GopherGrad

I think there are a lot of people, myself included, that haven't heard anything official.
 
 
 
Yes. And in Chicago.
 
And apparently in San Diego a totally unexpected run of 75 degree sunny days has converted all the freeways into roving beach parties. Total gridlock. Those miserable SOBs.

I think there are a lot of people, myself included, that haven't heard anything official.
 
 
 
Yes. And in Chicago.
 
And apparently in San Diego a totally unexpected run of 75 degree sunny days has converted all the freeways into roving beach parties. Total gridlock. Those miserable SOBs.

also can we take a moment to appreciate how silly and old the Massachusetts Institute of TECHNOLOGY's application site is?

I would never condone the use of the term "safety school" to disparage a program or the people attending and it's hard to imagine why it would be used here in any other way. A person's career aspirations are deeply personal and contextual. While I always, always counsel for a realistic apprasial of which investments will help meet those aspirations, it is not my place to question the validity of the goals themselves. If U of Bumblefuck's program offers you the opportunity to achieve a career and life that will make you happy, then your admission is to be celebrated and screw anyone that tells you otherwise.
 
This applies equally to people who apply only to the top ten, though. Speaking as someone who applied only among the twenty schools that consider themselves top ten, I can say that few programs of lower rank offer a high enough chance at landing my dream job to justify leaving my lucrative and established career. If I were 25 again I would doubtless be more willing to take risks to get the dream job and more satisfied if I fell a little bit short. But I am not 25 again and the five years it takes to get a PhD will set back my retirement plan fifteen. I'd better fucking love that job. My application strategy reflects my willingness to forego a PhD if I don't get admitted. It also reflects the well-researched conclusion that I have a higher chance of admission at a top program than the straight statistics suggest.
 
My strategy does not deny the stochastic nature of the application process. It also does not deny the extremely imperfect correlation between the rank or a program and the quality of the training it offers. And it absolutely does not pass judgment on the (hopefully well-considered) attempts of others to achieve the career objectives that are special to them.
 
I think as long as we all assume that we have each chosen to compete for the opportunities that can provide the lives we want, we can be happy for those that get admitted and commiserate with those that don't.

I would never condone the use of the term "safety school" to disparage a program or the people attending and it's hard to imagine why it would be used here in any other way. A person's career aspirations are deeply personal and contextual. While I always, always counsel for a realistic apprasial of which investments will help meet those aspirations, it is not my place to question the validity of the goals themselves. If U of Bumblefuck's program offers you the opportunity to achieve a career and life that will make you happy, then your admission is to be celebrated and screw anyone that tells you otherwise.
 
This applies equally to people who apply only to the top ten, though. Speaking as someone who applied only among the twenty schools that consider themselves top ten, I can say that few programs of lower rank offer a high enough chance at landing my dream job to justify leaving my lucrative and established career. If I were 25 again I would doubtless be more willing to take risks to get the dream job and more satisfied if I fell a little bit short. But I am not 25 again and the five years it takes to get a PhD will set back my retirement plan fifteen. I'd better fucking love that job. My application strategy reflects my willingness to forego a PhD if I don't get admitted. It also reflects the well-researched conclusion that I have a higher chance of admission at a top program than the straight statistics suggest.
 
My strategy does not deny the stochastic nature of the application process. It also does not deny the extremely imperfect correlation between the rank or a program and the quality of the training it offers. And it absolutely does not pass judgment on the (hopefully well-considered) attempts of others to achieve the career objectives that are special to them.
 
I think as long as we all assume that we have each chosen to compete for the opportunities that can provide the lives we want, we can be happy for those that get admitted and commiserate with those that don't.

I would never condone the use of the term "safety school" to disparage a program or the people attending and it's hard to imagine why it would be used here in any other way. A person's career aspirations are deeply personal and contextual. While I always, always counsel for a realistic apprasial of which investments will help meet those aspirations, it is not my place to question the validity of the goals themselves. If U of Bumblefuck's program offers you the opportunity to achieve a career and life that will make you happy, then your admission is to be celebrated and screw anyone that tells you otherwise.
 
This applies equally to people who apply only to the top ten, though. Speaking as someone who applied only among the twenty schools that consider themselves top ten, I can say that few programs of lower rank offer a high enough chance at landing my dream job to justify leaving my lucrative and established career. If I were 25 again I would doubtless be more willing to take risks to get the dream job and more satisfied if I fell a little bit short. But I am not 25 again and the five years it takes to get a PhD will set back my retirement plan fifteen. I'd better fucking love that job. My application strategy reflects my willingness to forego a PhD if I don't get admitted. It also reflects the well-researched conclusion that I have a higher chance of admission at a top program than the straight statistics suggest.
 
My strategy does not deny the stochastic nature of the application process. It also does not deny the extremely imperfect correlation between the rank or a program and the quality of the training it offers. And it absolutely does not pass judgment on the (hopefully well-considered) attempts of others to achieve the career objectives that are special to them.
 
I think as long as we all assume that we have each chosen to compete for the opportunities that can provide the lives we want, we can be happy for those that get admitted and commiserate with those that don't.

This is especially true if your undergrad was not in political science and you are (unknowingly) framing your very interesting research question poorly for consumption by political scientists.
 
 
To my understanding, both fit and yield concerns will sometimes cause schools to reject obviously qualified candidates.
 
For example, I assume that Duke hasn't gotten a hold of me because they know I'm a lock for Stanford.  kidding

This is especially true if your undergrad was not in political science and you are (unknowingly) framing your very interesting research question poorly for consumption by political scientists.
 
 
To my understanding, both fit and yield concerns will sometimes cause schools to reject obviously qualified candidates.
 
For example, I assume that Duke hasn't gotten a hold of me because they know I'm a lock for Stanford.  kidding

This is especially true if your undergrad was not in political science and you are (unknowingly) framing your very interesting research question poorly for consumption by political scientists.
 
 
To my understanding, both fit and yield concerns will sometimes cause schools to reject obviously qualified candidates.
 
For example, I assume that Duke hasn't gotten a hold of me because they know I'm a lock for Stanford.  kidding

This is especially true if your undergrad was not in political science and you are (unknowingly) framing your very interesting research question poorly for consumption by political scientists.
 
 
To my understanding, both fit and yield concerns will sometimes cause schools to reject obviously qualified candidates.
 
For example, I assume that Duke hasn't gotten a hold of me because they know I'm a lock for Stanford.  kidding

This is especially true if your undergrad was not in political science and you are (unknowingly) framing your very interesting research question poorly for consumption by political scientists.
 
 
To my understanding, both fit and yield concerns will sometimes cause schools to reject obviously qualified candidates.
 
For example, I assume that Duke hasn't gotten a hold of me because they know I'm a lock for Stanford.  kidding

This is especially true if your undergrad was not in political science and you are (unknowingly) framing your very interesting research question poorly for consumption by political scientists.
 
 
To my understanding, both fit and yield concerns will sometimes cause schools to reject obviously qualified candidates.
 
For example, I assume that Duke hasn't gotten a hold of me because they know I'm a lock for Stanford.  kidding

It is absolutely, positively appropriate to ask both the department and grad students about the specifics, including how many students get denied, whether the funding stays consistent if it is re-awarded and what the rubrics are for evaluating students after the three year mark. The risk of losing funding should discount the value of an offer you receive and it is important to understand the nature of the risk to apply the right discount.

LOL, just got really excited about a new email in spam folder...but I'm guessing U Chicago isn't trying to sell me "two smoking hot chicks in the pool".

Automated. Probably just a reminder. The timing really got my hopes up, though.
 
 
 
To my understanding, work experience really only helps your application to the extent it lowers the perception of your personal attrition risk.
 
Which points to the real reason your professors probably (and I certainly) advise waiting: it gives you perspective about your future, your career and your passion. Many people go to graduate and professional schools only to find that they don't like the work they were groomed to do. Often, a little work experience could have prevented this by providing some insight into the types of quality-of-life priotities that can and should help determine what career you want to pursue.

Automated. Probably just a reminder. The timing really got my hopes up, though.
 
 
 
To my understanding, work experience really only helps your application to the extent it lowers the perception of your personal attrition risk.
 
Which points to the real reason your professors probably (and I certainly) advise waiting: it gives you perspective about your future, your career and your passion. Many people go to graduate and professional schools only to find that they don't like the work they were groomed to do. Often, a little work experience could have prevented this by providing some insight into the types of quality-of-life priotities that can and should help determine what career you want to pursue.

Hardly.
 
Whippersnapper.

This is right. I know I've posted something similar before, but anyone who's had a job knows that dreams get crushed in the working world.
 
The PSJR board loves to use the "snowflake" trope. Ironically, all that crying and whining about how hard it is to be a grad student is just them failing to recognize that disappointment is not unique to social science PhDs. Guess what? You're not going to make partner at Sidley Austin or chief surgical resident at Cedar Sinai or be Daniel Day-Lewis's talent agent or the CEO of Coca-Cola, either.
 
There aren't very many jobs at the top of any field. The market is soft for everyone. The reality of being ambitious is that at some point you hit your ceiling. That's never easy and the worst of PSJR is one graceless way to react to it. For those of you that haven't worked or otherwise don't understand (from experience) what I'm talking about, remember this when you hit a wall: You can always drop out and manage a Starbuck's or become a lawyer if that's what you prefer to teaching at some forsaken LAC in western Kentucky. Seriously. Just know that no one is going to drop a ladder from the clouds for you there, either. The question, really, is whether, the consequence of reaching and falling short is worse than the consequence of not trying.
 
It seems like it was news to some PSJR posters that not everyone gets a TT offer at Harvard. Hopefully that's not the case here.

This is right. I know I've posted something similar before, but anyone who's had a job knows that dreams get crushed in the working world.
 
The PSJR board loves to use the "snowflake" trope. Ironically, all that crying and whining about how hard it is to be a grad student is just them failing to recognize that disappointment is not unique to social science PhDs. Guess what? You're not going to make partner at Sidley Austin or chief surgical resident at Cedar Sinai or be Daniel Day-Lewis's talent agent or the CEO of Coca-Cola, either.
 
There aren't very many jobs at the top of any field. The market is soft for everyone. The reality of being ambitious is that at some point you hit your ceiling. That's never easy and the worst of PSJR is one graceless way to react to it. For those of you that haven't worked or otherwise don't understand (from experience) what I'm talking about, remember this when you hit a wall: You can always drop out and manage a Starbuck's or become a lawyer if that's what you prefer to teaching at some forsaken LAC in western Kentucky. Seriously. Just know that no one is going to drop a ladder from the clouds for you there, either. The question, really, is whether, the consequence of reaching and falling short is worse than the consequence of not trying.
 
It seems like it was news to some PSJR posters that not everyone gets a TT offer at Harvard. Hopefully that's not the case here.

This is right. I know I've posted something similar before, but anyone who's had a job knows that dreams get crushed in the working world.
 
The PSJR board loves to use the "snowflake" trope. Ironically, all that crying and whining about how hard it is to be a grad student is just them failing to recognize that disappointment is not unique to social science PhDs. Guess what? You're not going to make partner at Sidley Austin or chief surgical resident at Cedar Sinai or be Daniel Day-Lewis's talent agent or the CEO of Coca-Cola, either.
 
There aren't very many jobs at the top of any field. The market is soft for everyone. The reality of being ambitious is that at some point you hit your ceiling. That's never easy and the worst of PSJR is one graceless way to react to it. For those of you that haven't worked or otherwise don't understand (from experience) what I'm talking about, remember this when you hit a wall: You can always drop out and manage a Starbuck's or become a lawyer if that's what you prefer to teaching at some forsaken LAC in western Kentucky. Seriously. Just know that no one is going to drop a ladder from the clouds for you there, either. The question, really, is whether, the consequence of reaching and falling short is worse than the consequence of not trying.
 
It seems like it was news to some PSJR posters that not everyone gets a TT offer at Harvard. Hopefully that's not the case here.

This is right. I know I've posted something similar before, but anyone who's had a job knows that dreams get crushed in the working world.
 
The PSJR board loves to use the "snowflake" trope. Ironically, all that crying and whining about how hard it is to be a grad student is just them failing to recognize that disappointment is not unique to social science PhDs. Guess what? You're not going to make partner at Sidley Austin or chief surgical resident at Cedar Sinai or be Daniel Day-Lewis's talent agent or the CEO of Coca-Cola, either.
 
There aren't very many jobs at the top of any field. The market is soft for everyone. The reality of being ambitious is that at some point you hit your ceiling. That's never easy and the worst of PSJR is one graceless way to react to it. For those of you that haven't worked or otherwise don't understand (from experience) what I'm talking about, remember this when you hit a wall: You can always drop out and manage a Starbuck's or become a lawyer if that's what you prefer to teaching at some forsaken LAC in western Kentucky. Seriously. Just know that no one is going to drop a ladder from the clouds for you there, either. The question, really, is whether, the consequence of reaching and falling short is worse than the consequence of not trying.
 
It seems like it was news to some PSJR posters that not everyone gets a TT offer at Harvard. Hopefully that's not the case here.

This is right. I know I've posted something similar before, but anyone who's had a job knows that dreams get crushed in the working world.
 
The PSJR board loves to use the "snowflake" trope. Ironically, all that crying and whining about how hard it is to be a grad student is just them failing to recognize that disappointment is not unique to social science PhDs. Guess what? You're not going to make partner at Sidley Austin or chief surgical resident at Cedar Sinai or be Daniel Day-Lewis's talent agent or the CEO of Coca-Cola, either.
 
There aren't very many jobs at the top of any field. The market is soft for everyone. The reality of being ambitious is that at some point you hit your ceiling. That's never easy and the worst of PSJR is one graceless way to react to it. For those of you that haven't worked or otherwise don't understand (from experience) what I'm talking about, remember this when you hit a wall: You can always drop out and manage a Starbuck's or become a lawyer if that's what you prefer to teaching at some forsaken LAC in western Kentucky. Seriously. Just know that no one is going to drop a ladder from the clouds for you there, either. The question, really, is whether, the consequence of reaching and falling short is worse than the consequence of not trying.
 
It seems like it was news to some PSJR posters that not everyone gets a TT offer at Harvard. Hopefully that's not the case here.

This is right. I know I've posted something similar before, but anyone who's had a job knows that dreams get crushed in the working world.
 
The PSJR board loves to use the "snowflake" trope. Ironically, all that crying and whining about how hard it is to be a grad student is just them failing to recognize that disappointment is not unique to social science PhDs. Guess what? You're not going to make partner at Sidley Austin or chief surgical resident at Cedar Sinai or be Daniel Day-Lewis's talent agent or the CEO of Coca-Cola, either.
 
There aren't very many jobs at the top of any field. The market is soft for everyone. The reality of being ambitious is that at some point you hit your ceiling. That's never easy and the worst of PSJR is one graceless way to react to it. For those of you that haven't worked or otherwise don't understand (from experience) what I'm talking about, remember this when you hit a wall: You can always drop out and manage a Starbuck's or become a lawyer if that's what you prefer to teaching at some forsaken LAC in western Kentucky. Seriously. Just know that no one is going to drop a ladder from the clouds for you there, either. The question, really, is whether, the consequence of reaching and falling short is worse than the consequence of not trying.
 
It seems like it was news to some PSJR posters that not everyone gets a TT offer at Harvard. Hopefully that's not the case here.

This is right. I know I've posted something similar before, but anyone who's had a job knows that dreams get crushed in the working world.
 
The PSJR board loves to use the "snowflake" trope. Ironically, all that crying and whining about how hard it is to be a grad student is just them failing to recognize that disappointment is not unique to social science PhDs. Guess what? You're not going to make partner at Sidley Austin or chief surgical resident at Cedar Sinai or be Daniel Day-Lewis's talent agent or the CEO of Coca-Cola, either.
 
There aren't very many jobs at the top of any field. The market is soft for everyone. The reality of being ambitious is that at some point you hit your ceiling. That's never easy and the worst of PSJR is one graceless way to react to it. For those of you that haven't worked or otherwise don't understand (from experience) what I'm talking about, remember this when you hit a wall: You can always drop out and manage a Starbuck's or become a lawyer if that's what you prefer to teaching at some forsaken LAC in western Kentucky. Seriously. Just know that no one is going to drop a ladder from the clouds for you there, either. The question, really, is whether, the consequence of reaching and falling short is worse than the consequence of not trying.
 
It seems like it was news to some PSJR posters that not everyone gets a TT offer at Harvard. Hopefully that's not the case here.

If its so bad out there...why not share their wisdom with us and let us know instead of making fun of us.

I mean really if there is asymmetric information, we should be informed before we make life changing decisions.

Ill tell you one thing my dad told me (a blue collar guy - Im the first in my fam to go/try to go to graduate school).."Once you get out here, a job is a job. You work 9-5, you come home, eat and go to sleep and get ready to do that all over again." That is what scares me. I did that last year. That's the only reason why I have not withdrawn my own applications. I mean even assuming the worst and we all end up on the Post-Doc circuit (I think I would rather be a post-doc than an adjunct)...I would rather know when I die I spent 5 years doing something I loved and studying something i was passionate about for free (or atleast less than 30k-Most im willing to pay)...That most people can say they have never done or wish they have. Its tough out there and I know the Shit Boomers are f*ing every one up by not retiring, but im young, (under 25) i can afford to take risks now, so why not?

As I write this, I am currently waiting out side the school gates waiting for the white smoke to come out to let me know they have made a decision