much better America might get along if we were forced to get to know each other on a case by case basis, without the "aid" of polarizing labels and unfair characterizations (of both sides) by the mainstream media?

My experience as the liberal odd duck wasn't in an academic environment, but rather as the extremely liberal girlfriend of a guy with an extremely conservative extended family-- still a lot of pressure, especially since I was staying with all of them during a long vacation. I learned a couple of lessons that might help you weather the significantly longer challenge you're about to face:

1.) Resist the urge to bait others about their beliefs unless you are prepared for the possibility of an argument, ill-will, being humiliated or ostracized, etc. Choose your battles.

2.) If YOU are the one being baited, resist the urge to escalate the interaction. Keep a level-head and express your beliefs with sincerity (not sarcasm); be a good representative of the ideology you espouse.

3.) Be prepared to answer questions, clearly and pleasantly, in case someone is legitimately curious or if you are in a situation where not answering the question (or answering it poorly) would be a mark against you or your beliefs.

4.) Most of the people you meet will believe as firmly in their ideology as you believe in yours. It's taken them years to develop their ideas and sentiments, so don't expect to "convert" people simply because you believe they are mistaken or misguided. Feel free to relish in small victories, but be realistic about your ability to start some sort of revolution on campus.

I'm sure you'll find some other people who run along the same political/social lines as yourself. Even the most conservative campus will have its contingent of outliers. Find some campus groups, have lunch together, do some volunteering-- you'll find your own little pocket of acceptance, and with luck it will get bigger over time.

Georgetown does have a better-known linguistics-department than UW does, but really, I don't think you can go wrong either way. They both sound like really good bets (I know undergrad linguists at both places, and they've all been very happy with their departments), and DC and Seattle are both great cities. (Is climate an important factor for you? Seattle's lovely, but it gets six months of rain in the winter with hardly a single break; DC is also lovely, but its summers are hot and very humid.) Though since you don't know whether your interests might change, I'd be tempted to favour the cheaper option, as BKMD said; that way, you'll be able to put more money aside for a Ph.D. if you decide to go that route. Anyway, good luck!

I completely agree with this. I think it is really important to get research experience as soon as you can- I was able to start my freshman year and it gave me the chance to try working in several different types of labs. Moreover, as sesquipedale said, if you start early in your undergrad career in a lab and stick with it, you will have the time to develop some valuable technical skills that can make you an even more attractive candidate when you go to apply to grad school. Profs who are choosing between candidates how have similar 'numbers' (GPA GRE etc...) are likely to favor a candidate who won't need a long training period just to be 'caught up to speed' on research techniques.

Summer research programs are another reason to consider starting at a research university right away- these programs are something you generally apply for your sophomore or junior year and not only look great on grad apps, but can be really fun, and rewarding experiences (both in terms of intellectual and personal development). I am not sure how it works to apply for these programs from community colleges, but if you have already been working in a lab for a little while, I believe you have a much chance at getting one.

Again, it does come down to financial realities- it's never a good idea to put yourself massively in debt, so if money will be a major problem CC may be a great option. However, another thing to consider is that starting research experience early really gives you a leg up in finding scholarships/fellowships both during your undergrad career. It will also help you get in to more competitive graduate programs- programs which generally have more and better funding for students. So in short going to a CC for your first couple of years could potentially be penny wise but pound foolish: if you want to go to top grad programs, and you are aggressive about finding research and funding opportunities, starting your career at a research university could ultimately be the prudent choice.

tldr; starting research your freshman/sophomore year can be invaluable; bolstering your ability to get into grad school and secure funding during your undergrad and grad career.


*caveat- this was written from a more 'hard science' oriented perspective. It really depends on what type of field you think you might want to go in to.

I wouldn't sweat it. College is expensive and there is this illusion that floats around in guidance offices at high schools that "everyone can go where they want, there will be money for you everywhere and it will all work out." Then you 4-5 years later you graduate with tens of thousands of dollars in debt and wonder if you can even financially swing going to graduate school. you are being pragmatic.

Now if you need research experience for your prospective field- most kids don't know the first 2 years of school they want to be involved with that. In fact, I'd think it rather odd that a freshman just started doing research and didn't experience anything else outside of class for extracurriculars. It is going to be what you do with that time. So when you do transfer if you do need that kind of experience find a way to work your way up and make it count. In my experience most professors are really happy and surprised to have competent youngsters eager to get involved with all aspects of research. Tell them up front you know you have to do the basics, but you want to work your way up to whatever possible.

Bottom line,

Don't worry... your mother is smart.

Also, be receptive to the fact things change as you age. Just in my own life from the age of 18-20 I changed immensely and evolved so much as a person.

Lastly, there has to be a reason you want to go to grad school. I have had friends in love with the idea of higher education and being "more educated" than the rest, only to find they couldn't write out 3 reasons why they wanted to go to graduate school.

I was like that at 22. Now that I'm quite a bit older, I've found that the responsibility for making friends lies 100% in my court. I no longer wait to see if anyone approaches me; I approach them. I'm not saying it's easy for me (I'm an introvert if there ever was one), but I do it anyway because I like having friends. I'm not saying that some of them won't rebuff you. But you will have enough a success rate that you'll start a good core group of friends.



I'm the same way. Not pompous (I think), just into efficiency. Let's get the darn thing finished so we can get on with our lives!!

I included a recommendation from my favorite community college professor with both of my graduate school applications, and I was accepted to each school with competitive aid for master's programs. If you take your time in community college seriously, graduate schools will, too!

I graduated from high school with a 4.0. Then I spent two years in community college, taking aggressive course loads. My last semester was about 25 units, including chemistry -- not my cup of tea! Like you, I already knew I wanted to go to graduate school, so I participated in courses and activities related to my topic of interest in addition to my general education courses, even though many of those extra units would not transfer to a 4-year school. I graduated from community college with a 4.0.

I can't say my journey was without stumbles: Up until the beginning of my sophomore year, I planned to transfer to San José State University (for journalism and graphic design), but then I suddenly decided UC Berkeley was the only school for me (for media studies, American studies and public policy) -- right before applications were due. The CSU and UC systems have a few different transfer requirements and courses, and of course have different major requirements. I ended up taking all of my required transfer courses and major prerequisites for Berkeley in my last semester of community college -- so if admissions accepted me, it would be without knowing how well I did in the courses they cared about most, or if I'd manage to finish them all. I was so happy and relieved that they accepted me anyway!

I successfully transferred to UC Berkeley, and am graduating on-time as a double-major this semester (yay). So, if you plan carefully, you can go to community college, accomplish all you desire and still graduate in a 4-year time frame.

I wrote proudly of my experience in community college in both of my graduate school applications. And community college was a great experience for me. I never said I went there for financial reasons, because that was only a part of the value -- although I do have zero debt from college. Going to community college was an excellent beginning for me: I remained active and relevant in my locality -- where I plan to have my career -- and I made connections with people of different ages, life experiences, professional backgrounds and goals, and not just twenty-something academics.

Community college was relevant in my graduate school applications, because I did a lot of work towards my graduate school ambitions there.

My community college not only served as a great launching pad, it's also been a great support network for me. They awarded me a large transfer scholarship, and my work there helped me secure two other large renewable undergraduate scholarships. Many of my professors there still advise me today. A few of my community college friends transferred to Berkeley as well, so we have a community at Cal, too!

Heck, I include my community college A.A. degree in my e-mail signatures.

My advice to you is, make the most of your time anywhere, but only go somewhere you'll be proud of your work. If you go to community college, go the extra mile; challenge yourself inside and outside of your major fields. Think of it as a smorgasbord. Make yourself well-rounded. Take classes and do extracurricular activities related to your future graduate school interest. Build yourself a network of contacts related to your interest. Develop relationships with local scholarship programs, so you can afford to transfer. Try to take as many classes as possible for letter grades, to impress schools with your achievement and transparency. Use community college as your time to shine in a smaller circle. Respect it. Ace it.

In no way does community college rule out graduate school, as long as you excel there and at the 4-year you transfer to.

Good luck!

I'm going to make a point for the other side of the argument, just to balance things out a bit.

I also did 2 years of community college before transferring to a four-year. The biggest downside, at least for the field I am trying to break into (psychology), is that you only have two years to be a research assistant and gain experience that way, something vital for certain grad programs. It took me some time to find three great labs that had openings, so I was really only an RA for 1.5 years about. If I could do it all over, and I knew that I really wanted to get into grad school in psychology in advance (though, like others have said, it is pretty unlikely you will have that foresight just fresh out of high school, although some do) I would skip community college, if it was reasonable financially. So, I don't think grad schools will directly punish you for going to a CC, but, you may have less opportunities for research, which may or may not be important depending on your field. If research is important in your field, joining labs as a 1st or 2nd year will net you more experience and a higher chance at co-authored presentations and papers than entering as a 3rd year might.

This is not me, but someone post it in on our listserv.

http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/c3psy/cs_department_at_uic_wont_take_no_for_an_answer/

Looks like our school is still hungry for students. Not sure what's going on with all the rejection elsewhere.

If I enter academia, I will add my husband's name and make my middle name my middle initial. My current name is so common that I need a different surname to differentiate myself from the crowd!

For me, it's a professional consideration and an issue of convenience. For him, it's a matter of family identity and national pride. My hesitation to ask him to change his name is only a little bit influenced by a sense of tradition; it's mostly because he's a lot more attached to his name than I am to mine.

Edit: I can't help but look at what I wrote through a gender lens and ask myself if that is just Western society speaking through me-- that I am less attached to my own name than he is to his own. The truth is, I've NEVER been fond of my own name, or even my initials, and I used to fantasize about changing my name all the time. I still have a completely different pen name if I ever start publishing non-academically. I know I'm not the only person who dislikes their own name: a girl at work still has her heart set on being an actress/model, and she daydreams about new names constantly because her given surname strikes her as so awkward sounding and as something that doesn't match her personality.

Hmm. I am mainly familiar with the American grad school process and have no idea about European schools.

Perhaps it would be possible to defer your TU Vienna admission one year so you can apply and hear back from elsewhere?

Hello Grad Cafe Goers,

I was hoping to get some quick advice regarding my journey towards a PhD in an engineering-related field. I'm currently sitting on an offer for a funded PhD at TU Vienna, and I'm interviewing later this summer for a funded PhD at ETH Zurich.

Anyway the problem is that the offer from TU Vienna expires before my interview at ETH.

What is the optimal gambling strategy in this situation? Does anyone have any experiences to share regarding this type of gambling? Did it go well? Did it go horribly wrong and you regretted not taking the first offer?

I feel like my chances for acceptance at ETH are high. Originally ETH was going to pay for my flight (from Canada) to interview with them. Now they won't have to pay for it because I'll be in western Europe anyway presenting a recently accepted paper at an internationally competitive conference. This helps my application to ETH in two ways: (1) I'm saving the department money on an international flight; and (2) I'm the first author on a paper from a highly ranked conference in my field.

I mention this only to make the point that if ETH was interested in my application before my paper got accepted, they'll definitely be even more interested in my application now that my paper has been accepted.

I'm willing to turn down my offer at TU Vienna and hope for an offer from ETH unless someone on here talks me out of it

But what about the other American schools to which I haven't applied? My ideal school is Stanford, but the soonest I could apply would be December 2010. This would be long after any offer from ETH (which I don't even have yet) materialized. Should I turn down a potential offer from ETH just so I could apply to Stanford several months later and maybe get an interview?

Am I being stupid? Is this like one of those threads where the person is like "should I go into $100k of debt to do my MSc at Harvard or should I take the fully-funded PhD at Princeton?" If I get an offer from ETH for Fall 2010 should I just accept it and not try to get into a better American school for Fall 2011?



Here is my background in case it affects the optimal gambling strategy in this situation:

Accepted Publications: 1x first-author paper at a top international conference, 1x middle-author journal article in a top journal, 1x first-author poster at an international conference, 5x first-author posters at various regional conferences (one of which won a nationally-sponsored award for best poster).

Submitted Publications: 1x first-author American patent, 2x submitted posters at top international conferences.

Master's GPA: 3.85/4.00 from a top-200 university.
Undergrad GPA: 3.3/4.00 from a top-200 university.
GRE: not written yet, although I'm confident I could do well enough not to sink my application.

This is tricky. I think the key for the SoP is to mention it in a detached sort of way, and perhaps almost in passing. It shouldn't be emotional or a saga of overcoming adversity (although a personal history statement/diversity statement could lean more that way). But the fact is that your intellectual interests are informed by this experience, and thus I don't see why you should avoid it as part of the narrative of your intellectual development. So perhaps something like a one-sentence "As a first-generation college student and child of an immigrant coming from a background of habitual neighborhood violence, I became interested in learning about strategies and methods of creating more functional communities than the one I had grown up in." Obviously made to sound better, but you get the gist. See what I mean? Tell the story not as an end in itself, but as part of what motivates you to do the work you want to do.