UChicago MA vs HDS MTS (for philosophy of religion)

[mangoparty]

Hi all. May I get some advice regarding choosing between the master's programs at UChicago and HDS? 

I am an international student with an MA in philosophy (I did my MA in my home country). My interest lies in philosophy or religion,  continental philosophy(esp. German idealism, Post-modernism), and the intersection of western and eastern philosophy(esp. Daoism). 

I've been accepted at UChicago and HDS, with 50% tuition coverage and full funding (with some stipend) respectively. And now I am undecided where to go.

As far as I know, UChicago is very strong in philosophy of religion and continental philosophy. I think the curriculum and faculty at UChicago fit me very well. It seems like I will be able to easily prepare myself for my future Phd application and doctoral work in the field if I choose to study there. I also know that UChicago pools about half of its Phd students from its MA program. And as it has a strong program in continental philosophy, I might be able to apply to Phd programs in philosophy as well. Still, half of the tuition and the living cost is pretty huge..

HDS, on the other hand, is much more affordable with the tuition remission. But it seems like I will get a more general than intense and integrated education there, at least in terms of my field of interest. Although HDS is obviously a prestigious place, I am not sure if it would be as strong as UChicago in training myself in the field of philosophy of religion. 

I will appreciate any advice and insight from anyone.

Thanks! 

 

 

[xypathos]

What degree at HDS were you specifically admitted to?

Also, fuck Chicago in this case. It's a great school and would prepare you well but Harvard is an amazing school and you'll have full access to the rest of the university. 50% tuition, living expenses, etc in Chicago will still be a metric buttload of money. What happens if you don't get into a PhD or you come to realize that you don't want to do it? Now you've got debt (presumably). At HDS, your debt would be massively lower and you could still construct a degree to make yourself an exceptional applicant to PhD programs.

Don't spend more than three seconds thinking about this, go with HDS' offer.

[chaotic]

2 hours ago, mangoparty said:

Hi all. May I get some advice regarding choosing between the master's programs at UChicago and HDS? 

I am an international student with an MA in philosophy (I did my MA in my home country). My interest lies in philosophy or religion,  continental philosophy(esp. German idealism, Post-modernism), and the intersection of western and eastern philosophy(esp. Daoism). 

I've been accepted at UChicago and HDS, with 50% tuition coverage and full funding (with some stipend) respectively. And now I am undecided where to go.

As far as I know, UChicago is very strong in philosophy of religion and continental philosophy. I think the curriculum and faculty at UChicago fit me very well. It seems like I will be able to easily prepare myself for my future Phd application and doctoral work in the field if I choose to study there. I also know that UChicago pools about half of its Phd students from its MA program. And as it has a strong program in continental philosophy, I might be able to apply to Phd programs in philosophy as well. Still, half of the tuition and the living cost is pretty huge..

HDS, on the other hand, is much more affordable with the tuition remission. But it seems like I will get a more general than intense and integrated education there, at least in terms of my field of interest. Although HDS is obviously a prestigious place, I am not sure if it would be as strong as UChicago in training myself in the field of philosophy of religion. 

I will appreciate any advice and insight from anyone.

Thanks! 

 

 

Well, if your subfield is philosophy of religion, it would be wise to choose to Chicago. You also need to consider the living expense. Living in Boston and Cambridge area is extremely expensive. (If you want to study comparative religion, HDS is the right place for you.) However, considering the course of study and living expense, I would say Chicago would be be the best place for you to study.

[marXian]

16 hours ago, xypathos said:

What degree at HDS were you specifically admitted to?

Also, fuck Chicago in this case. It's a great school and would prepare you well but Harvard is an amazing school and you'll have full access to the rest of the university. 50% tuition, living expenses, etc in Chicago will still be a metric buttload of money. What happens if you don't get into a PhD or you come to realize that you don't want to do it? Now you've got debt (presumably). At HDS, your debt would be massively lower and you could still construct a degree to make yourself an exceptional applicant to PhD programs.

Don't spend more than three seconds thinking about this, go with HDS' offer.

Taking on debt and paying for a M* degree is a risk that almost all of us assume when we decide to go down this path. We can get into whether that is right or wrong, but barring that, if you know for sure right now that you want to do a PhD focused on continental philosophy of religion, then this is...not great advice.

I'm in the field in which you're interested in, at the end of my PhD. Doesn't mean I know everything, but I'm telling you: Go to UChicago. Harvard does not have the faculty in this field that Chicago does. You need to go to Chicago and study with Sarah Hammerschlag, Ryan Coyne, Arnold Davidson, etc. Not only are there great faculty resources in the div school, but the Committee on Social Thought is there and that faculty is, frankly, invaluable for the kind of preparation you'll want to get into a top PhD program. There really is no comparison. Is it necessary to go to Chicago to pursue your interests? No, but chances are higher that you'll end up in a better PhD program if you do. Harvard is not everything, not at this level, and not if your interests are narrow enough to fall under continental philosophy and religion. Very few people do that well, which means your choices of PhD department are going to be much more limited than, say, someone who does American religious history. In academia, we need every advantage we can get, and in your case, going to Chicago would be an advantage.

You can find places to live in Chicago (I live there currently, though I'm not a UChicago student) that are perfectly safe, far less expensive than Hyde Park, and within reasonable distance from campus. I'm not going to say definitively that it wouldn't still be more expensive than living near Harvard, since I don't know that much about the area, but I have a hard time believing that Cambridge and surrounding areas are that much more affordable than what you could find in Chicago.

[mangoparty]

Thanks guys for your insights! 

20 hours ago, xypathos said:

What degree at HDS were you specifically admitted to? 

1

It's the MTS degree!   

2 hours ago, marXian said:

Taking on debt and paying for a M* degree is a risk that almost all of us assume when we decide to go down this path. We can get into whether that is right or wrong, but barring that, if you know for sure right now that you want to do a PhD focused on continental philosophy of religion, then this is...not great advice.

I'm in the field in which you're interested in, at the end of my PhD. Doesn't mean I know everything, but I'm telling you: Go to UChicago. Harvard does not have the faculty in this field that Chicago does. You need to go to Chicago and study with Sarah Hammerschlag, Ryan Coyne, Arnold Davidson, etc. Not only are there great faculty resources in the div school, but the Committee on Social Thought is there and that faculty is, frankly, invaluable for the kind of preparation you'll want to get into a top PhD program. There really is no comparison. Is it necessary to go to Chicago to pursue your interests? No, but chances are higher that you'll end up in a better PhD program if you do. Harvard is not everything, not at this level, and not if your interests are narrow enough to fall under continental philosophy and religion. Very few people do that well, which means your choices of PhD department are going to be much more limited than, say, someone who does American religious history. In academia, we need every advantage we can get, and in your case, going to Chicago would be an advantage.

You can find places to live in Chicago (I live there currently, though I'm not a UChicago student) that are perfectly safe, far less expensive than Hyde Park, and within reasonable distance from campus. I'm not going to say definitively that it wouldn't still be more expensive than living near Harvard, since I don't know that much about the area, but I have a hard time believing that Cambridge and surrounding areas are that much more affordable than what you could find in Chicago.

Yeah, it certainly seems very expensive living in Cambridge. But I can choose to live in one of the residence halls, and then my living costs will be lesser than the half of the UChicago tuition. I agree with you that UChicago would be the best choice if I am to pursue my interest in the specific area, but yeah, it's the money...  Maybe I should try asking an increased amount of funding by contacting the office, although I don't know how it will be perceived like. 

What if I take courses outside HDS to get myself more exposed to continental philosophy? I can take courses at BU and BC. 

 

[sacklunch]

You need to check into what HDS will and will not let you take should you go there (from what I understand Chicago's MA lets you take basically whatever courses you want). If they let you opt out of a lot or most of the general fluff coursework (i.e. they give you advanced placement) then there is very little reason to go to Chicago and pay tens of thousands. If money is not an option, then, yes go to Chicago.

[sacklunch]

6 minutes ago, mangoparty said:

Thanks guys for your insights! 

It's the MTS degree!   

Yeah, it certainly seems very expensive living in Cambridge. But I can choose to live in one of the residence halls, and then my living costs will be lesser than the half of the UChicago tuition. I agree with you that UChicago would be the best choice if I am to pursue my interest in the specific area, but yeah, it's the money...  Maybe I should try asking an increased amount of funding by contacting the office, although I don't know how it will be perceived like. 

What if I take courses outside HDS to get myself more exposed to continental philosophy? I can take courses at BU and BC. 

 

This may have changed, but in the past the BTI schools (HDS, BC, BU, etc.) allowed students to take up to 50% of their classes at the other member schools. Thus you could, if this policy still stands, take half of your classes at BC or BU, while still receiving the HDS MTS. 

[HBgrad2017]

I see this as a no-brainer. Definitely take the Harvard route.

 

Let's be real. You're not going to get TONS of intense preparation in a master's degree for your SPECIFIC field (at least in my experience and observations). Yeah, maybe if you're lucky you'll get a class, maybe two, related to your particular interests. But no matter where you go you'll end up taking whatever coursework is being offered. I see the MA as a time of getting your academic bearings more than for intense specialization preparation. Get some of the grunt work out of the way (theory and method, languages, etc. etc...) then use the PhD to really narrow in. I mean... there's no way that it's going to be impossible to study philosophy of religion or cont. phil at Harvard... you'll definitely be able to take top-notch classes in those fields at Harvard, so you might as well take the cheap route...

[HBgrad2017]

After reading MarXian's comments I feel like I should disclose that know basically nothing with respect to studies in philosophy. So I mean, if Harvard really will just flat out not be able to prepare you for what you want to do... maybe Chicago??

 

But the way I see it, the PhD is (obviously...) more important than the MA. So why not worry about getting "the perfect school" when worrying about PhD acceptances. I also personally like the idea of doing an MA at a school different than your PhD in order to get a broader perspective (although, disclosure, this is not what I ended up doing). So why not shoot for Chicago for the PhD and just worry about staying financially responsible for the MA?

I'll also say.... if your end goal is UChicago the MA students sometimes have a tendency of being nasty competitive since they're all eyeing one of the few PhD acceptances of a UChicago MA gard. This obviously varies by cohort, but just know ahead of time that it can sometimes be an less-than-friendly environment that you'll be in for 2 years.

[sacklunch]

1 hour ago, HBgrad2017 said:

After reading MarXian's comments I feel like I should disclose that know basically nothing with respect to studies in philosophy. So I mean, if Harvard really will just flat out not be able to prepare you for what you want to do... maybe Chicago??

 

But the way I see it, the PhD is (obviously...) more important than the MA. So why not worry about getting "the perfect school" when worrying about PhD acceptances. I also personally like the idea of doing an MA at a school different than your PhD in order to get a broader perspective (although, disclosure, this is not what I ended up doing). So why not shoot for Chicago for the PhD and just worry about staying financially responsible for the MA?

I'll also say.... if your end goal is UChicago the MA students sometimes have a tendency of being nasty competitive since they're all eyeing one of the few PhD acceptances of a UChicago MA gard. This obviously varies by cohort, but just know ahead of time that it can sometimes be an less-than-friendly environment that you'll be in for 2 years.

You will encounter this competitive streak among some M* students everywhere. While far from a truism, many students are admitted to PhD programs at the same school they did their M* at. I do think you're right that much of one's M* is not focused on specific kinds of courses. But it would be going too far to say that M* coursework makes little difference for getting into doctoral programs of interest. It's true, I think, that having a PhD from an R1 does help you land TT jobs (or hell, a job period!); but such institutional weight is not the same for R1 M* alums, largely because R1 M* in religion/divinity have very low admission standards compared with other fields (even the "best" MDiv programs regularly accept 50%+; cf. the > 5-10% for all R1 PhD programs). 

I'm not saying that if HDS has no coursework in your area of interest then you should go to Chicago and pay all that money (I think you should go to HDS, for what it's worth). I am saying that you should check into HDS policy about what you can and can't take as an MTS student so you can make the best use of your time there. Your subfield will have certain expectations of all successful doctoral applications. Your MTS should attempt to meet at least some of these expectations. For many of us, one of those expectations is language study; your application will simply be thrown to the side if you apply to, say, a program in medieval church history and you haven't studied (a lot of) Latin, and so on. What are these expectations for your subfield? That's why you're here. But there are better ways. Most of the users here are applying to grad programs (esp. M*), but have not yet "proven" themselves and thus their comments on what these expectations are vary greatly. One of the best ways you can learn about what is expected in your subfield is talking to doctoral students at programs of interest. Email them and simply ask; they are usually more than willing to tell you what you need to be doing in your M* (don't waste your time at this point emailing faculty). 

cheers

Edited March 14, 2018 by sacklunch

[kaaat]

I'm in a similar situation after receiving a couple different offers! I don't know enough to comment on your field but some important financial considerations(just food for thought): how much do you already have in debt/student loans? Do you have any savings? Are you willing to work part-time while in school? Are you married or do you have a significant other that works full-time/has earning potential to make it easier for you? 

Good luck with your decision and I'm sure you'll end up where you need to be

[kaaat]

I just re-read and realized you're an international student, so is my husband. In that case, go with the full funding offer!!

[Rabbit Run]

I think HDS is the clear choice here. Full tuition + stipend for a Masters degree in religion is a rare opportunity that you should take, even if Chicago is a better fit. You can certainly be trained in philosophy of religion at HDS, especially considering the resources of the BTI. Part of Masters programs is allowing your interests to be shaped by your mentors to some degree meaning, I take it, that if you go to HDS you won't have regretted it at the end. Best wishes with the decision.

[mangoparty]

 Thank you all for your insightful comments!!!  

Edited March 15, 2018 by mangoparty