xenawins

Ohhh, well that's good to hear about CNF. Kind of a bummer about the fiction workshop take. I'm applying in fiction and perhaps a growth edge for me (assuming I even get accepted anywhere, haaaah) will be learning to ignore this kind of behavior. I find unhealthy egoism antithetical to learning and improving, especially in the artistic fields. And extra especially considering it's so subjective to begin with.

@koechophe yes to all you've said and then some Also that "great books of the world" course, YIKES. That is...well, that's some colonizer bullshit if I've ever heard it. I also appreciate the inconsistency insight - that captures my frustrations perfectly, especially when I hear people wielding certain generalizations as a way to (seemingly) shame or cut down someone else's perspective or creativity, when there's clearly examples of it being done by the "right" people. The "pure theory" makes sense - to me, those ping as general tenants of damn good writing, excepting maybe the internal conflict vs. plot driven conflict emphasis. In a way, I guess that's also why I don't find as much satisfaction in writing straight genre fiction. Without all the other stuff, I just don't find it very interesting to write, much less read. I guess what I find so confounding is that the greats are still considered "greats" even when more and more of us are acknowledging that positions of privilege, politics of the time, and social constraints of the past are a big part of why they got to be considered great in the first place. In the self-reflective sober light of present day, if these greats fall short, especially when there are many other excellent alternatives that could be spotlighted now, why do they still seem to clutter up curriculums and form the bedrock of self-righteous literary traditionalists? I know part of the answer, my brain just doesn't want to accept it, haaah >.<

@MDP congratulations on all your successes and the journey ahead - I appreciate you sharing what you've found helpful! I'm appreciating everyone's insights and opinions shared. Even if I don't agree with some of them, it's a useful experience to read how other people are quantifying quality and the different takes on what makes "literary fiction." It also gives me some pause, as I often wonder if I'm in the right place, or if I'll just end up being too weird or too transgressive to get along in MFA cohorts. I hope not, having spent a lot of time in critique groups and workshopping my writing. I also understand the internets is a convenient trolling ground. However, I'm curious, from those who have the experiences, does catty, authoritative, condescending attitudes fly in a graduate level workshop? I've always enjoyed my workshop experiences and have found them to be respectful, curious, and that critique is offered in the spirit of wanting to support someone in telling their best story in their best voice. I've heard rumors that MFA workshops are not always this way and I think I'm seeing glimmers of that here in the thread. I also ask because there's plenty of experimental, diverse, and cross-genre movement happening in the literary sphere, bending and breaking many of the traditional tenants of literary fiction. I think this is a trend likely to continue especially as more and more programs are prioritizing queer, neurodiverse, and BIPOC voices and perspectives. This is all my own navel-gazing opinion and I don't necessarily think I'm saying anything particularly new or all that interesting... until I read some of the comments in this thread, which made me wonder. I personally find traditional literary fiction to be heavily shaped by supremacy (as so much was and still continues to be) and I think that while we should learn from the past, we should be challenging ourselves to freely reject and move beyond the white-cis-male-centered "this is the right way to tell a proper literary story as documented by the white man gods of decades past, forever and ever amen." My background is speculative science fiction so I'm obviously speaking from that specific place. I just feel some of the traditions of literary fiction have been upheld to its own detriment and am excited to participate in the collective co-creation of a new literary world. Am I even making sense? Probably too much sleep-deprived-addled-ponderings for one post, but I'd love to continue hearing others thoughts and perspectives. Anyone else feel like it's going to be a looooOooOooong few months in waiting? Two weeks into 2022 and I feel like I've fallen into a K-hole.

@MDP I'm applying to UM and Cornell as well, though for the first time. Feels daunting ? And definitely feel you on the patching yourself up part... I went and got a Masters in Counseling in order to do just that! Maybe could have found a cheaper path...but regrets are safe harbors for fog, I suppose. Trying to clear the air and focus on the path ahead this time. I'm curious, but it's a personal question so totally ignore if it's not a topic for discussion - what have you found helpful these days? I'm always hunting for new ideas and perspectives to offer my clients because a lot of people are struggling (hah...hah...it's almost like we're still in a global pandemic or something). @Ydrl do we need to do the FAFSA if we're relying on full funding anyway? I'm in the process of getting divorced which will dramatically alter my income status... I was hoping to be able to wait until I got more information on that but based on your comment, it sounds like the FAFSA needs to be done now? Halp!

Purdue's current graduate students seem to reflect an interest/support for speculative and science fiction. https://cla.purdue.edu/academic/english/gradstudies/creativewriting/graduatestudents.html Here's another list: https://stephgrossman.com/2019/06/21/mfa-programs-that-are-chill-with-speculative-fiction/

Well, I received an invite to submit to round two at the University of Tennessee (UTK). I know it's not the end all, be all, but it's a relief not to be told "Sorry, you're SO not up to snuff we're going to encourage you to save your application money." Good luck to everyone pushing out those applications right now!

@koechophe I feel like I could have written this exact post! It's what I have struggled with for a long time and what has honestly kept me from applying for MFA programs before. My only thoughts are this... I'm already writing, will continue to do so whether or not I get into a MFA program, and my intention for a MFA is to get teaching experience, have a community/focus on creative living, support other creatives, and to round out my vision for what I want to do beyond the degree. As a result, I'm putting my passion forward and using a spec fic writing piece. This consideration was also a big part of my research into what programs might be a good fit. I have a few "top" schools on my list, but only if there was some evidence they would consider/have some kind of track record of working with spec fic type lit work. Because although I WANT to get in... getting into the wrong program or trying to assimilate to what the literary conventions are in the present is counter to my passion for dancing in the dimension of "but what if...?" Ultimately, it would make me unhappy, possibly damage/derail/distract me from my sense of writing purpose/passion, and I don't think I would get as much out of the experience. Maybe this decision means I will absolutely be tossed in the shyte pile -- however, as with the acceptance rate for hell, I would be in very good (and maybe much more fun/dangerous/interesting) company. I hope you'll let me know how it goes for you and what you decide! I think any choice you make is the right one for you at this moment in time. AND, as with anything, you get to change your mind if you need to later!

@Yellow62 I feel your paaaaain. Sent off my UT's round one application and am finishing up my UA application this week. I'm trying to just.... submit and forget? Somehow?? I'll be drowning myself in gravy tomorrow so maybe that'll dull the existential angst for a sweet 24 hours. Wishing you good luck as well!

Hello everyone! This is my first year doing the official go around (I had a half assed attempt at Uni of Montana years ago when I wasn't ready). I'm applying to: University of Alabama, Kansas, FLA, Tennessee, Syracuse, Michigan, Cornell and Arizona State. :)