How much might my very poor undergrad gpa hold back my much better Masters gpa/GRE score in applying for Doctorals?

[Throughnight]

How are you friends?! I am sure you all receive questions like this often and so I had searched the forum quite a bit for past threads but nothing beats going ahead and asking personally right?

I am currently 28 years old and will be graduating from Rutgers University with my M.Ed in Counseling Psychology this summer. I am planning to submit applications for Fall 2020 Ph.D programs in clinical psychology by the end of the year and I feel good about that decision, however I do have the specter of my undergraduate days looming over my head. I was admittedly a severely unmotivated and under achieving man during my undergraduate years and even more so admittedly had to go through an extended maturation process during my early 20s in order to become much more disciplined and responsible as a human being. As such my undergraduate gpa was flat out very poor period. I had 2.12 cum and a 3.1 major gpa. After graduating I took over 4 years of work and slow growth as an individual to return to Rutgers for my Masters to prove to myself and on paper that I am now more academically capable and resolved than 18-22 year old me was and have been by the grace of God doing well. With my current last semester to go I currently have 3.9 cum gpa and a GRE score of 164 Verbal/159 Quant/4.5 Writing. The chair of my masters program has told me that these scores will give me shot for acceptance into Doctoral programs somewhere if coupled with a well written personal statement and references, but I can't escape the feeling that I will almost certainly have the worst cum undergrad gpa of all applicants at every school I apply to and that is somewhat troubling to say the least lol. Based in your experiences, do you think this can pose as a legitimate issue moving forwards.

I sincerely appreciate any responses, recommendations and input from you all. This is my first post here on this forum and I am happy to be here!

Edited February 20, 2019 by Throughnight

[huskypsych]

What sort of doctoral program are you looking into? I didn't see you mention research/publications at all, which for a PhD program is always going to be the first priority. For PsyDs, I am not familiar with the process at all, but I would assume that the advice you got from your chair is accurate. 

[PsyDuck90]

While some faculty may look at the low undergrad GPA as a negative, most probably won't care as you have a high masters GPA (indicating you can do graduate level work) and a high GRE. You are definitely not the 1st person to bomb undergrad and then get it together later in life, and you won't be the last. 

[Throughnight]

22 minutes ago, buckeyepsych said:

What sort of doctoral program are you looking into? I didn't see you mention research/publications at all, which for a PhD program is always going to be the first priority. For PsyDs, I am not familiar with the process at all, but I would assume that the advice you got from your chair is accurate. 

Thank you for your reply! I am believe that I am interested in applying to Ph.D programs with a clinical or abnormal psychology concentration though I have not been able to delve deep enough into making an initial list of potential schools yet (I really should soon though). I would love to have a line of scholarship & work with others who are recovering/living with past traumas, PTSD, depressions or other severe disturbances effecting their lives. I do not have any research experience and that has currently been one of the major things I have been hunting for as of late with contacting professors and whoever else. I am endeavoring to at the least gain acceptance to some research lab by the summer of this year, but I have no guarantees at the moment. I have past work experience in both the short term in patient acute psychiatric unit as well as the in patient detox unit at Princeton Hospital and time working as a behavioral tech with young men diagnosed with Autism, however you are definitely right and I am trying my best to gain any legit research experience that I can by this years end.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Throughnight

[dakotaS]

If you're a fit a POI is willing to overlook that poor undergraduate GPA. Especially with how much you've proved yourself since your undergraduate years. 

[Throughnight]

24 minutes ago, PsyDGrad90 said:

While some faculty may look at the low undergrad GPA as a negative, most probably won't care as you have a high masters GPA (indicating you can do graduate level work) and a high GRE. You are definitely not the 1st person to bomb undergrad and then get it together later in life, and you won't be the last. 

Thank you for your response, I really appreciate it! I sometimes feel self conscious to say something like I bombed undergrad and then got it together later in life (although it may be a spot on statement), because it can come off as cliche and as if I am simply dismissing my past poor results like they never happened. I had many other personal issues going on at that time (but after all who doesnt) and I think I might be looking towards attempting to gain that Ph.D acceptance as a way to validate that I did truly mature beyond the way I used to be. That probably is not the best way of looking at it though lol but at the same time I also know that this field is definitely where I want to be and what I want to do, so that is the positive thing moving me forwards and not leaving me stuck looking backwards. 

[PsyDuck90]

Research experience and products (posters/pubs) will mean more than your undergrad GPA. If you don't have any as of yet, it may be better for you to spend extra time getting research experience and applying in 2021, as i don't know how much you'll be able to accomplish in the time before 2020 apps are due. 

[gillis_55]

Congratulations on graduating from your MEd this summer - it sounds like you've worked incredibly hard and grown a lot as a person over the last few years!

Can I ask why you're pursuing a PhD in clinical psych specifically? It's a very research intensive degree that takes 6-8 years to complete, and they are specifically seeking out applicants who will be productive scientists and researchers (not clinicians). Are you interested in working with clients or obtaining a researcher/faculty position?

If you're most interested in working with clients, you may be able to register as a psychotherapist with your current degree (depends on your region - ask your director). If that's not an option, you could pursue a PsyD (4 years) or an MSW with a clinical emphasis (2 years), both of which are less competitive and put more emphasis on applied clinical experience (which it sounds like you have). 

If you want a research job, then yes a PhD in clinical psych may be the route to pursue. However, clinical psych PhD apps are one of the most competitive graduate areas - in the US, we're talking acceptance rates of 1-5%, with 400-800 applications for 4-6 spots. It's easier to get into ivy league medical schools than some clinical programs. If you follow the threads for 2019, there are people who applied 3-4 years in a row before getting in. Research experience is one of the most important aspects of your application for clinical psych PhDs - having multiple months/years in different labs, conference posters at national and international conferences, publications... That's going to be very difficult to attain by the time you submit your applications in December 2019. That being said, I'm not telling you not to do it - just make sure you apply to safety programs as well. This can include the PsyD or MSW options I mentioned above, or PhDs in counselling psych or social work - both options would allow you to work with a research the populations you're interested in (trauma/PTSD/depression), with social work including more of an emphasis on the role of structural/societal influences and social justice. If you're interested in research only, you could also consider a PhD in experimental psych (e.g., health psych) as those are easier to get into as well. 

You may read this message and do your research and still decide that clinical psych is the best path for you - if so, go for it! Just prepare yourself for potentially applying several times and working very hard on building your research cred. It is absolutely possible for you to succeed in this path, I just wanted to lay out some other options in case your heart isn't set on a clinical PhD. I went through all of these options carefully myself (after speaking with other professionals in the field), before deciding on the clinical psych degree.