long_time_lurker

Definitely doable. I had a low undergrad (barely 3.0 by rounding) but high MS GPA, and a high GRE. That and my work experience did the trick.

I think this is the most compelling argument I have seen. You would have to consider the SOP the same as qualifications (GRE, transcripts, letters), and I'm not sure I buy that. However I think you're on to something, where the OP should just mention his interest in working in industry right off the bat which would serve both his and the uni's purposes as well. Then, no red flags will be raised as to why his interests (including internships and the like) are centered on industry-specific knowledge and/or research.

A counter-argument would be that there are plenty of folks who really are fascinated by subject X and working with Dr. Z, but for various reasons - academic, personal (spouse, etc.), career (getting hired only a couple of years into the program) - they change their minds later. I don't think that makes them bad or even people who did not fulfill their commitments.

President, as long as you do your TA'ing or whatever the school makes you do during your studies, you're doing nothing wrong. No one signs a blood oath saying he is going to finish his program. Many people don't finish programs for one reason or another, including that they find a job. So leaving with your MS is nothing to feel bad about, and there is nothing unethical about it either. You are not "stealing someone else's spot" in a program, that's rubbish; YOU earned the spot by having a superior application. It is yours to utilize as you see fit.

Definitely doable. I had a low undergrad (barely 3.0 by rounding) but high MS GPA, and a high GRE. That and my work experience did the trick.

Definitely doable. I had a low undergrad (barely 3.0 by rounding) but high MS GPA, and a high GRE. That and my work experience did the trick.

Compared to where, Europe? Tipping at restaurants and bars (not to mention for cab rides, deliveries, etc.) is customary all over the US. It is not just for exceptional service.


Anyone in the service industry makes a little over $2/hr. This is customary.


Now before you think I'm just attacking you, it sounds like this bar really does suck and the bartender may indeed be a dope who is just there to chase tail. In that case you give him (and by extension, the barback, food runner, and back of the house none of whose fault it is) his $1 and you leave. There are lots of bars that are not obnoxious and don't charge covers. It also helps to go during the week instead of on Friday and Saturday nights. Those are "amateur nights".


Well, then don't go out. If you can't pay, you can't play. I don't see why the bartender should have to pay (he has to tip out on his sales) to serve you; it's not his fault he got stuck with a cheap grad student (no one made you do it!) who gets paid to sit at a desk all day.

It's a free country and you can do what you want, but you shouldn't be surprised at getting a negative response nor should you be surprised if you get poor service when you don't pay for it. You can always get a 6-pack at the corner store if it's that big of a deal to you.

Plenty of people go to school to improve their career opportunities; it's not as if the only reason to get a PhD is to work in academia. Even my advisors have told me that many folks leave as ABD's when they are offered jobs, because not many people pass up 80 to 100K a year just to do a dissertation to earn the PhD.
Also why is it disgusting for someone to spend money that he saved at nice restaurants or anywhere else for that matter? We're still a capitalist country, and people go where they get the best deals. If this guy can get his school paid for, good for him. If he wants to blow it on eating out, or even hookers and drugs, good for him.

President, as long as you do your TA'ing or whatever the school makes you do during your studies, you're doing nothing wrong. No one signs a blood oath saying he is going to finish his program. Many people don't finish programs for one reason or another, including that they find a job. So leaving with your MS is nothing to feel bad about, and there is nothing unethical about it either. You are not "stealing someone else's spot" in a program, that's rubbish; YOU earned the spot by having a superior application. It is yours to utilize as you see fit.

I'm an expectant father (due early June) so I can't tell you what it feels like to be pregnant but I can relay what my wife has felt like as well as former co-workers, and how grad school plays in:

1. My wife's morning sickness was 24/7 the whole first trimester. She's a trooper though and didn't miss a day of work, and in her job she's on her feet. She is often very tired, though.
2. A co-worker and I did our Masters at the same time, full-time job and full-time Masters. She had two kids already to boot. She did it, but she was definitely more exhausted than I was.
3. My wife is very tired, so I would think with commuting and class it might be a challenge to have the energy for reading and assignments. Also, our doctor said strictly no caffeine.

So it's certainly doable. People work 40 hours (or more) and do it so no difference here.

4. We got married in '08 and knew we wanted to conceive this past fall. Since I used to teach full-time the idea was to have the baby in the early summer so I would be here to support my wife the first couple months, and it worked out. I'd imagine you'd want to do the same thing, so you don't miss any classes.
5. I don't know what your husband does and your career situation now or when you get out, but I'm going to make a lot more in a few years but at our ages (33 and 31) we did not want to wait any longer. We had the same issue where a little more than a year ago I didn't think I would be in a program (and mine is 4 years minimum if I'm disciplined and the dissertation goes well). We decided not to let material issues get in the way of what we really wanted (a family). So I would say, don't wait - except perhaps till the late summer to conceive rather than now - because really family comes first and the rest will be figured out one way or another.
6. This is more for after the birth, and maybe you're different but I know I can't study with noise, so I already moved my study (that's where baby's room will be) besides getting the baby's room ready before class begins. So do as much as possible now before you're pregnant e.g. IKEA runs, painting, etc. or make sure your husband can take vacation (I've spent my break on this and one last paper.) Your husband is going to have to realize he's going to have to care for the baby when he/she's loud and that you need your own quiet time/space.
7. Since you're in NY: If you don't have health benefits, the eligibility is a lot more forgiving for pregnant women, as you get counted as 2 people. Once you have the baby, a family can get Child Health Plus if the household income is under about 75K. So if you didn't think you would be eligible, you might be.

Before we got married 3 years ago, my wife and I spent over 10 years living 1.5 hours apart by car. When we were younger without cars the first couple years of that was over 3 hours by public transit. So it's absolutely possible. The question is whether you both really want it or not. If you do and he does, there's no problem.

I won't be returning to my program in the fall so I figured I'd chime in.

You really have to clear your head and think about why you entered your program to start with and whether staying in the program will be more beneficial than leaving it.

In my case, I had the same feelings as you in regard to whether I really saw myself spending my thirties working on something I may not want to do. I was only interested in private sector work and the employers that came and gave talks mostly offered jobs in academia (no thanks) or private sector employment involving research intensive and theoretical work that I'm not all that interested in (as opposed to more applied work). The key though was that I was offered my old job back for the fall and another side job at the same employer where my salary will increase compared to what it was, and will be more than twice my stipend. It didn't help the case for staying that I would have to quit the job I worked part-time this year to complete my coursework.

Now in your case you say that not only do you have no job lined up but you have no idea what you would do. In that case it's pretty irresponsible to just pull up your stakes and walk. I would pick a project, register, etc. and spend the next couple of months sending resumes out to any job for which you're qualified. If you get something, then you can walk away from the University. If nothing pans out, you can at least go back in the fall and collect your stipend as well as gain more experience. If you can teach a lab, do so, and you can put that on your resume so you can adjunct or teach high school. You'll gain research and lab experience on your project that you can put on your resume. You also may grow to like your project and decide to stay at the University.

It seems you have nothing to lose by staying and a lot to lose (no job, no income, etc.) if you leave right now.

I won't be returning to my program in the fall so I figured I'd chime in.

You really have to clear your head and think about why you entered your program to start with and whether staying in the program will be more beneficial than leaving it.

In my case, I had the same feelings as you in regard to whether I really saw myself spending my thirties working on something I may not want to do. I was only interested in private sector work and the employers that came and gave talks mostly offered jobs in academia (no thanks) or private sector employment involving research intensive and theoretical work that I'm not all that interested in (as opposed to more applied work). The key though was that I was offered my old job back for the fall and another side job at the same employer where my salary will increase compared to what it was, and will be more than twice my stipend. It didn't help the case for staying that I would have to quit the job I worked part-time this year to complete my coursework.

Now in your case you say that not only do you have no job lined up but you have no idea what you would do. In that case it's pretty irresponsible to just pull up your stakes and walk. I would pick a project, register, etc. and spend the next couple of months sending resumes out to any job for which you're qualified. If you get something, then you can walk away from the University. If nothing pans out, you can at least go back in the fall and collect your stipend as well as gain more experience. If you can teach a lab, do so, and you can put that on your resume so you can adjunct or teach high school. You'll gain research and lab experience on your project that you can put on your resume. You also may grow to like your project and decide to stay at the University.

It seems you have nothing to lose by staying and a lot to lose (no job, no income, etc.) if you leave right now.

I remember a brochure in the undergrad physics office that said, "What can you do with a degree in physics? Anything you want to!" -- Which I later learned meant that you can (a) teach ( work at McDonald's, or © get another degree -- in anything you want to!
Is that how it seems in chemistry, too? I imagine chemistry is a bit more practical, and thus easier to get jobs with a B.S.

At one point I looked into working with a temp agency that was specific to sciency things. That may be something to look into during leave of absence. There are also lab tech jobs that (I imaginine) a BS in chemistry could get you. Ooh! You could work for a brewery!

A lot of times people come to the conclusion that the easiest thing to do with their degree is teach the subject to high-schoolers, and while some are successful at that I would discourage it, as all the nuts and bolts of teaching well can be hard to pick up quickly. (At least they were for me... I love science and explaining it to people, but I crashed and burned as a high school teacher with Teach for America.)

On the plus side, I'm always surprised by jobs out there I never knew existed. Did you know that science museums do outreach programs for schools and scout groups? I had no idea before, but now that's my job and I love it.

And I second what Euthuphron said. A job doesn't have to encompass all your passions to be satisfying, it just has to enable you to pursue many of your passions. My grandpa liked music and was good at math & science, so he became an engineer (nothing to do with music), but that gave him a regular schedule so that he could sing with the church choir, and provided an income that allowed the family to go on fun vacations.

I'm sure you'll end up with something satisfying!

Moving expenses may also be a drop in the bucket when funding and the cost of living are taken into consideration. The funding package I receive from school, coupled with the cost of living in the area will leave me in a much better place financially than if I pursued doctoral studies in my hometown (NYC). The cost and aggravation may not seem worthwhile for a 1-2 year program but once you're talking 4+ years, the cost of moving becomes a nonfactor.

More than likely that was somebody with a BS story trying to get a rise out of people (i.e. a troll). On the other hand, this is no different than any other job in this world. Even religious sisters have these office politics related conflicts. So if this teaches someone a lesson, so be it.

I have to admit this would be a funny joke to pull on someone who was actually granted it, to bust someone's chops.

This is how it works too if you do work for state government. You have to pay up front and then you get reimbursed once you send in your train tickets and hotel receipts.

2 tips:
1. Don't reserve your travel or hotel until as close as possible until the event. Especially for conferences often the hotel rate is a special rate for the conference so you don't have to worry about price fluctuations as it gets closer to the conference.
2. If there is a limit to how much you can get for transportation (i.e. train or airfare) don't book the train or flight until the price gets really close to the reimbursement limit. Again, as you said, no reason to book unnecessarily early and give the school a free loan.
3. If 1 and 2 don't work, sign up for a new credit card, they always offer 0 interest for around 12 months which is always plenty of time to get reimbursed.

You have to be more specific as far as "international vibe" because so many nationalities are represented here. However in general you won't go wrong in Queens. Half the people who live there were born outside the US and hail from just about everywhere. The 7 line in particular is dubbed the "International Express". Sunnyside and Woodside are both good neighborhoods with nightlife and not an arm and a leg to live in especially considering their proximity to transit. Another good place in that vicinity is Maspeth. If you're into South Asia, Jackson Heights will be up your alley and if you're looking for Central/South American then Corona will work. Be aware the latter two areas are a tad on the sketchy side (Jackson Heights less so).
One thing to note though is former Mayor Dinkins' "gorgeous mosaic" analogy; the city looks diverse from far away but is made up of many monoglot or monocultural neighborhoods. There are exceptions (I mentioned a few) but you should be aware of people who, for instance, use "diverse" as a euphemism for "black" or "not white". Places like Flushing (Chinese), southeastern Queens like Hollis/St. Albans (black), arguably Jackson Heights (if you lump together Indian/Bangladeshi/Pakistani) I argue aren't really diverse because they still have a dominant culture. JH has going for it though proximity to other neighborhoods, lots of housing and it's on the 7 train.

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No doubt I wouldn't live in the Slope period, whether or not I was going to SB, but the drive isn't [i[that bad, particularly if it's timed right. You figure this person will be going east when everyone's going west, and vice versa. My in-laws live out in Suffolk and I spent another 10 years before I got married visiting my wife out there. The Belt can definitely suck but really from the Slope you would take the BQE to the Expressway or better yet take the streets; actually the Slope is right near one of my favorite shortcuts which is Atlantic Ave to Penn Ave to the Interboro.
I don't see any reason why his/her drives will be any more than an hour and a half. Figure no Friday classes so no nightmares on spring Friday afternoons, no rush hour crawls. I get to Mattituck from Staten Island in 2 hours so SB isn't going to be 2 - 2.5 from Brooklyn.
On the other hand you are right on the money on the overpriced hipster hell that that whole part of Brooklyn has become. Poster is better off moving out to the Island unless something else is keeping him/her in Brooklyn.
Many people work at the Brookhaven Labs who are young and/or out-of-towners and rent places around there. I never got the impression from them that housing was hard to find or overpriced.

Wow. If I was an investor I would run for the exits.

Cheap is being used as a relative term here. The UES is hardly cheap, but compared to let's say the Village or hipster Brooklyn, it is. Also as pomo alluded to, many of the cheaper locations are really in Spanish Harlem but the ever truthful realtors advertise them as UES.

If you're that worried about this, you may benefit from some counseling or therapy. It may not help you by March, but getting over that is something you're going to have to do eventually.

I suggest putting your questions on index cards. No one is going to slag you for coming prepared with questions. Treat it like a job interview. Know how you want to answer their questions ahead of time, and know what you want to ask them.

Also, you will see that you'll be glad you're visiting on your own. You'll get a more genuine view of the day-to-day experience in the department.

15-20 minutes is walking distance. You really ought to expand your horizons if you want to come here (or any city like Boston, Chicago, LA, etc.)
$1000 on a share means a 2br for $2000 or 3br for $3000. You can check out padmapper but I think that's quite unlikely in the Village. In fact in today's Post there's an article with a graphic that states the average price of a 1br in the city is over $2600.
On the other hand if you drop the 15-20 minute requirement there are plenty of places a train ride away where you can get a 2br for under $2000. Assuming you want to do public transit, anywhere in Jersey along the PATH (like Hoboken) or HBLR will work (just stay out of the parts of Jersey City away from the water and Newark), in Brooklyn along the L train (but don't go too far as it gets seedy), the N/R train (e.g. Sunset Park and Bay Ridge). You can go up to Inwood too, it's affordable and you would get to NYU in under an hour. Where you want to go will depend on your sensibilities. Personally I find anywhere along the L now to be Hipster Hell - Dante's unwritten tenth circle. If you're into that scene though you might like it.

I'd like to echo the other posters. My credit score is what qualified me for zero interest when I got my car 2 summers ago. That's free money. Also when you count rewards points, you are getting at least a 1% discount on everything.

Now on the other hand if you are talking about people who charge away indiscriminantly on cards and then don't pay off their balances, well then I am with you 100%. This is really an abhorrent behavior, especially when the same sorts of irresponsible people expect the rest of us to bail them out when they declare bankruptcy. It's a shame there still aren't debtors prisons.

You have to be more specific as far as "international vibe" because so many nationalities are represented here. However in general you won't go wrong in Queens. Half the people who live there were born outside the US and hail from just about everywhere. The 7 line in particular is dubbed the "International Express". Sunnyside and Woodside are both good neighborhoods with nightlife and not an arm and a leg to live in especially considering their proximity to transit. Another good place in that vicinity is Maspeth. If you're into South Asia, Jackson Heights will be up your alley and if you're looking for Central/South American then Corona will work. Be aware the latter two areas are a tad on the sketchy side (Jackson Heights less so).
One thing to note though is former Mayor Dinkins' "gorgeous mosaic" analogy; the city looks diverse from far away but is made up of many monoglot or monocultural neighborhoods. There are exceptions (I mentioned a few) but you should be aware of people who, for instance, use "diverse" as a euphemism for "black" or "not white". Places like Flushing (Chinese), southeastern Queens like Hollis/St. Albans (black), arguably Jackson Heights (if you lump together Indian/Bangladeshi/Pakistani) I argue aren't really diverse because they still have a dominant culture. JH has going for it though proximity to other neighborhoods, lots of housing and it's on the 7 train.

If you're that worried about this, you may benefit from some counseling or therapy. It may not help you by March, but getting over that is something you're going to have to do eventually.

I suggest putting your questions on index cards. No one is going to slag you for coming prepared with questions. Treat it like a job interview. Know how you want to answer their questions ahead of time, and know what you want to ask them.

Also, you will see that you'll be glad you're visiting on your own. You'll get a more genuine view of the day-to-day experience in the department.