JordanJames Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Canadian- I heard that for a lot of poli sci programs, the quant is more important to them than the verbal. True or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingwalrus Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Canadian- I heard that for a lot of poli sci programs, the quant is more important to them than the verbal. True or not. Defnitely true. Maybe not so much for political theorists, but certainly for nearly everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nertperson Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Mr. 'I hate the GRE' is a regular on these forums. We know his problem: he screwed up the GRE. Mr. "I love the GRE" is also a regular. We know his problem: he rocked the GRE! Well, guess what. My overall score is in the 96th percentile. I taught Kaplan courses (SAT, GRE, MCAT) for 3 years. I know standardized tests inside and out. And it turns out standardized tests are: (A) Easy to crack ( Completely meaningless If you got a great score, CONGRATULATIONS! Be proud of yourself! You are probably very smart and/or worked very hard to get there. But stop pretending people with lower scores are somehow less qualified than you are for a graduate education. You're just being rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadianpolsci Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Mr. I teach at Kaplan: we all want get into grad school. That is why we take the GRE seriously. Obviously its a so-so test in all respects. Calm down, no one is being rude (well -- maybe you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanJames Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 1. Having a good GRE score isn't a problem, thus that can't be Mr. (or Ms.) I Love the GRE's problem 2. Nobody is saying that having a good GRE score makes you neccesarily better than others. It's not perfect, but it's a somewhat useful tool in determining an applicant's abilities 3. Would you prefer that there be no standardized measure to evaluate students? 4. How do people know their overall percentile on the GRE? 5. If GRE scores are meaningless, why did you feel the need to drop your percentile? Saying you taught Kaplan courses would have been enough to support your argument. P.S. There are plenty of people who scored higher than me on the GRE. I did well, but I definently did not "rock the GRE." It just seems reasonable to me that there be some objectivity in the admissions process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I think the GRE is basically used as it should be: to cull poor applications. Given that you can rewrite the GRE to get rid of statistical anomalies there is basically no reason why your score should be awful. There is no way a school like Caltech will say 'oh wow 800 on the quantitative you are accepted'; their average acceptance is 790 in engineering, everyone has high scores. Conversely a sub 750 score will probably result in an instant visit to the trash bin. The GRE doesn't give any insight into the nature of the top applicants just serves as a handy first cut. On the other hand a great LOR from a legend in the field, or a list of first author journal pubs, or a perfect GPA from a top institution probably will get you acceptance. I think basically my point is that the GRE is irrelevant.... as long as you don't screw it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nertperson Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Canadianpolisci, I am SO glad you replied, because you are specifically the person I was referring to as "rude". It seems to me that your posts are often demeaning, belittling, and condescending. Also I love that you assumed I was "Mr" Kaplan; I hope it's not that you assume everyone with a high GRE score must be male! So to continue, having a good GRE score is not a problem, but having a lousy attitude about your great GRE score and throwing objectivity to the wind certainly is (sorry, I'm a scientist!) I "dropped" my percentile (which was established through a Kaplan internal metric used to hire teachers, who must have a combined score over the 90th percentile) to establish that I was not just a sour grapes person with a low GRE score. I think objectivity would be GREAT. But let me tell you a little story. I once had a private tutoring student who paid almost $5,000 for her tutoring. Her quant score went from a 290 to a 730 (yeah, I'm that good). Does that sound like a level playing field to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanJames Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 You're right, I certainly didn't have the money to take classes or buy the books (ok, I could have bought the books, but I needed beer money). I just used the free resources and took the test. But as with pretty much everything else, establishing a level playing field is extremely difficult. Money also effects what school a person attends or how well they do in school. For example, I entered a pretty good undergrad as a freshman but had to leave due to financial problems. Don't take that as me complaining though, because I have it way better than most people. So money doesn't just influence GRE scores, it influences the whole process. All in all, life is unfair, but I find the GRE to be more objective than GPA. The LORs should probably be the most important part of the application. By the way, I didn't mean to be rude, I just come off that way sometimes. For the engineer, I agree. For engineers, mathematicians and most scientists the GRE is useless. But, I do think it is useful when evaluating prospective students in the social sciences and humanities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesotan Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Canadianpolisci, I am SO glad you replied, because you are specifically the person I was referring to as "rude". It seems to me that your posts are often demeaning, belittling, and condescending. Also I love that you assumed I was "Mr" Kaplan; I hope it's not that you assume everyone with a high GRE score must be male! Let's try to steer this conversation away from the personal, please, Ms. Kaplan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising_star Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 But as with pretty much everything else, establishing a level playing field is extremely difficult. Money also effects what school a person attends or how well they do in school. For example, I entered a pretty good undergrad as a freshman but had to leave due to financial problems. Don't take that as me complaining though, because I have it way better than most people. So money doesn't just influence GRE scores, it influences the whole process. All in all, life is unfair, but I find the GRE to be more objective than GPA. The LORs should probably be the most important part of the application. I completely agree with the difficulties of establishing a level playing field. The GRE will never be objective, just like grades aren't. Not everyone can go to an Ivy League school (prohibitive factors include cost, availability of advanced courses in high school, SAT scores, being read to as a child by your parents), which completely affects your ability to get into graduate school. I feel like this entire conversation, which I haven't really weighed in on yet, is getting way out of hand. The question was about cutoff scores. The answer is that each department and discipline has its own cutoff scores. I mean, the graduate school minimums of 1000 or 1100 or whatever are just weedout scores. You may not like it but that's just the way it is. GPA cutoffs are somewhat arbitrary too, particularly since some schools grade tougher than others. All you can hope is that they know about how your school grades. My undergrad institution is notorious/infamous for having changed its grading policy and inducing others too follow... Mod note: Lay off the personal attacks or bans will start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaraAnn85 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 All you can hope is that they know about how your school grades. My undergrad institution is notorious/infamous for having changed its grading policy and inducing others too follow... That's another really good point. A 3.9 from one school most definitely is not a 3.9 from another. I would like to think that they take that into consideration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmh26 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Ok, Just my two cents: My GRE scores were not great, 590 V, 540 math, and a 5.5 writing. I have a very high gpa, and 3.97 gpa in my major. I have completed research and received many grants, scholarships, etc to fund research and study abroad opps. I applied to a top 20 history phd program, and received an email that notified me as being one of their top candidates, and received an interview. The lady I spoke to was very nice, encouraging, and very enthusiastic about my application. She even told me that she would hand deliver my documents to another department for a fellowship offered by the state department, because she felt I had a very good chance of receiving it. She told me everything in my file was excellent; however, she didn't understand why my verbal score was low. We talked about it, and she even told me that she doesn't feel the GRE is an accurate test, and that her brother who is not smart, scores high...and that her sister, who is super smart, scored low on it! She asked me about my sat scores, act scores, etc...and told me that she would write in my file that my scores don't reflect my success as a student. She even told me that her department could care less about the math score..lol So maybe that helps some of you. I would have to disagree with Minnesotan on this , but I could be wrong. I think it depends on your department, and their specific programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polisciapp Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 That sounds right, especially for history. I don't think the GRE can accurately predict much, let alone your ability as a historian. I would think that it plays a minimal role in your application. Just for the record, did you receive an interview recently, or are you talking about a different application cycle? If so, what subfield(s), school, and when did you hear? Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesotan Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Ok, Just my two cents: My GRE scores were not great, 590 V, 540 math, and a 5.5 writing. I have a very high gpa, and 3.97 gpa in my major. I have completed research and received many grants, scholarships, etc to fund research and study abroad opps. I applied to a top 20 history phd program, and received an email that notified me as being one of their top candidates, and received an interview. The lady I spoke to was very nice, encouraging, and very enthusiastic about my application. She even told me that she would hand deliver my documents to another department for a fellowship offered by the state department, because she felt I had a very good chance of receiving it. She told me everything in my file was excellent; however, she didn't understand why my verbal score was low. We talked about it, and she even told me that she doesn't feel the GRE is an accurate test, and that her brother who is not smart, scores high...and that her sister, who is super smart, scored low on it! She asked me about my sat scores, act scores, etc...and told me that she would write in my file that my scores don't reflect my success as a student. She even told me that her department could care less about the math score..lol So maybe that helps some of you. I would have to disagree with Minnesotan on this , but I could be wrong. I think it depends on your department, and their specific programs. As much as I believe in keeping the program assistants on my side, I also understand that they have no say in the application process. I would be wary of any declarations secretaries make, even if they are "in the know." Nonetheless, I made a big deal of GRE scores only in their defense against the ravening hordes of naysayers. =) They are obviously only a part of the whole, and it appears all of the other parts of your application are nice and shiny. So, yeah, it's going to depend on the department, and on the specific people who evaluate you. And, although a 590v is atrocious for someone in the humanities, it is only ten points under the "cutoff" number other people have listed their programs as having, so maybe you lucked out. Or maybe that program didn't have fifty gajillion applicants for one spot - who knows. Again, I think the GRE is important, but it is only one piece of a larger puzzle. And, like I've told others, most people have a single hole in their app; as long as you're not applying to a top 5 program, you can easily highlight your successes to make up for your single failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NO8DO Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 And, although a 590v is atrocious for someone in the humanities... ...you can easily highlight your successes to make up for your single failure Isn't a 590 like 80% (give or take?) - I don't see how that's a failure, even in the humanities, especially when the verbal is much harder than the quant. Maybe my score is a complete failure, haha, but I just don't see how a 590 is - unless of course like you said you're referring only to these top 5 programs where anything below a 700 is effectively a failure. I'm not disagreeing with you whatsoever, the word 'failure', though, seems a bit strong in this case, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubitocogito Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I applied to a top 20 history phd program, and received an email that notified me as being one of their top candidates, and received an interview. Wow! Congratulations! As I am also applying for history, would you mind sharing the name of the institution? Best on your interview! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesotan Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Isn't a 590 like 80% (give or take?) The mean verbal score for people applying in history is 542. Based on that, I would guess 590 is under 60% among people who want to become historians. I wouldn't call that a success. Anyway, ETS breaks this stuff down by discipline on their website. You can do with the data what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmh26 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I would be wary of any declarations secretaries make, even if they are "in the know." Actually, it wasn't a secretary. It was a noted professor and editor of the top journal in my field. So I felt quite happy. It was for the phd program at the University of Kansas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanJames Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Totally off subject. Never underestimate the power of secretaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising_star Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 As much as I believe in keeping the program assistants on my side, I also understand that they have no say in the application process. I would be wary of any declarations secretaries make, even if they are "in the know." You and I have opposing takes on this, I guess. They have no say but they do have your file. They know what's missing, if you're being advanced for a fellowship, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesotan Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Maybe I'm in an unusual situation, but I've learned to ask people other than the PA in my current program. It never seems to work out when she gives me advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenleagueboot Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I've been lurking on this site for some time now and I have to say that this particular thread had me pretty bummed out. I didn't score that high on my GRE and I felt that it somehow meant I was stupid. I got a 640V, 530Q, and a 4.5AW. But you know, the day I took the exam my parents were driving me to the testing center (so I could study in the car and because I get lost easily), when my dad had an allergic reaction and got sick everywhere for the whole one and a half hours to the testing center. This meant my mom had to drive (she absolutely refuses to drive on highways normally) and I was so upset that I got sick and couldn't eat anything at all before the test. But my parents understood how important it was for me to take this test, so they got me there, I took it, and that was my score. I wanted to say that (with that score) I just got accepted the University of Wisconsin-Madison. So you applicants out there with low scores and/or extenuating circumstances, be it testing situations, learning disabilities, etc., you still can make it if you try. And no, I didn't mention a thing in my application about my testing situation. I figured that instead of making excuses (even though my dad ended up being hosptalized for blood-clots as a result, so that's how intense the situation was), they could take or leave me. Thankfully, they took me. So you can do it people! And yes, my father is doing much better now. I love my dad and my mom. They are my dedicated task-force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanJames Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Congrats Sevenleagueboot, I was one of the people who argued in favor of the GREs, but I don't want my perspective to be misconstrued by anyone. I'm sorry that I and posters like me may have bummed you out. I'm sure that when a person gets strong LoRs and meets the minimum GRE and GPA requirements, they have a good shot at being accepted at good schools. My personal point of view is that the GRE is useful, but it certainly isn't everything. In the end, we all have to remember that most of us are merely applicants and not admissions committee members and do not know exactly what will get us into graduate programs and what will keep us out. By the way, I'm insanely jealous of you right now and feel like I'm going to suffocate if I don't get a (positive) response from a school soon. Again, Congrats!!!! P.S. I hope your father is fine now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanJames Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Sorry, I didn't read the last line. I'm glad your father is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenleagueboot Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Thanks ammar! Good luck for your applications! I hope you hear back soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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