ZeChocMoose

Living alone is a luxury that at your current income, you just can't afford.  So if you want to keep on living alone, you need to shoulder the financial burden - not have your parents lifting that load for you especially since they have their own debts that they are not paying off to help you out.  So if living alone is a high priority to you, you need to find a way to increase your income either by getting a second job (if allowed by your department) or taking out loans. 
 
Personally, I would just take the smaller room in the shared house and see how that works out.  It is certainly more affordable and it is unlikely that you'll spend a lot of time at home given the responsibilities that you'll have on campus.  The other concern I would have is the rent on the one bedroom will increase over the length of your PhD causing you to borrow more and more money from your parents to cover the increased rent -or- it will force you to move out because the rent will just become too high. That just doesn't seem sustainable in the long run.

Living alone is a luxury that at your current income, you just can't afford.  So if you want to keep on living alone, you need to shoulder the financial burden - not have your parents lifting that load for you especially since they have their own debts that they are not paying off to help you out.  So if living alone is a high priority to you, you need to find a way to increase your income either by getting a second job (if allowed by your department) or taking out loans. 
 
Personally, I would just take the smaller room in the shared house and see how that works out.  It is certainly more affordable and it is unlikely that you'll spend a lot of time at home given the responsibilities that you'll have on campus.  The other concern I would have is the rent on the one bedroom will increase over the length of your PhD causing you to borrow more and more money from your parents to cover the increased rent -or- it will force you to move out because the rent will just become too high. That just doesn't seem sustainable in the long run.

I sat on the admissions committee when I was a master's student for PhD and master's applicants in higher ed. I got to read the applications, participate in the discussion, and vote on whether to admit the applicants or not. My experience (and this is for a program that focused on higher ed than student affairs*) was that limited experience in higher ed wasn't too concerning for applicants who were coming straight from college. The faculty were more interested in their past academic performance (grades and courses taken) as well as recommendations from faculty who can speak to your academic abilities-- pretty much that you can write well, have good ideas and execute them well, and participate in class.

I think the experience card comes into play when you write your statement of purpose (SOP). Here the faculty want to see whether you have a basic understanding of the field, what you want to learn/do in your grad program, how this program helps you meet these goals, and what are your ultimate career goals. For example, at my master's program if you said that you wanted to study student athletes at colleges and universities and you hope to be an admin in athletics, it was probably not the best program for you because none of the faculty study that and there are no assistantships in that office.

That being said, most likely you'll be competing with people who have had professional experience in higher ed. Personally, if I was you student #1, I would just apply to 4 - 5 programs and see what happened. If you don't get in or discover the programs that you get into are not a good fit, then you can always try again in the future after working in the field for a bit.



* The difference between higher ed vs. student affairs can be an important distinction depending on your academic and professional interests. Students affairs usually looks at the student as the unit of analysis and emphasizes student development, counseling, transitions, etc. -- issues that affect students. Higher ed programs tend to be broader and examine student issues as well as faculty and administration issues. They also look at college and universities as organizations as well as examine state and federal policies (that affect higher ed), governance, etc. There are hybrid programs too that usually are called HESAs = Higher Education and Student Affairs programs.

When I was going through the process of looking at master's programs, I didn't realize how different the programs can be even though they have similar sounding names. Looking back at it now, I applied to a random collection of programs that really made no sense given my interests, but I didn't know any better! Thankfully, I ended up at a program that was a good match.

In one year, it is going to be really tough to try to prepare simultaneously for a policy job and a student affairs job.  For a policy job, you are going to want to have a solid quantitative background and policy analysis experience which might be a little tricky to gain if the programs does not allow you to take many electives. 
 
Have you visited each program yet?  Visiting and talking to current students/faculty really helped me when I was deciding between a couple programs for my master's.  You can also ask them in what areas graduates typically end up.  What are your internship offers from each school?  If you have limited experience in the field, it is going to be more helpful to have an internship offer in an area you hope to go into after you graduate.  That is not to say that you can't switch areas if you discover you are better suited elsewhere, but generally hiring managers like to see that you have experience in X if you are applying for X.  Have you looked at the core classes?  I looked up the core classes for UCLA and Penn and they are fairly different.  Which set are you drawn to more?  
 
I also think that the cost of the degree should play a role too.  How much you value it is up to you but the salary for entry level student affairs jobs is about 35 - 45 K.  Depending on whether you have student loan debt from your undergrad, I would not suggest taking on more than 45 K combined in student loans.
 
Oh and wouldn't let the brand of the Ivy League sway you.  Instead, you want to focus on whether they have the courses you want to take, whether the practical experience you gain in the program is going to be helpful for future employment, and whether the costs of the program is reasonable given your financial situation.
 
Good luck!

We are already getting compensated for our service of being TA/RAs by receiving stipends and getting tuition remission. I rather the money go to reestablishing subsidized Stafford loans especially for master's students who are not usually funded by their programs.

We are already getting compensated for our service of being TA/RAs by receiving stipends and getting tuition remission. I rather the money go to reestablishing subsidized Stafford loans especially for master's students who are not usually funded by their programs.

Yes.  Don't self-pay for your PhD.  There are so many reasons why it is not worth it. Also assistantships besides giving you tuition remission and a stipend should be giving you the necessary skills and experience to get a job in your field once you graduate.  Also the national graduation rates for PhD programs are only 50%.  If you end up dropping out, you'll be stuck with debt and no degree which is not a good spot to be in.  
 
The question I would ask if you do receive the competitive assistantship, are you stuck with reapplying each year to see if you can win it?  I talked to PhD students in programs where funding is contingent year to year. It definitely makes everyone more competitive with each other and anxious about money.  PhD studies are hard enough w/o worrying about how you are going to pay your tuition and rent. 

Yes.  Don't self-pay for your PhD.  There are so many reasons why it is not worth it. Also assistantships besides giving you tuition remission and a stipend should be giving you the necessary skills and experience to get a job in your field once you graduate.  Also the national graduation rates for PhD programs are only 50%.  If you end up dropping out, you'll be stuck with debt and no degree which is not a good spot to be in.  
 
The question I would ask if you do receive the competitive assistantship, are you stuck with reapplying each year to see if you can win it?  I talked to PhD students in programs where funding is contingent year to year. It definitely makes everyone more competitive with each other and anxious about money.  PhD studies are hard enough w/o worrying about how you are going to pay your tuition and rent. 

We are already getting compensated for our service of being TA/RAs by receiving stipends and getting tuition remission. I rather the money go to reestablishing subsidized Stafford loans especially for master's students who are not usually funded by their programs.

We are already getting compensated for our service of being TA/RAs by receiving stipends and getting tuition remission. I rather the money go to reestablishing subsidized Stafford loans especially for master's students who are not usually funded by their programs.

We are already getting compensated for our service of being TA/RAs by receiving stipends and getting tuition remission. I rather the money go to reestablishing subsidized Stafford loans especially for master's students who are not usually funded by their programs.

We are already getting compensated for our service of being TA/RAs by receiving stipends and getting tuition remission. I rather the money go to reestablishing subsidized Stafford loans especially for master's students who are not usually funded by their programs.

We are already getting compensated for our service of being TA/RAs by receiving stipends and getting tuition remission. I rather the money go to reestablishing subsidized Stafford loans especially for master's students who are not usually funded by their programs.

I hear this sentiment a lot. It sounds like you are saying there is an expiration date on graduate school. There's not. Go when you feel ready, OP. I think racing into a PhD program before you are ready sounds like a recipe for disaster...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/business/buy-rent-calculator.html
 
Be sure to use the advanced settings to take into account things like security deposits, local taxes, etc. I also think their default assumptions for increasing property value are too high for most parts of the country, and the assumed rent increase too low.
 
We bought a year after starting grad school, and it looks like we'll save 30-60k over renting in just those four years (depends on whether the unit gains value or not, and even greater savings than that if rents continue to rise at 7-10% in our area as they have been). But we live in a very expensive rental market where condos, and our unit was bought far under market value so we are very confident of selling it, so the math was more in our favor than it might be for you. Origination fees should be fairly minimal compared to the unit cost, but if your margin is only 15k it probably isn't worth the hassle and lack of flexibility that come with home ownership--for example you can't move quickly if your neighbors are shitty or circumstances change. I honestly don't think it is worth it unless the savings are something you will really notice (eg more than a few thousand a year) or it is your dream unit. Better to save your money for a home wherever you settle for the long term after grad school, in my opinion.
 
Mortgage apps and house hunting were also essentially a full time job for a few months. Also, unless you can pay full asking price in cash, you will probably need to find a "non-conforming" loan (exceedingly hard to get post 2012 finacial reforms)--this is because most of us were previously in the work force (got W-2s), and when we switch to getting fellowships (1099-MISC) it is considered changing job type to "self-employed," and you are expected to have a 2-5 year work history proving sufficient income on the 1099s. Rediculous, I know, but try convincing the bank that your income is gauranteed despite the 1099 and you'll see how difficult this is. I had better luck with local credit unions that offered "portfolio loans," Fannie/Freddie and the big banks won't touch you.

It varies. For where I go to school, the apartment hunting scene is fierce given that there are only so many places you can live. The campus does not have any dedicated parking for students, so all of us live within the coverage of public transportation. The wait for an availability could be up to a year, so many of us don't move once settled in somewhere, unless the rent gets too much to handle or there's unpleasant roommate experience. 
 
I suggest you talk to your fellow students, especially the upper classmen. Maybe you can also try rent.com? This is how I found my current place, and I got a 150 dollar (or 100, can't remember now) gift card after I moved in. 

Re. paragraph 1 - most research groups websites have lists of their former students showing where they end up. You can check out where people from your safety schools ended up. Or else if you have names then you probably can search their career trajectories on LinkedIn. If you get your PhD from a lower-ranking school then there are Community Colleges, Small Liberal Arts Colleges and all the universities below yours in the rankings. If you've studied at a place where you support yourself through more TAs than RAs, you'll be in a better position to get a teaching-intensive SLAC job than a student who went to Harvard and spent 6 years doing research.
 
Re. paragraph 2 - I guess it depends what you mean by "recognised"...and where you're looking. I know of PIs at public state universities who reel in a lot of federal & industrial grant money (the grant review panels must therefore consider their work valid). Looking at the latest batch of American Chemical Society Award Winners I can see quite a spread of universities from which the winners come from, including the state schools and places I wouldn't have considered as chemistry strongholds. 
 
Given that you have several years of industrial experience already (& a network within the companies), I'm not sure how much additional benefit a PhD from an elite institution would give you over a PhD from a non-elite school when it came to finding jobs...

I think Vanderbilt is a great school for education. Is it number 1? Not for my discipline (higher ed). Although neither is TC or Harvard. I assume people talk about them more frequently because they are Ivy league schools and people have this obsession to enroll there because they are considered prestigious to attend. Personally, I think the funding for doctoral students at both institutions is pretty terrible and disappointing given how NYC and Boston have such a high cost of living. Although being full funded and having a stipend I can live on is extremely important to me.

Rankings are all relative though. If the program is a good fit, there are faculty that you are interested in learning from, and the program has a high placement rate that should be your deciding factors-- not what US News & World Report says.

Oh and US News & World Report only ranks doctoral education-- so if you are doing a master's degree, the rankings are not relevant.

It honestly doesn't matter that much. I have seen people do either Higher Ed or Student Affairs programs and secure advising positions. Hiring managers tend to be more concerned if you have experience in advising during your master's program than your specific type of program. I would select a program depending on what you want to study and its overall fit. If you want to learn about student development and counseling-- then go with a student affairs program. If you want to learn about faculty, admin, students, higher ed policy, organizational theory, etc -- do a higher ed program. If you want a combo, you can always look into HESA (higher ed and student affairs) programs.

Master's degree programs are not ranked in higher ed programs. She might be referring to the rankings of higher ed PhD programs, but they are not the same. (Some depts treat their master's students very differently from their PhD programs--- and some don't.) I would be much more concerned about coming out debt free or relatively debt free from my master's program. You also want to make sure that you are getting enough quality experience either through assistantships or internships so you can get a job when you graduate.

Definitely tell them that you don't plan to enroll. But, it's not really appropriate for you to recommend someone off the waiting list to them.

Unless you are enrolled at a U.S. university and participating in a special exchange program, that debt will likely not be in the form of Federal student loans, with fixed interest rates and very flexible repayment options. It might, however, consist of private student loans, with variable interest rates.

The latter sort of debt is not the pleasant sort to have, since you have little to no recourse against abusive lenders under U.S. law.



The job market for liberal arts and humanities is terrible right now. Be careful.



If you can get into a ranked and funded master's program Stateside, that may be a better option from a straight financial point of view. After all, there is nothing stopping you from studying abroad for a semester or two or collaborating with folks at those schools in the UK and Ireland on research and publications in your specialty - continental philosophy.

To be fair, it is not an accreditation issue.  In Maryland to grant new academic degree programs, HEIs need to get approval from the Maryland Higher Ed Commission (MHEC).  MHEC requires HEIs to go through this approval process to coordinate efforts.  They don't want 30 programs in X field if the demand is not there so the school proposing the new program (JHU in this case) needs to show there is demand for the program in their region and that they have adequate financial resources to create and maintain the new program.  Other HEIs in Maryland that already grant this degree may submit their objections to JHU's proposal especially if these schools think that the new program at JHU will decrease their enrollments substantially.  This new program approval process is separate from accreditation though.
 
It looks like MHEC is going to make the decision on JHU's proposed PhD in education on Feb 1.  So far, there are no objections registered from other schools. Here is the link: http://www.mhec.state.md.us/highered/acadaff/acadproginstitapprovals/AcadProgDescriptions/APTLogPDShow.asp?sPD=12203
 
However, whether you should go to a newly created PhD program is a whole other discussion. I think it comes down to whether there is faculty there that you would want to work with and how comfortable you feel with risk i.e. the program might be fluid for a bit until they work out all the kinks per say.  They are also not going to be able to tell you their job placement rates since you'll be the first class.  Perhaps being in a new program will allow you greater flexibility with your program and maybe the faculty and staff will be more motivated to help you because you'll be the first class.  It is difficult to tell in these cases and that is why you'll need to be comfortable with some degree of risk.

It honestly doesn't matter that much. I have seen people do either Higher Ed or Student Affairs programs and secure advising positions. Hiring managers tend to be more concerned if you have experience in advising during your master's program than your specific type of program. I would select a program depending on what you want to study and its overall fit. If you want to learn about student development and counseling-- then go with a student affairs program. If you want to learn about faculty, admin, students, higher ed policy, organizational theory, etc -- do a higher ed program. If you want a combo, you can always look into HESA (higher ed and student affairs) programs.

Master's degree programs are not ranked in higher ed programs. She might be referring to the rankings of higher ed PhD programs, but they are not the same. (Some depts treat their master's students very differently from their PhD programs--- and some don't.) I would be much more concerned about coming out debt free or relatively debt free from my master's program. You also want to make sure that you are getting enough quality experience either through assistantships or internships so you can get a job when you graduate.

I agree with michigan girl. It sounds like you will enjoy your master's experience more in a MPP program. Then I would take higher ed electives so look for a school that offers both.





It is going to skew heavily towards student affairs. If you don't want to do that, you may be able to find entry-level positions in ed policy or ed research either at a university, in a dept of ed, research centers or think tanks (that are sufficiently large enough to have non-PhD level researchers), or other non profit organizations.

There are lots of caveats to this path though-- you'll need to look for 2 year programs and take a lot of quantitative methods and stats classes (and policy analysis if you go the policy route not straight research). You'll need one substantial internship in this area. You'll may need to relocate for the summer to get this experience (unless you are close to a major city).

Not all higher ed programs are set up to allow you this flexibility to take a lot of methods and analysis courses hence the recommendation to also look at MPP programs.

I am taking this to mean that you are interested in either university admin -or- research and policy work. If that is correct, then the issue is that you would chose different master's programs to meet these goals. I am not aware of a program that is going to do both of these well or really at all (but perhaps there are some).

I guess I would lean more towards the research/policy side because there are technical skills that you'll need to pick up in a program in order to be competitive for an entry-level job. (I did educ research after my master's degree made possible by the different classes and professional experiences I had in the program).

Pure-ish admin jobs at universities don't necessarily go to people with a master's in higher ed. You may ultimately reach a management position at a university (after maybe a decade or so of experience), but it will be in an office that is going to be directly or indirectly related to students somehow (admissions, advising, res life, student programs, etc). I am having trouble because you list that you are interested in doing "quality improvement" and "institutional management." If you want to practice this, you might be better served in a MBA program. I know people who do similar-like activities to this at universities, but they don't have master's in higher ed degrees.



I am not aware of any higher ed programs that promote research assistantship positions for master's students. There might be some programs that have a couple positions for master's students (1-2 per year), but most RA positions tend to go to the doctoral students. Most likely, you could volunteer to be involved with a professor's research that you find interesting. You'll have to juggle this with courses and work obligations. In a one year program, this may be very difficult to achieve given that you'll also be job searching in the spring.

You can definitely limit your exposure to student affairs in your course work. I know I did in my higher ed master's program because that wasn't what particularly interested me about the field. The programs that you list have a more higher ed focus than student affairs so you should be good (I am not familiar with UPenn's program though.) I would just look to see what the core classes are and make sure that you don't need to take any student development or counseling classes. It's sorta unlikely that you'll be able to get away from students completely in your internship or assistantship positions though.