MFA or PhD?

[toss_my_potatoes]

I am halfway through an MA in rhet/comp at a mid-ranked university. Currently, my area of interest is digital rhetoric; my dissertation is a discourse analysis of some famous and sort of pivotal internet stuff (think manifestos). However, I would like to move away from digital rhetoric and more into the rhetoric of life writing; many of my papers, including one I presented a bit ago at a conference, focus on personal writing, such as popular life writing, autobiography, biography, and some creative nonfiction. Fortunately, both of my mentors have been guiding me toward suitable PhD programs-- they seem a bit more theory-heavy and traditional than what I would like, but this field is certainly something I would like to pursue.

However, my other passion is life writing itself-- I'm writing an essay right now that I want to try to publish before all of these applications for Fall 2019 are due (fingers crossed)! I absolutely love the genre of memoir. It is my favorite type of writing to read on my own time, and I have really enjoyed experimenting with it this summer. 

The reason I'm asking this question is because I have teaching experience in college rhetoric/comp and I kind of hated it. Teaching in itself was fun, but the material was just not something I could not interest myself in. It was a struggle to frame everything in an exciting light for the students. But, I have tutored students in creative writing at another college, and TA'd in an advanced creative writing class, and it was awesome. In the end, I think I would like to pursue an MFA in order to teach fiction/life writing/autobiography, but the problem is, that isn't my background. I have one fiction workshop-esque course under my belt, and will be taking a creative nonfiction course next year, but that's about it.

Any advice is appreciated.

Bonus question: is there an equivalent program to Cornell's joint MFA/PhD program that isn't at Cornell? Just trying to be realistic here, lol.

Edited June 1, 2018 by toss_my_potatoes

[jrockford27]

That depends on what you want to do with your life. Disclaimer: I've never done an MFA but have friends who have/are.

 To state the obvious, and something I'm sure you already know, the expectations between writing a dissertation and writing an MFA thesis are wildly different.  While it might depend on your committee, a dissertation isn't likely to satisfy your appetite for memoiristic writing (I had a bit of that in dissertation initially, but had to cut it to make room for... you guessed it, more theory and analysis). The dissertation form traditionally does not allow for a lot of stylistic experimentation or inventiveness, as its purpose is (generally speaking) to be a work of lengthy, rigorous, and original research that makes a contribution to, and is in dialogue with the field.  For better or worse, that has generally come to mean a very specific kind of work and specific kind of writing.  

Of course, if/when I get to convert my diss into a book, I intend to restore the more personal, memoiristic touches, if my hypothetical editors approve. Fortunately there is a wide (usually very wide) gap between your dissertation, and the book you'll ultimately publish. But you may be delaying the gratification of realizing that goal for 4-6 years after you defend your dissertation. PhD time is glacial, it seems to me, compared to MFA time.

Likewise, if you don't like teaching English comp, then you're going to have a rough go at most English grad programs. That said, I know many grad students who vocalize their dislike for teaching comp, and even teaching generally, and still seem to be successful in their programs.

Based on your interests, it really sounds like the MFA is the way to go.  The best thing about the MFA in comparison is that it usually takes less than half as long as a PhD, and so depending on your age you'll still have plenty of life left to pursue a PhD if you want it. My PhD program is chockablock with MFA holders.

Edited June 1, 2018 by jrockford27

[GoneWilde]

Don't know about all the rest bc I am a lowly undergrad but I too have looked at MFA/PhD programs and there's one at Indiana Bloomington, and then the University of Houston and the University of Southern California have PhDs in both. I've also heard on this forum that some people can get into one and then create a hybrid program while at the school, even though one might not be published.

[rising_star]

The MFA job market might be even worse than the English PhD job market... That said, depending on your interests, you may also want to look into programs in Cultural Studies and/or Anthropology, where you might be able to both study memoir and do some lifewriting yourself.

[M(allthevowels)H]

Kind of piggybacking off of @jrockford27's point. I did an MFA first with the intent of using that time to A) hone writing skills and make connections and B ) talk myself out of getting a Lit PhD. The latter didn't work, obviously, but the former did. Based on your passion it almost seems like MFA first is the way to go (or if you can do one of the hybrids mentioned).

I wouldn't worry about your background. In MFA applications the whole "the sample is what matters" thing is 100% true. Your best bet is to use the summer to find a workshop/local writers group to go over your nonfiction work a million times. And obviously the Personal Statement is a slightly different can of worms than the Statement of Purpose, but you'll likely be good at it if you're already comfortable with memoir writing (Also, if you want I can send you mine from my MFA app).

HOWEVER if you expect to teach creative writing right out of your degree, the MFA might let you down. As  @rising_star mentioned, there isn't really an immediately Post-MFA job market. I've said somewhere on this forum before that the general expectations with Lit/Comp PhDs is that they qualify you to teach, where as with MFAs you'll be taught to make better art and then the strength of your publications down the road is what actually gets you teaching jobs that don't suck. It's a longer process, so you'd have to be okay with freelancing or working a non-creative job to support yourself while you do your creative work.

[Warelin]

If your ultimate goal is to teach creative writing, I'd recommend looking into either English PhD programs with a creative dissertation or a Creative Writing PhD program. 

I'd like to add a note here that Cornell University only has two tracks (fiction and poetry) for the MFA program. Nonfiction is still an often ignored portion of Creative Writing.

Some programs that offer Nonfiction as a track include:
Adelphi University
Bard College
Bennington University
University of Cincinnati
University of Houston
University of Rhode Island
University of Wyoming
University of Utah

As a side note, there are programs such as Washington University in St. Louis (WUSTL) and (@M(allthevowels)H, correct me if I'm wrong) Vanderbilt that allow their enrolled PHD students to enroll in their well-regarded Creative Writing courses.

[starrystarry]

This has been really useful to read! I'm a History major with an MA in Women's History, and applied to PhD programs in Literature this year (didn't make it past the waitlist to my top choice). My interests are largely in contemporary poetics, queer studies, and borderlands/hybridity, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what my next steps should be, if my writing sample or research needs to be framed in different, more traditionally literary ways. Most English departments I was interested in emphasized being interdisciplinary or an openness to such work, but its possible I'm outside enough of the discipline formally to not be reading that correctly. I'm currently considering an MFA in Poetry at Sarah Lawrence, and was wondering if anyone here had any ideas/suggestions about the interplay between MFAs and PhDs in terms of interdisciplinary interests. I'm an international student, so an MFA also gives me time to stay in the States and work on presenting at conferences, possibly getting more lit classes on my transcript, and being in touch with faculty more, but I wasn't sure if, given I already have a very unconventional background for someone applying for PhD in Literature, an MFA on my CV would make my academic interests easier to dismiss. 

[sunpuzzled]

On 6/1/2018 at 3:30 PM, rising_star said:

The MFA job market might be even worse than the English PhD job market... That said, depending on your interests, you may also want to look into programs in Cultural Studies and/or Anthropology, where you might be able to both study memoir and do some lifewriting yourself.

Not to derail from OP but it's interesting that you mention cultural studies. I am interested similarly in "life writing." I'm studying creative non fiction and poetry at an MFA now. Would you be able to point to some theorists or some people in the cultural studies field that work in a way that combines theory with literary writing? Someone that comes to mind for me is Gloria Anazaldua.