Help! Profile evaluation: awful math grades, otherwise strong

[nequality]

Hi everyone, longtime lurker here. I've trawled through tons of posts but haven't found any on exactly my situation, so I'd really appreciate any advice you can offer.

I'm aiming to apply for PhD programs in the upcoming cycle, and my math training/grades are a serious weak link in my application. 

 

Profile with the usual suspects:

School: Large public R1, top 25 USNWR

Subfield: Comparative

GRE: 170 V, 160 Q (5.5 AW, though I'm told no one cares)

GPA: 3.7ish overall and 3.85ish major, depending on how my final classes go

Letters of rec: 1 truly excellent from a thesis advisor well-known in my subfield, 2 passable

Research experience: 2 research projects (ethnographic independent study + thesis that used basic statistics), local conference presentations, think tank internships. No publications

Teaching experience: If you count leadership in some student clubs I can spin as academic 

Foreign language: Professional proficiency in Spanish and Mandarin, both of which I've used in research

 

Here's the problem:

Math courses: Single and multivariable calc (all C's). 1 introductory statistics course (A+), if that helps.

 

Would it be enough just to say that I'm working through Simon and Blume's "Mathematics for Economists" + Moore and Siegel's "A Mathematics Course for Political and Social Research?"

I'd love to get into a Top 20 program or Georgetown/George Washington. How could I improve my chances? I have some ideas, though I'm not sure which to prioritize:

- Should I try to wrangle my research projects into something publishable?

- Should I lobby hard / get down on my knees before my letter writers?

- Should I contact prospective advisors with a charm offensive?

- Should I retake the GRE and aim for a 165+ score? (I think I know the answer lol.)

- Should I take a calc/linear algebra course online from a CC? (This would be costly.)

Last option:

- Should I just expect not to suceed this round and plan to attend an MA program like MAPSS?

 

Thanks a ton. 

Edited June 9, 2018 by nequality
Typos and a detail I forgot

[dagnabbit]

Some thoughts:

1. I don't think the calculus grades are going to torpedo your applications. First, admissions committees understand that college-level math courses are substantially more difficult to ace than social science/humanities courses. Second, these courses are generally not required (de jure or de facto) for admission to political science PhD programs, and they are not required to understand and conduct quantitative research. Anecdote: a 3rd-year grad student at my (top 20, for what it's worth) program does sophisticated quantitative work, and recently mentioned to me that he never took a single math or stats course in undergrad. This is not uncommon, from my understanding.

2. In terms of how to best invest your time going forward, I would recommend against:

• Trying to publish current research projects. It's too time-consuming and the chances of publishing in a respectable venue as an undergrad are too low to make the risk worth the reward. Don't abandon your ideas, of course, but publishing is not the best goal at this stage
• In addition to the cost of tuition, the time that you would need to invest in taking math at a CC would be substantial. I don't think it will do much to increase your chances of admission, either.

Instead:

• If it is within your means, take the GRE again with less pressure and more focus on the quant section (you already have a very decent score). If you can improve your quant score by a few points or more, it would signal that your academic history does not accurately reflect your abilities.
• Talk to your thesis advisor about your self-study of S&B and Siegel's course, and maybe ask if he/she could speak to your quantitative skills in his/her letter. You could mention this yourself, of course, but I think it will be a lot more credible coming from a respected name in your field.

Best of luck!

 

[laekkauai]

For what it's worth, I think your profile will do just fine. Though I will say that I think letters of recommendation and the institutions that your references went to and your SOP are probably the most important aspects of your application. 

I have a poor math background, and so I mostly tried to avoid it in undergrad. But now that I'm looking for a career change, I'm switching to a STEM field. I applied to three programs (2 at top 10 schools, and another school in the midwest), and was admitted to two of them and unofficially admitted to another just a week ago in a joint masters/PhD program. Of course there is an understanding that I will have to take a calc course before starting two of the programs.

My GPA was around yours and even a little lower, and my GREs for Quant,Verbal, and AW were also below yours. I really think it's how you connect your purpose to the program you're applying to and your letters of rec and how they can vouch for your ability to do research/thrive in a PhD environment/contribute uniquely to the program (two of my recs were alum of the top school I applied to). Good luck!! I'm sure it will all go well!

Edited June 10, 2018 by laekkauai

[megabee]

If your other two letters of recommendation are only "passable", you may just need to get to know the writers better. Offer to do some free RA work for them if you can (I did a one hour per week RA gig and got a very nice letter out of it), haunt their offices for ten minutes once weekly or bi-weekly just to discuss the field. Getting their advice about grad school apps - where to apply, SOP reviews, etc. - is a great way to interact with them more and get them thinking about you as a scholar.

I second the advice previously shared on taking the GRE again (find the quant question types you aren't strong in and go in on the GRE math concepts pdf and Khan Academy videos - if it's within your means, Magoosh bumped my score up by seven points in one month and I highly suggest it) and getting your main letter writer to mention your independent studies.

[nequality]

Thank you all so much, these are great suggestions. I had never thought of asking one of my recommenders to mention my math self-study, will definitely do that. Really reassuring to hear that I'm still in the running – will plan to retake the GRE's and get to know my letter writers better. 

Thanks again, glad I finally decided to post this here!

(If anyone has a conflicting opinion, please post too, would very much appreciate your perspective. Don't be afraid to burst my bubble, better now than later!)

Edited June 10, 2018 by nequality
Added a note

[CarefreeWritingsontheWall]

I'm at an R1 and your math is already better than mine. I never took calculus in high school, didn't follow up on it in college and as a result had only linear algebra and advanced functions under my belt when I walked into my first semester econometrics course. During my MA I did take a bunch of quant courses and I attended ICPSR. I had all of these skills mentioned by LOR writers to boost what was a really bad GRE Q score. I wound up auditing a bunch of undergraduate calculus courses to catch up in my first year. Now I've made peace with the fact that I will never be a methodologist developing algorithms, and understanding when it was appropriate to use, and how to use econometrics was enough for me. 

[MrsPhD]

I would not say you are working through those books in your SoP. You are doing that on your own so it would not be useful information. 

Getting something publishable now seems too late.

It is better to ask those people that are going to write you "passable" letters if you can RA for them in the summer (now). Tell them you can work for free, because you would like more experience. If you don't tell them you can work for free they might decline. Also, are those people teaching a class you could take in the fall? If they are not teaching undergrad and they are teaching a grad seminar that is relevant for you, try to get in that. 

Will your thesis be your writing sample? A lot of departments are asking for writing samples.

 

 

 

[nequality]

@Carefree, thanks, that's great to hear. If things don't go my way this round, I'll be prepared to do a quant-heavy MA.

@MrsPhD Yes, the thesis will be my writing sample! Thank you for your advice. Do you mind if I ask what your concerns would be if you were sitting on my admissions committee? Ex. This guy will struggle with our methods sequence, doesn't show enough professional promise, hard worker but not that smart, smart but not a hard worker, etc. I'm thinking that I should prepare different responses and counter-signals (is this a real word) depending on the concern.

Edited June 12, 2018 by nequality
Typo

[MrsPhD]

2 hours ago, nequality said:

@Carefree, thanks, that's great to hear. If things don't go my way this round, I'll be prepared to do a quant-heavy MA.

@MrsPhD Yes, the thesis will be my writing sample! Thank you for your advice. Do you mind if I ask what your concerns would be if you were sitting on my admissions committee? Ex. This guy will struggle with our methods sequence, doesn't show enough professional promise, hard worker but not that smart, smart but not a hard worker, etc. I'm thinking that I should prepare different responses and counter-signals (is this a real word) depending on the concern.

I think that if someone writes on your letter that you are interested in methods or if you signal that in your SOP, that would be good. A signal that you are eager to learn and will put the effort/time would be enough (if the rest of the package is relatively strong). Maybe you have already selected the classes for the last year, but if you haven't, maybe there is room to take another statistics or data science class (preferable applied to social science). That would be another way to signal interest without having to take a very heavy linear algebra class or something of that sort. If you take the class in the Spring you can have  one of your letter writers mention that along with your interest in working on your skills/tools. 

And I agree with others who have recommended that you take the GRE again. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by MrsPhD