HARRIS MPP V.S. SIPA MPA

[striveto_!]

Hi all !

Need your suggestions. I've  been accepted to Harris MPP and SIPA MPA (International finance and economic policy concentration). Both are my dream programs, so I 'm totally at loss. 

Harris: 

pros: quantitative training & programming courses (would be useful in job hunting)

cons: not enough internship opportunities & safety problem & cold weather

SIPA:

pros: perfect location & strong network & more international (maybe)

cons: too many  students with limited career service & not so solid course design

BTW: I am an international student  with an undergraduate major in language learning. I prefer to go to finance or consulting industry after graduation. If staying in the U.S. is not possible, I would go back to my country. 

Which school would you recommend? Please list your reasons if possible. 

Thank you in advance for those who reply !

[heyitsme]

This is a dilemma many of us are facing, and I think I'll wait some time to gather my thoughts or to listen to others. But here's an initial input: as an American who's been to Chicago before and who has friends living in different parts of the city, I would not consider safety to be a concern at or near the U Chicago campus - you should be fine on that front!

[striveto_!]

@heyitsme

Thank you so much for telling me this ! I've been to Columbia before but never been to Chicago so I worried a lot about the safety issue after hearing some rumors. I guess it was some stereotype from the outsiders' view. Now cons of Harris -1   Please do tell me your choice when you make your final decision !  Thanks again !

[lackey]

Similar situation. For many reasons I am leaning Harris over Columbia. I've lived on the UChicago campus for a while and the crime rate is obviously above average but they have a lot of police to help out with that. It has gotten markedly better over the past 5 years. That being said, common sense is one of the best protectors you can have. Criminals look for easy targets, and there are more of those than you think (going alone at night, wearing headphones in the streets--consequences are worse in summer). South campus is the least safe part but there has been a lot of gentrification of that area, so the 'locus' of crime has been pushed south of the university a few more streets.

[Tk2356]

I’m leaning towards SIPA for a few reasons: 

- The quarter system doesn’t seem as conducive to intern/work during the school year. This is important for me as I have other work commitments in the summer

- Most Harris grads stay in Chicago, most SIPA grads stay in NYC. I prefer NYC. Add-on: SIPA has better DC connections

- Columbia (and SIPA) are better known in Western Europe — important for my wife and me in case we decide to move back at some point

- The foreign language incorporation at SIPA is a plus (MPA concentrating in EPD)

- Harris’s reputation of being more theory-centric than most is a negative for me

- Harris’s class size will be larger than previous years. That could spread their existing connections a little thin when searching for post-graduation employment

All that said, if SIPA cost >20k than Harris for me, I’d probably be leaning the other way.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Tk2356

[lackey]

14 minutes ago, Tk2356 said:

I’m leaning towards SIPA for a few reasons: 

- The quarter system doesn’t seem as conducive to intern/work during the school year. This is important for me as I have other work commitments in the summer

- Most Harris grads stay in Chicago, most SIPA grads stay in NYC. I prefer NYC. Add-on: SIPA has better DC connections

- Columbia (and SIPA) are better known in Western Europe — important for my wife and me in case we decide to move back down at some point

- The foreign language incorporation at SIPA is a plus (MPA concentrating in EPD)

- Harris’s reputation of being more theory-centric than most is a negative for me

- Harris’s class size will be larger than previous years. That could spread their existing connections a little thin when searching for post-graduation employment

All that said, if SIPA cost >20k than Harris for me, I’d probably be leaning the other way.

Points 4 and 5 were concerns for me as well. They tried to say they had economies of scale and that's why class size is increasing, but it still arguably detracts from the educational experience. I'm also much more of a fan of the HKS educational model (great pol electives and practical training) than theory-based UChicago. That all being said, Harris is a wonderful school and I'm relieved to have one non-NYC option.

[ExponentialDecay]

Assuming both programs cost the same, if your Harris program is the one that gives 3 years OPT, go to that one. 3 years OPT is a concrete benefit that no one can take away from you. All this network/internationalness/career services is handwavy bullshit that may or may not be true in your case. 

If SIPA works out to be considerably cheaper, go there. But be careful about how  you price extended OPT: you can always make more money, but no amount of money will buy you a work visa.

[striveto_!]

2 hours ago, lackey said:

Points 4 and 5 were concerns for me as well. They tried to say they had economies of scale and that's why class size is increasing, but it still arguably detracts from the educational experience. I'm also much more of a fan of the HKS educational model (great pol electives and practical training) than theory-based UChicago. That all being said, Harris is a wonderful school and I'm relieved to have one non-NYC option.

@lackey

I went to a recent meet-up held by Harris. They said approximately 300 students are enrolled including all four programs this year, but  before, that was only 150. For SIPA, I saw the student profile on its website, saying 300 students were in the class of 2017. So maybe the class size ends in a draw? 

BTW, do you think the dilemma like this would be different for a student with no work experience? (I am in my fourth year in the college)

[lackey]

6 minutes ago, striveto_! said:

@lackey

I went to a recent meet-up held by Harris. They said approximately 300 students are enrolled including all four programs this year, but  before, that was only 150. For SIPA, I saw the student profile on its website, saying 300 students were in the class of 2017. So maybe the class size ends in a draw? 

BTW, do you think the dilemma like this would be different for a student with no work experience? (I am in my fourth year in the college)

I also have no full time work experience and am figuring out what to do based on that (aka what will DC look like in June 2020 as opposed to now?). I know Harris' blog post said over the past two years, the MPP class size doubled twice. So I have no idea what that means for the total math this year based on what you said. 

[striveto_!]

2 hours ago, Tk2356 said:

I’m leaning towards SIPA for a few reasons: 

- The quarter system doesn’t seem as conducive to intern/work during the school year. This is important for me as I have other work commitments in the summer

- Most Harris grads stay in Chicago, most SIPA grads stay in NYC. I prefer NYC. Add-on: SIPA has better DC connections

- Columbia (and SIPA) are better known in Western Europe — important for my wife and me in case we decide to move back at some point

- The foreign language incorporation at SIPA is a plus (MPA concentrating in EPD)

- Harris’s reputation of being more theory-centric than most is a negative for me

- Harris’s class size will be larger than previous years. That could spread their existing connections a little thin when searching for post-graduation employment

All that said, if SIPA cost >20k than Harris for me, I’d probably be leaning the other way.

@Tk2356

I do agree with your first point. The quarter semester seems really unfriendly to internships. 

The biggest concern I have over SIPA is that it is more designed for professionals with work experience, but I am graduating this year with only internships. I am not sure whether the course design of SIPA would suit me or not. I guess people with work experience would return to their work after graduation from SIPA, but for me, I have to explore more. Do you think this would be a disadvantage for me? Thx!

[Tk2356]

27 minutes ago, striveto_! said:

@Tk2356

I do agree with your first point. The quarter semester seems really unfriendly to internships. 

The biggest concern I have over SIPA is that it is more designed for professionals with work experience, but I am graduating this year with only internships. I am not sure whether the course design of SIPA would suit me or not. I guess people with work experience would return to their work after graduation from SIPA, but for me, I have to explore more. Do you think this would be a disadvantage for me? Thx!

To each their own, but I’m of the opinion that a few years experience is a huge benefit for attending all of these programs — not just SIPA. I’m (a crusty) 31, and it took me more than a few years after graduating to decide what exactly I want to do next in life, all the while gaining valuable experience that helped guide my decision. I’m a slow learner, though   And if you do end up liking your chosen field, you’ll be much more competitive for fellowships than someone straight out of undergrad.

If you’re set on grad school now, though, I don’t think the course design at SIPA would put you at a severe disadvantage compared to Harris. The average age of an incoming MPA/MIA at SIPA is 26 — Harris’s can’t be much younger. There is probably much greater opportunity to get “lost”, though, as the courses offered at SIPA are much more numerous. Just my two cents!

[lackey]

6 minutes ago, Tk2356 said:

To each their own, but I’m of the opinion that a few years experience is a huge benefit for attending all of these programs — not just SIPA. I’m (a crusty) 31, and it took me more than a few years after graduating to decide what exactly I want to do next in life, all the while gaining valuable experience that helped guide my decision. I’m a slow learner, though   And if you do end up liking your chosen field, you’ll be much more competitive for fellowships than someone straight out of undergrad.

If you’re set on grad school now, though, I don’t think the course design at SIPA would put you at a severe disadvantage compared to Harris. The average age of an incoming MPA/MIA at SIPA is 26 — Harris’s can’t be much younger. There is probably much greater opportunity to get “lost”, though, as the courses offered at SIPA are much more numerous. Just my two cents!

Maybe the Harris admit day isn't a representative population (there were 300+ there!), but many of the people I talked to for MPP had five plus years of experience and were worried about the transition to school. So it seems that being out for too long also has some disadvantages. Can be hard to add up w/o anything concrete.

[Tk2356]

Oh I’m definitely worried about the transition to school! I’m more just talking about investing so much money into something when, without much real-world experience, it’s hard to know if the field is for you. At 22, I was sure I would spend my career in military intelligence. Fast-forward 9 Years and I’m now very happy I am able to easily change careers — an option that wouldn’t be so easy if younger-me had taken on loads of debt. An MPA/MPP seems to work well in different sectors, though, so that works in your favor.

Again, to each their own. I would just advise against taking on loads of debt for one of these programs without seriously considering working for a few years, reapplying, and likely receiving better funding opportunities.

You know what’s best for your situation, though. 

[anmanya]

I had a few questions and would be so glad if anyone could help me out in this regard. Considering nil scholarship from both these schools (and with a year of work ex),

-In terms of job prospects, is Harris better in comparison to SIPA because of the course structure?

-Academic training wise, with regard to skill set development, I've heard Harris is much better. Is that so?

- given the sort of feedback for Columbia, under which circumstance would you suggest someone to opt for SIPA hands down? 

I just can't seem to figure out which one to go for. 

Also any views on Duke Vs these two schools?

[striveto_!]

8 hours ago, anmanya said:

I had a few questions and would be so glad if anyone could help me out in this regard. Considering nil scholarship from both these schools (and with a year of work ex),

-In terms of job prospects, is Harris better in comparison to SIPA because of the course structure?

-Academic training wise, with regard to skill set development, I've heard Harris is much better. Is that so?

- given the sort of feedback for Columbia, under which circumstance would you suggest someone to opt for SIPA hands down? 

I just can't seem to figure out which one to go for. 

Also any views on Duke Vs these two schools?

1. It's hard to say which one is better. SIPA has a stronger network in NY and DC than Harris. But more opportunities may mean more competition. I have no idea what your career plan is, but if it is about some position at UNICEF, a friend of mine called them before and they said too many SIPA students are working there so they won't offer any position to students from SIPA. (sigh)

2. I have compared the course design of the two, and personally I prefer that of Harris as it includes programming and is more data-driven. (I am really interested in data analysis.) But there is also a saying that Harris focuses too much on theory rather than practice. Hard to know whether it is the real situation. 

I was on the waitlist of Duke, so can't help you with this part.  I guess the location of Duke would be the most disadvantage compared with the other two. 

[anmanya]

On 3/14/2018 at 7:24 AM, striveto_! said:

1. It's hard to say which one is better. SIPA has a stronger network in NY and DC than Harris. But more opportunities may mean more competition. I have no idea what your career plan is, but if it is about some position at UNICEF, a friend of mine called them before and they said too many SIPA students are working there so they won't offer any position to students from SIPA. (sigh)

2. I have compared the course design of the two, and personally I prefer that of Harris as it includes programming and is more data-driven. (I am really interested in data analysis.) But there is also a saying that Harris focuses too much on theory rather than practice. Hard to know whether it is the real situation. 

I was on the waitlist of Duke, so can't help you with this part.  I guess the location of Duke would be the most disadvantage compared with the other two. 

Hey, thank you so much for your answer! 

Just a quick follow-up: I'm an international student who has a keen interest in exploring questions pertaining to inequality and informalization of labour sector, but from an international perspctive.

1)From what I've heard, Harris is very domestic, but that being said, the quant skills are certainly an add-on factor. My concern is that most chicago internships and jobs are very local-focused. While for SIPA, it's much more international and the network is wider in comparison. While I am leaning slightly towards SIPA, my concern is that Harris is costing me 30k lesser in just tuition. If I consider, living costs, I'm assuming it might be even cheaper to SIPA.

2) Plus, my another worry is that given my profile of 1 year of work ex, would it be tough to fit into SIPA (cuz it's a professional school)? Since it's more leadership and management oriented. While Harris is more research oriented. Or would you suggest that flexibility to tweak MPA at SIPA in that direction exists (tailor it to one's need).

I guess the main dilemma comes down to the cost factor. 

Any thoughts would be much appreciated! This forum has been super helpful in my admission process tbh.

[Charitarth]

On 3/13/2018 at 7:33 PM, ExponentialDecay said:

Assuming both programs cost the same, if your Harris program is the one that gives 3 years OPT, go to that one. 3 years OPT is a concrete benefit that no one can take away from you. All this network/internationalness/career services is handwavy bullshit that may or may not be true in your case. 

If SIPA works out to be considerably cheaper, go there. But be careful about how  you price extended OPT: you can always make more money, but no amount of money will buy you a work visa.

Hi, I found this post particularly helpful as an international student as it sheds some light on the prospects of recovering your investment on the degree and would be a forceful consideration in choosing one school over the other. Any clue as to whether this is true? Does Harris provide you with a 3 year OPT versus a 1 year OPT after graduation?