Saying Yes with applications outstanding

[ArtOfNumbers]

At the end of the month I have a campus interview for a PhD program and I have a couple of questions.

First, I have the impression the interview means I stand a very good chance of an offer (they’re paying for the trip). Is my impression correct?

Second, I’ve already been told if I do get an offer I’ll only be given a few weeks to decide(the fact that they’ve already warned me about this also makes me think I’m in with a very good chance). I would be thrilled to attend this school, without question! It’s a fantastic program, and very highly ranked for my area of interest so I think I would be very happy there. BUT I also know I won’t have an answer from my ‘dream’ school before I have to commit. What, if any, repercussions would there be if I accepted but later rejected the place in favour of a true dream opportunity? Note: I am extremely unlikely to be accepted by ‘dream’ school but I’m a worrier and a planner so I always have to game out every possible scenario!

[TakeruK]

Congrats on your achievement and progress towards an admission offer thus far! For your first question, I think the signs are good but nothing is certain. Schools might invite and pay for students to visit but only admit half of them. Or maybe they will admit 90% of them. Or maybe they will basically admit everyone as long as you are not a jerk on visit day. It's not clear. However, paying for a student to visit probably costs around $1000. Supporting a student through a 5 year program costs like $400,000. So I'd say that for schools that can afford it, if they want 20 new students, it's not a bad investment to pay for 40 to visit and then admit the best 20 (it will cost them $20,000 but admitting a student they regret later costs them 20x that). That said, even a 50% chance at admission is way higher than where you were initially (most schools accept 5% of all applicants) so you've still made it far

Second question: I think you have valid concerns but my advice is to take a step back and take it one part at a time. Let's call your two schools, "Interview school" and "Dream school", for short.

Interview school has told you that you will have a few weeks to decide if they make you an offer. Although this isn't likely to be the April 15 extension like most US programs might have (although maybe your field isn't one that usually participates in the convention), it's not like you have to decide on the spot either. There will be plenty of time for you to consider several plans of action once you get an offer and a deadline from Interview School.

However, as I am also a planner that likes to play out all possible scenarios, it might help if I suggest a few things that could happen after you get an offer from Interview school with only a few weeks to decide. Again, I wouldn't worry about the specifics too much at this time since so much is still unknown. This is just meant to be a brief overview of possible actions:

- Find out Dream School's decision timeline. You might do this by contacting them, talking to someone you know there, looking on the grad cafe's Results survey (but this might have old data).

- Ask Interview School to give you more time to decide (they might not grant it but you can always ask)

- Accept Interview School when you have no more extensions available and then consider Dream School if they make an offer later. This does have some negative consequences but exactly what they are will depend on the specific scenario.

So I think you have some options and it makes sense to think about it more when you have more information. Feel free to come back here for more advice with your specific scenario when you know more

[Sal2018]

I am facing this dilemma right now. The Director of Graduate Studies at my safety school sent me a letter this week saying they will send out an offer for admission with funding very soon while I am still waiting to hear back from the other schools I have applied to. Some schools I have applied to shared that they will not decide on funding until late February. In such a situation, I don't know if it would be appropriate to accept this offer now and reject later if I hear back from some better schools (in terms of rank or funding offered). I am worried about the possible ramifications of such actions. Can anyone please advise?

[TakeruK]

9 hours ago, Sal2018 said:

I am facing this dilemma right now. The Director of Graduate Studies at my safety school sent me a letter this week saying they will send out an offer for admission with funding very soon while I am still waiting to hear back from the other schools I have applied to. Some schools I have applied to shared that they will not decide on funding until late February. In such a situation, I don't know if it would be appropriate to accept this offer now and reject later if I hear back from some better schools (in terms of rank or funding offered). I am worried about the possible ramifications of such actions. Can anyone please advise?

The same advice I gave above applies to your situation too.

[WildeThing]

Aren’t (most) universities beholden to the graduate agreement that says that offers that involve funding cannot be required before April 15th?

[TakeruK]

52 minutes ago, WildeThing said:

Aren’t (most) universities beholden to the graduate agreement that says that offers that involve funding cannot be required before April 15th?

Sure, if they are in the USA and signed onto the agreement. Typically the three things that all have to be true for the Resolution to hold:

1. They have to be offering funding, not just admission (as you said, but not certain if this applies in the case here), and
2. They have to be a signatory of the CGS Resolution (http://cgsnet.org/april-15-resolution). Typically, the most common reasons why some programs aren't are that i) the school isn't signed on, or ii) the program itself is not part of the Graduate School but instead part of the Professional School or the Law School or some other entity at an institution that is listed but isn't part of the Council of Graduate Studies, and
3. The program has to choose to adhere to the Resolution (the resolution is not binding in any way and there are literally no consequences if the program chooses to ignore the resolution).

[Sal2018]

On 1/16/2018 at 12:09 AM, TakeruK said:

- Accept Interview School when you have no more extensions available and then consider Dream School if they make an offer later. This does have some negative consequences but exactly what they are will depend on the specific scenario.

Any idea/examples of "negative consequences" you speak of here ... ?

[TakeruK]

12 hours ago, Sal2018 said:

Any idea/examples of "negative consequences" you speak of here ... ?

Sure. But remember that these are just examples of what could happen, not necessarily what would actually happen in any specific case. 

As you know, academic integrity is vital to our line of work. Often, this expectation of each other acting with integrity extends beyond strictly academic cases. Academics generally expect other academics to stay true to their word. Committing to a program and accepting their offer is generally a commitment people will expect you to keep, even though there is no legally binding reason for you to do so. Other examples are things like writing a reference letter on time, providing a fair assessment when asked, submitting your referee report on time, giving credit where it is due, etc. 

Acting against these expectations can make some people upset and cause them to lose their trust in you. In this specific case, I would say that the "infraction" is fairly minor and I would totally understand why someone might accept an offer and change their mind later because the school refused to extend deadlines to match the standard convention. However, this will probably cause the student to be less likely to be accepted at the same school again if they applied again in the future. I don't expect the consequences to go beyond that though.

That said, I don't really know if the people on the other end are also reasonable people. Academics talk and you might end up with some sort of negative reputation. Through these gossip/rumors, the exact nature of what you did might be lost so there's a risk that you get labelled with something negative. This is unlikely though, since to be honest, grad student applicants aren't important enough that people will remember us (this is more a risk for faculty or postdoc applications). In an even more extreme/unlikely case, the "Dream School" and "Interview School" talk regularly (maybe the potential PIs at those two places are friends/collaborators) and when "Dream School" finds out what you did to "Interview School", they might revoke your offer. This is extremely unlikely though. In fact, this whole final paragraph is very very unlikely but just listing potential risks.

Ultimately, my personal decision would be to avoid accepting an offer and backtracking whenever possible. However, if I end up with no other choice, then I think the risk is worth it. But each person needs to make that decision for themselves.

[lady_bones0144]

I found myself in a similar position. I applied to Northwestern, U Pitts, and Georgia Tech for a Master's  (3 of only 11 schools that offer my program). I heard back from Northwestern way earlier than I expected I would and had a very short time to provide a reply to their admissions invitation. Had 2 weeks to give an answer because they operate on rolling admissions, and on top of that a 'yes' does not secure spot in program you have to pay a pretty hefty deposit to save a spot. I got the invitation before I even submitted the last application (GaTech). Really waiting to hear from Tech because the program would be so much cheaper with the in-state tuition rather than paying the tuition and living costs to move to Chicago. I ended up paying the deposit to have a safety net in case I get a no from U Pitt and GaTech which are both highly competitive programs. I've been going stir crazy waiting to hear back, but at least I know I have one option open, even if it isn't exactly on the terms that I would have it. Now if I am one of the lucky 14 to be accepted in Tech, that's a whole other headache of deciding where to go. I really hope if I do decide to renege on my Northwestern acceptance that they do not hold a grudge; my field is fairly small and I am also considering their PhD program in the future. 

[anmanya]

What would be the consequences if we say yes to two schools? Can we go back and reject later on?

[Sparkybob]

3 hours ago, anmanya said:

What would be the consequences if we say yes to two schools? Can we go back and reject later on?

You can but you will probably piss off the other school and possibly cost a student a spot in that school.