Please either accept or reject offers!!

[StrangeLight]

nytusse, i'd send them an email rejection in any case. send it to the DGS, your potential advisor, and the grad secretary. it won't take long but it's more polite than just never responding. these are people you are going to see at conferences for the next forever years, so it's best to be exceedingly polite.

More importantly, can anyone speak in more concrete terms to the issue of better fellowships leading to better fellowships further along the PhD track? It seems somewhat unfair to award fellowships based on who already has fellowships (rather than on some other competitive basis), but I basically have no idea how graduate programs work. Also, is whether or not someone got some random "prestigious" fellowship at whatever program they went to really going to be a significant factor in terms of getting a teaching job (especially relative to factors like what program they're getting their PhD from, the strength of their dissertation, etc.)? It seems like kind of a minor issue to me, assuming that you are otherwise performing.

yes the fellowships are important. at my undergraduate institution, my thesis advisor told me that i should not accept any offer that came without a fellowship. she told me that there is a definite hierarchy that comes from holding fellowships. i know that in my program now, the students that entered with the best fellowships are the ones winning (year after year) the top dissertation research or dissertation writing fellowships. the students that started off as TAs are, for the most part, remaining TAs.

why? well, how else can you compare students? almost everyone in graduate school has an A-/A average (otherwise they're in a bit of trouble). so what on their CV will stand out? the only MA students with enough time to actually publish their theses are the ones on fellowships. teaching takes far longer than the 20 hours they claim (especially if you have a heavy grading load) so you're working hard just to finish your thesis and coursework, never mind polishing that thesis for publication before you start your comps and dissertation prospectus. and that's right around the time you're applying for these other fellowships anyway. what else could set you apart? conferences. but conference papers take time to write, too, and in general (there are always exceptions), i see people with TAships going to far fewer conferences than those without, due almost entirely to the amount of time they have.

the GPAs are the same. the LORs will either be good or glowing (and again, you're in trouble if they're neither). unless you're applying for a teaching award, they don't care if you're a good teacher or not. so what makes the difference? existing fellowships on the CV, publications, conference presentations. so no, holding a fellowship isn't the sole determinant for future fellowships, but it's about 1/3. more, when you consider that fellows have more time to work on publications and conference papers. there's not really any other way to compare students, unfortunately.

as for getting a job... holding some incoming first-year fellowship isn't that important, other than adding a line to your CV. but holding the dissertation research and dissertation writing fellowships do matter, because it attests to your ability to secure future fellowships and grants, which departments want their faculties to be able to do, even at teaching-oriented LACs.

i don't mean to discourage anyone with TAships only. it's definitely possible to secure fellowships throughout your graduate career, but you'll have more difficulty getting the best ones. every single professor i have ever heard talk about funding (at my grad school, undergrad, some prospective grad schools, and the mysterious realm of teh internetz) has said incoming fellowships are important for securing future fellowships which are important to have on CV when you apply for jobs anywhere, even LACs.

Edited March 19, 2010 by StrangeLight

[gcp]

One reason that the same people are awarded fellowships is that adjudicating committees, who see very little of you other than a read through your app, generally expect that those who have been successful before are worthy recipients. HOWEVER, I recently sat on a department hiring committee as the student representative, and I can tell you that teaching is VERY important (and we are very much a research-based university). Every applicant received awards at some point, and these were almost never considered at all. Publications, conference papers, and teaching experience were really the only important things, and even then, it was all about fit for the department. So even though TA-based funding may seem like the short end of the stick now, it helps you build a portfolio that those with only fellowships will be seriously lacking when it comes to applying for tenure-track positions.

[deuterides]

One reason that the same people are awarded fellowships is that adjudicating committees, who see very little of you other than a read through your app, generally expect that those who have been successful before are worthy recipients. HOWEVER, I recently sat on a department hiring committee as the student representative, and I can tell you that teaching is VERY important (and we are very much a research-based university). Every applicant received awards at some point, and these were almost never considered at all. Publications, conference papers, and teaching experience were really the only important things, and even then, it was all about fit for the department. So even though TA-based funding may seem like the short end of the stick now, it helps you build a portfolio that those with only fellowships will be seriously lacking when it comes to applying for tenure-track positions.

I have to agree, I also recently was a student rep. on a hiring board (although not for my major) and I dont think any of the readers looked at fellowships, ect. but publications and teaching were looked at extensively

[chlobot]

I have to agree, I also recently was a student rep. on a hiring board (although not for my major) and I dont think any of the readers looked at fellowships, ect. but publications and teaching were looked at extensively

I completely agree that teaching experience is crucial when it's time to get a job, but most fellowship students TA at some point in their careers prior to putting themselves on the market. Fellowships usually just free students up for a few years, after which most students supplement their income by teaching. Graduate coursework is so much more demanding than undergraduate coursework that being freed from teaching in the first one or two years can make a big difference in a student's performance. Also, it gives the student time to pursue research interests and give conference papers, which in turn increases CV quality.

[TMP]

Guys, don't you wish you were in my situation? I am directly in competition with my advisor's former MA student. We applied to 3 schools together (maybe 4 that I don't know about?) in exact same sub-field. She has gotten in FOUR out of seven. She's known about one of them since early February. At the time, she was just relieved that her hunt for a PhD acceptance was over (this is her 2nd round as well as mine). I was seriously pissed at the time because they had picked her over me. Then she got rejected from her dream school. Then offers started rolling in since the last week of February. Too bad that I was rejected from the first school that she was accepted because if I had been on the waitlist, I would've pressured her to turn that school down if she wasn't overly excited about it. Because I wanted to go there!

Now she's been accepted at one school that I've also received rejection from, and that's okay. It's not a good fit for me anymore.

She just got into my dream program from my last cycle. Had I not found 2 other schools that were much, much better fit for me and had more friendly environments, I would be seriously pissed again right now. But I just waitlisted at one of my schools (that she didn't apply to) and I'm thrilled. It also helps a bit right now that I haven't been notified yet from that school that she got into. Because... if I'm on the waitlist for that dream school, I would be telling her to make up her mind ASAP. And well, let's see what next week brings.

I'm not even going to ask what's her 4th acceptance.

What's amazing about all of this is that she's been acting spoiled and selfish. She absolutely refused to share notes with me and doing that has made me crazy over the last 6 weeks (Although I did send in a very polite message to her about this particular school that I have yet to hear that she had been waitlisted at two years ago and that's when she 'fessed up). But she did have the right to keep her privacy. I wish I could tell her to be please be considerate of how I am feeling because she was exactly in my shoes two years ago. Unlike most of us on the board, she wasn't overly elated about her first acceptance and couldn't appreciate anything until she got her acceptances from "better" schools, including a top 10. She's just very elitist and you know what? I'm just glad that there aren't a lot of people like her.

Honestly, if anything that I've learned from her attitude and perspectives from this board this year, I'm going to make a resolution to be very open minded about choosing schools next time. I don't have to be excited about the school's name. Only my academic peers and I can be excited about the names of professors that I'd be working with. My family and friends should make my happiness a top priority, not the name of the school. This is academia.

So yeah, welcome to the world of knowing someone else personally who is directly competing for the same spot with a spoiled attitude. It was a gamble to apply with her this year but it was something that I was willing to do.

Wish me luck in refraining from pressuring her to make up her mind if I do wind up waitlisted at this school...

[Riotbeard]

I have withdrawn my name from a couple programs, but I am yet to decide between the last two. Last Year I was rejected/waitlisted and no funding came, and I will say that while it sucks waiting, you cannot expect people with choices to make rash decisions! The two programs I am considering have very diferent strengths, and one is not clearly better! The next five-seven years of my life will be defined by this, and it seems very possible that I will not make a decision for weeks (and having people increase your offer tells you about your position in the accepted pool in that program and how you will be treated in it!).

[jth]

Look. I'm writing this thread well after top PhD programs have notified. The one in which I am waitlisted for that I want notified their accepted applicants in late January, and gave the funding info within a week. (A fellow student of mine was lucky enough to be on the first list)

I could understand your hostility towards me if I posted this a month ago, but please... It's mid-March. The top programs have already had their prospectives weekend; and all their accepted apps have had weeks to mull over the finances. If you also noticed, I mentioned that the school that I am waitlisted for is a top-ten school. I'm not saying this to brag or sound arrogant, but rather for the simple fact that those accepted to Harvard and Yale have known for months, and quite frankly, they're probably not waiting on that response from the University of Puerto Rico. So, since Harvard and Yale both have offered great packages, and are stellar schools, make up your mind already!

As I said before, we all since being freshman have waited for, and anticipated going into a PhD program, and have likely looked over our top choice programs hundreds of times, nothing new is going to pop up that makes you change your mind, the funding offers in this economic climate are more-or-less set in stone, so... Just because some applicants are afraid to commit why should those waitlisted suffer?

Again.... let me clarify why, and to whom this thread was started. (I'm getting sick of having to re-say this)

#1: To those who are accepted to numerous schools, and already know where they want to go: NOTIFY THE SCHOOLS.

#2: To those who are accepted to numerous schools who might not realize that there are waitlistees waiting: PLEASE NOTIFY THE SCHOOLS.

#3: To those who are seriously confused, and weighing out options between a few: NOTIFY THOSE THAT YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT. And good luck in figuring out which is best. But please try to answer reasonably soon.

Papercuts: When I was referring to those who are being predatory and juvenile, as is clear in the post, it was directed to those who know where want to go, and are deliberately waiting to see if they can bleed the school for more money as a tactic not those who actually need it.

And no... I have notified those programs that I have been accepted to that I know for sure I do not want, and did it even before I was waitlisted. As of now I am waitlisted at this one top-ten PhD program, and am waitlisted at a 10-15 program. I have outstanding offers from fully-funded MA programs, but they either accept or deny and do not utilize a waitlist of any kind, so the reason that I am sitting on them is because it does not matter to any other applicants.

Really? Exactly what good would it do you Septimius if you found out tomorrow rather than on April 16th that you were in? I have no intention of replying until the last possible minute and I don't feel even remotely bad about it. I feel completely differently about getting a PhD now that I have been accepted than I did when I was applying, and I will be absolutely certain before I accept any offers that have been made that this is in fact the direction I want my life to go. Take a deep breath, think about something else for a few weeks, and for god's sake, quit using all caps to emphasize your point.

Edited March 25, 2010 by jth

[eurocentric]

Really? Exactly what good would it do you Septimius if you found out tomorrow rather than on April 16th that you were in? I have no intention of replying until the last possible minute and I don't feel even remotely bad about it. I feel completely differently about getting a PhD now that I have been accepted than I did when I was applying, and I will be absolutely certain before I accept any offers that have been made that this is in fact the direction I want my life to go. Take a deep breath, think about something else for a few weeks, and for god's sake, quit using all caps to emphasize your point.

Yikes JTH, just because you were outright accepted at some PhD programs gives you no right to kick dirt in the face of someone who is waitlisted, it comes off as quite elitist.

First, if you actually read the post that you quoted you would have realized that Septimius used the caps to clarify "why" and "to whom" he was posting, as this was a point of contention in the earlier posts in this thread.

Second, while you have every right to wait until April 15 to notify it is extremely self-centered to do so just for the sake of doing so. I notified all programs right away that I had no intention of accepting, and wavered on Brown and Chicago but once I was sure of Chicago I notified both the very next day.

I was raised to have respect and courtesy for others, and I think that if you know, you should notify. Not to be cheesy here or anything, but there is a thing called karma, and the golden rule.

No reason to join the forums here just to brag, attack and belittle...

Besides, I thought surfers were supposed to be laid back.

[TMP]

eurocentric, a-hem, you turned down Princeton?! With the stipend that people would kill for?

But then again, having grown up 20 minutes away from Princeton, I can understand why Chicago would a better place to live for 5+ years!

Congrats!

[LogicBomb]

eurocentric, a-hem, you turned down Princeton?! With the stipend that people would kill for?

But then again, having grown up 20 minutes away from Princeton, I can understand why Chicago would a better place to live for 5+ years!

Congrats!

I am in Canada, so I believe my experience is slightly altered. For my MA, I applied to two schools. Both sent acceptance three days after their respective application deadlines. Both promised financial offers. At the advice of my undergraduate adviser, I actively played the schools off of each other and was able to secure extra money from my top choice. I ended up winning a SSHRC.

I applied to one PHD program - and this will sound arrogant but - I had reason to believe I would be accepted to any school in Canada. When they sent their offer, they were well aware of potential multiple offers. When I was "weighing my options" I ran into my potential supervisor at a conference and she explained how the department had accepted something like five students out of dozens of applicants. I felt a bit greedy so I accepted.

Moral: If you think you can get more money, hold out. It works.