venusofwillendork

It sounds like you've made the right call -- and getting the MA will give you the opportunity to develop more connections that may help with PhD apps in the future. It does sound like you made the right call wrt your advisor: the period between your being accepted & your accepting their decision is a time when they *should* be most responsive, because they should be eager to please/convince you that they're the right program. If you're facing communication difficulties during that time... that's a red flag for how they'll be when you're trying to get chapter feedback down the line. As for risking your acceptance in the future, I think communicating well about your decision now, pitching it as wanting to get the experience of a different program/an MA before pursuing your PhD/wanting to cultivate your career -- all of that will help protect your potential admission in the future. Good luck!

Definitely a stressful decision! Do you feel like there are questions that only your PI would be able to answer? Or is your concern more that they're just not being responsive, and that could be indicative of what they will be like in the future? It's possible that slow responses to messages may be how this faculty member engages typically... which may or may not be a comfortable environment for you to begin study in.

I don't see any immediate reason not to apply to both programs, but keep in mind that the same people may end up reading parts of your applications for both. You should be able to articulate why each (and both) are valuable next steps for you in a way that doesn't negate the other's value to your career and research goals. In any case, the best bet would just be to speak to people in either or both departments. They may not be involved with each other's admission process at all. Or they may suggest to you that you'll have a better chance in one program or the other (or a better application by trying to do the MA first, and then the PhD next).

Just shared some similar thoughts in this thread -- I think you are a strong candidate with this background, and have been demonstrably successful in your undergraduate program, especially in showing your research skills. The most important thing here will be considering the big question: Why is art history the right field for you to continue doing the research you want to be doing? Historians & art historians are not the same thing (which I'm sure you understand) -- but what that tangibly means is that the way that each field *thinks* about research topics is different. Having a strong history background means you're an excellent researcher (and that archives background is great) but it may mean that you are more limited in *which* art history programs are right for you. Look for people who value archival research, who are interested in social & cultural history, perhaps material culture/visual culture studies too... these are closer to a history field than a more traditional art history field. I put several questions in the thread above that I would encourage any fellow BA to PhDs to think about, and I think they're even more important when you're articulating a change in field. Ivies for the PHD aren't the be-all, end-all, if you can find a good fit with the right advisor. Good luck!

BA to PhD here! I applied to 7 PhDs & 1 MA, and got into the MA (with partial funding) and 1 PhD -- I'm at the latter now. If I could do it again, I would apply to fewer programs with more contact with the program before submissions. 9 is a lot to consider and to balance, especially while you are still in school. I can't really speak to your resume, but it sounds like you'll make for a strong applicant! The things I'm saying below are coming from a place of being stronger & framing the work you're already doing most effectively. So the advice above is great, but I think the most valuable thing you can do is make good connections with your potential advisors. Send emails, ask for a phone call, ask to meet with their current students. If possible, read some of their work & be able to articulate how the specific work you want to do fits with theirs. Some of them will respond. Some of them won't. But far and above, good contact with them before you apply will set your application apart. Next, I'd just say (and I'm coming from a similar background): As a BA student, it can be difficult to fully understand who YOU are as a scholar within the field -- what your research is contributing, and how your approach to this field fits with other methods, frameworks, and theories. This is something you will continue to develop through your studies, but it is one of the ways to really show that you are prepared to enter this field. In your statement of purpose, and in your conversations with your advisor (and in your own thinking) really take the time to consider a few questions. Some things I wish I'd asked myself: Why is Art History the most relevant field for my research project/specific research interests? What projects & research have I already completed successfully that I can use to demonstrate the kind of art history that I do? How will a PhD in art history, specifically, help me in my professional, academic, and career goals? Why do I need to do it *right now* and not in a few years? What methods & forms of art historical scholarship do I *disagree* with, and why? How is my work different from these? Why is it important that more of my framework/method exists? (And from there -- which scholars at these universities are using those methods?) And while you're thinking about that dissertation topic (and I agree with above, don't make it too specific -- or say explicitly that you expect it to change as you grow as a scholar -- but have a strong general idea of what your project is) -> why does it matter? what does your specific research interest contribute to the field? and how do you know it's contributing something? All of these are big & complicated questions, and things you will continue to develop as you study. I don't expect you'll have complete answers before you apply, or before you even start. But showing your admission committees that you're ready to think about these will show that you are a strong candidate despite your "academic youth." Finally, and this one may be a bit difficult to hear, but I really think it's worth thinking about a year off. I know firsthand the eagerness about moving forward with the degree, especially thinking about funding for a year. And I know exactly what it's like to know that this is your next step, so why wait to take it? I encourage thinking about a year off for a few reasons. 1) While most PhDs are funded, they do not pay well. Taking a year and saving a little buffer will protect you while you're in school. 2) Burnout is *so* real. For a high-achieving student like yourself, your senior year is going to be *rigourous.* Taking a year to breathe, center yourself, and even think about some of the projects you've begun can only help you succeed more in the next year. and 3) Taking the time to connect with advisors, hone your research questions, and develop your ideas takes work, work that is very hard to do while you're in school and balancing so many other things. The people around me that are most successful in the PhD program are the ones who have had to live in the non-academic world for at least a little while -- long enough to understand that there is so much more to life than our research. For me, that time off compelled me to work even harder, and I have a healthier work-life balance, a better understanding of money management, and more professional knowledge I'll use to get a job when I finish. I know it's a hard thing to consider, but you may find that it opens more doors than it closes. Good luck, and feel free to DM me if I can offer any other help!

I think not! In my experience, I've seen some people with two MAs. Usually, they are in different areas, or somehow fulfill a different area of study than each other. Like, some folks get a degree in Archaeology or Anthropology, and then in Art History, or in Art History, then museum education. If you're planning to get a second MA in basically the same thing your first one is in, that might look a bit strange. You'd need to make a clear case why a second MA is the right fit, as opposed to a PhD or something else entirely. Besides the prestige of a different university, what would you hope to get from this second MA, and what would you do differently? Just something to consider, both in the apps, and as you arrange them on your CV. Tufts' MA in Art History and Art History and Museum Studies, UMass Amherst, NYU is Jan 17, CUNY is Feb 1, (Williams' is Jan 5, Georgetown's is Jan 1 -- I think most MA's tend to be in Jan, while PhDs tend to be December).

I'm not sure if this answer is entirely helpful, but are you too late? No, but it may still be a wise choice to wait. You could certainly start work now and put a lot of attention on your applications. I would be very selective with your schools, and work to get your requests to meet with POIs out in the next two weeks. I'd also start working closely with your previous advisors (get in touch ASAP, express your interest in the program) and speak with your current advisors. Is your worry about not getting full support about getting weak recommendation letters, or about not getting as much hands-on help with the app itself? The latter is manageable. The former will take some creativity in finding some stronger recommenders. As for application materials, you're in your MA, so you should have a decent writing sample, and hopefully an effective idea of what work you want to do in grad school (how will it differ from and extend your MA work?). No, it won't hurt your chances to apply and be rejected, so long as you take the process seriously. Many people apply across multiple years before they get into the right fit program. Starting another MA is not a bad idea, though could be costly, especially as an international student. What are your long-term goals? How does the PhD fit into those goals? How would a second MA bolster or alter your existing MA research? So the tl;dr of all that is that yes, you could still make this work. There are applications due as late as January 15, and there may be better time flexibility this year for virtual visits than other years (I ran into Thanksgiving limitations in the US when I was trying to be in touch in November, but you may not have as much of a problem this year). HOWEVER, it may be wise to wait another year or two, or even longer. Many people get an MA and start working before they return to the PhD. It's my understanding that this reads well -- you're still committed, possibly more mature, and with work experience that will help you get a position. Adding to that, this year is likely to be a scant year for admissions due to COVID. So many schools are not accepting applications (NYU, for example), so schools that are will have more applications, and may also not be able to accept as many people as in other years. Faculty are generally more focused on their current students and dealing with teaching and research in a pandemic, and may not be able to offer you as much time in pre-admission meetings than in other years. If you are considering waiting a year to bolster your connections, hone your new research plans, and wait out the pandemic, it might be a wise choice to save your application fees and avoid the stress of putting together apps in the next three months while finishing your MA. A small caveat -- limited apps this year may result in a boom next year -- always something to balance. Good luck!

Hey @onomatopoeia_! I think this ^ is a legitimate concern. And there are others on this forum who will (vehemently) tell you that it's not worth it, or that the job market is so competitive that you need that top tier school to get anywhere. My two cents is that going to a relatively good university, but with a strong community and a supportive advisor will do you more good than an overly rigorous and cutthroat ivy. You'll have the support you need to publish and go to conferences, and to complete the program successfully without burning out. However, it's definitely something to consider carefully -- and reviewing some other threads in the Art History forums will show a wide range of opinions on success rates and what a "good program" actually looks like. Whatever you decide, you are in this for the long haul, and it will be a hard and competitive job market. You should go into this with your eyes open to that, and prepared for what that will entail in your life (having to move, working with low salaries, potentially precarious employment, joining a job market with hundreds of other equally and more qualified applicants). Being open to something that is an alternative to academia, like work in a library or public history museum is a good thing to keep in mind, as it sounds like you are -- more options means more job prospects to consider in the future. I wish you luck with your writing sample and research statement! They're both challenging but important documents. Good luck with your applications!

Hi @onomatopoeia_! The above responses are full of good advice. I wanted to add two points. First, though I can imagine it was really hard to hear your advisor's negative response, this may not be as negative as it seems. Like the others above, it seems like your advisor is suggesting that you manage your expectations. Even with an MA, the applications are /extremely/ competitive in this field. You can be very very qualified, and still get in nowhere. It's also been 6 years since your advisor knew you as a student! Perhaps you have grown significantly in your writing and research skills too. But (at least what you describe), she doesn't seem to entirely be doubting your skill, or even questioning your advisor-advisee relationship, perhaps just imposing her concern about the competitiveness of the field -- she may very well still be a source for a rec letter and advice in your app process. I also think that you can make up for a less prestigious program with clear demonstration of your writing and research skills, with a cogent explanation of what research you want accomplish in school, and with contact with the professors at your chosen university. I'm sure you're already doing it, but talking to other folks (like previous internship supervisors, etc.) might give you other connections to faculty and other perspectives about the competitiveness of the app field. Considering universities who are not necessarily ivies, but who still have a good record of job placement, is definitely a worthwhile pursuit if you are concerned about not being from a tier-1 university.

Hey @Tatiana135, it sounds like you're precisely on the right track then! And hooray about NYU -- I didn't realize they were accepting MAs this year. Great news for you! I have heard particularly good things about Williams, Columbia, and Tufts for curatorial goals. I think that's more of a subjective aspect, but when I applied, I looked for a slant in the language of the program's description and in placements of recent alumni. Do they require certain coursework in museum studies towards the degree, or do they also offer a museum studies program where you could take certain classes? I also asked professors and grad students when I spoke to them. As someone who wants to go into academia, it wasn't as essential for me, since professors could help me understand how they became professors. Decent faculty should be able to guide you to a curatorial placement anyway, but as the job market is already so tight, I wanted to know what kind of alt-ac and professional development options they already offered.

Hi @Tatiana135, I think that going for an MA with a BA in Anthropology is not a stretch, even if you are changing time periods. I also think the time direction you are shifting will work in your favor - contemporary will not require ancient Greek or Latin, so you won't be behind in language study. I imagine you would speak about how your anthropology perspective will allow you to approach the social movements you expect to study as both an art historian and a social historian. And that your Classics background, I would guess, has given you a concrete set of tools to closely analyze objects and situate them in historical context. It's all about how you frame it in your application essays. Is NYU accepting MA applications this year? I've heard that their PhD app is closed due to COVID. Contemporary is certainly not my area of specialty, but is Tufts somewhere you have considered? I would also say -- do you have plans for either an academic or curatorial career path, or plans to get a PhD next? Many of these programs may have more of a slant towards academia or museum work, which is something to consider as you finalize your list. Good luck!

Hi! I second what @CHINESEGOLD has expressed: go for it. A 3.0 is a little low, but not appallingly so. If you have a clear picture of what you want from the program and how you are an effective candidate, that will go much further than your GPA. Plus, if you can highlight the ways that you have turned your academic struggles into successes or strengths, you could demonstrate your tenacity and capacity to pivot, which are both good personal qualities.

Hi! I know you just messaged me, but to answer this specific question publicly -- yes, reaching out to faculty is super important. You need to stand out from 100-300 applications to be not only academically in the top 10, but personally someone the faculty want to work with. Think of this like a job application. If you just send off the application and let it go, you might be awesome, but you will not do as well as the person who has used their networking connections, or done an informational interview. They might be bothered, so you should always be polite. But it's their job to work with new students, so it's a fair thing to ask. Yesss... this is a challenging and time-consuming one. I don't actually know how worth it it is, but it was gratifying for me to see. Basically, I went to each program's page. They usually have a list of current grad students. Those students often list their BA and MA institutions. If they list a BA and not an MA, they almost certainly didn't get their MA before coming to the program. And some programs will offer an MA-along-the-way, so if it matches where you're looking, they also probably only had a BA when they entered!

Hi @paulab! Glad to help I also thought a lot about funding when I was applying, although I've realized that the cost of living is very different -- so the difference between a 36k stipend at UC Berkeley and a 28k one in New Haven might not be as wide as it appears. Is your specific interest mod/con Latin American art? You might look at Ana Maria Reyes at Boston University -- that's where I'm headed this fall and am happy to answer any questions you have. Thanks!!

Hi @paulab! Here are a few criteria I used to narrow down my focus. Like you, I wanted a school in the Northeast and my area is in modern art. Beyond the faculty I already knew about, or who were already recommended to me as potential POIs, I wanted to assess some other schools and to look at their faculty. I actually made up a little worksheet with some of the following criteria and used it to search each department's website. I used these criteria on the schools and people I already knew I wanted to work with, and worked to expand my list too. I started with CAA's directory of programs (https://www.collegeart.org/publications/directories) and narrowed my focus to the regions I wanted and if I wanted an MA or a PHD and started looking at some of these qualities: Preference for academia or curatorial path (some departments will advertise a strong curatorial program, if that's where you want to work after school) Undergrad and MA institutions for current students (I'm a BA-only candidate, so I wanted to see if many students got accepted without an MA, and if my R2 school was realistic) Number of and area of specialty for professors in my field of interest Names of current dissertations in progress (anything relevant to what I want to do?) Diversity, equity, and inclusion statements, and the program's emphasis on transatlantic, post-colonial lenses Placement of recent graduate students Focus on theory, visual analysis, material culture, interdisciplinary etc. (found this by looking at faculty) Presence of, and quality of Graduate Students Association, Graduate Student Unions Stipend amount (takes some creative googling) and number of years (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RK4iDBMdcTm73NJV28gDE6D4_hcjXpohTCThO9lRrQE/edit?usp=sharing) Location relative to areas, museums, and archives of interest (and location relative to cost of living) How long has the program existed? What top faculty have worked there in the past? Once I had narrowed it down to a shorter list of schools, I also considered the following: Responses from faculty (do they respond, when do they respond, are they cordial, do they offer to meet?) Responses from grad students (what do they have to say? are they happy with the program?) Timeline to degree (do most people finish on time? what support is available? what is the placement like) Support for alt-ac futures, professional development Do they actually hold to their DEI statements? Are they actually as interdisciplinary as they claim to be? I know your question was about what makes a "top school" and there are probably answers to this. However, I think you're really looking for a way to narrow your search down. What makes a "Top school" top doesn't matter as much as your ability to succeed in the program and to find work afterwards. I hope these questions help!