Bad relationship with advisor

[LoveCoffee]

How do you handle having an advisor who is not a researcher in your area and constantly ignores you, avoids meeting with you, mostly doesn't give you feedback or, if sometimes, their advice is completely conceptually wrong? What if such an advisor then blames you for everything and never admits to being wrong? 

Is it wrong of a PhD student to need/ask for feedback?

[PsyDuck90]

Yeah....that just sounds like a really bad advisor. Why were you paired with someone who is not within your area of interest? If there is a better research fit, that may be a good out as it isn't based on characteristics of the advisor if you don't want to cause any drama. 

[Anxiously Hopeful]

It is definitely the responsibility of the advisor to give his suggestions or feedback on the work his graduate student is doing. According to me, it is not going to be good for you to stay in this situation and it is better that you opt for a second advisor who is of your area since it is pretty common for Ph.D. students to have two advisors. At least this way you can ensure progress in your graduate studies.  

[LoveCoffee]

S/he wouldn't let me work with anybody else, and no one at the department would ever stand up to her/him.

[rheya19]

7 hours ago, LoveCoffee said:

S/he wouldn't let me work with anybody else, and no one at the department would ever stand up to her/him.

First I would research your school's policies on bringing on a second advisor to your dissertation and make sure you're very clear on what the procedure is for doing so.  There has to be some policy on the books somewhere.

If there is someone in the department that you trust (like a professor or advanced graduate student), talk to them privately and see what they think, if they have any suggestions for getting the help you need. 

Then set up an appointment to talk to your department chair or department's director of graduate studies and politely suggest that your current advisor is very busy and you need a little bit more help, and wouldn't it be moist convenient for everyone to bring on a second advisor. Use what you've learned about the school's policy to show (again, politely) that your suggestion is totally ok and easy to do.

If no one will help you, then you might need to go over the department's head--to the graduate school admissions or graduate union if you have one, and find out what your next options are. When you signed that contract as a graduate student, your school had to grant that it would provide you with any reasonable resource you need to complete your program, and that includes first and foremost an advisor who advises you. In the mess that is departmental politics, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that they are obligated to help you in addition to you being obligated to them, but that's what the contract is for. 

Good luck!

[LoveCoffee]

Thank you, yes I have tried it - I was super polite, and also used the 'if you are busy, I understand' method. Unfortunately, what happened was, I got called to their office and yelled at for wanting to bring someone else in. 

The most ironic thing is, I practically never get feedback on what I do, the only pieces of advice I got were completely conceptually wrong. When I tried to express my doubts about them, I just got shut down, yet, eventually when the data didn't work out, I was attacked and blamed for everything. 

[Hope.for.the.best]

On 2/23/2019 at 11:14 AM, LoveCoffee said:

How do you handle having an advisor who is not a researcher in your area and constantly ignores you, avoids meeting with you, mostly doesn't give you feedback or, if sometimes, their advice is completely conceptually wrong? What if such an advisor then blames you for everything and never admits to being wrong? 

Is it wrong of a PhD student to need/ask for feedback?

I am sorry to hear what you are going through. I had a similar experience back in my PhD and I can totally relate. You can figure out from my previous posts.

How far along you are in your PhD? If you have started not long ago (less than a year), then I would suggest that you press hard to switch advisors. Since your advisors show no willingness to improve (especially the yelling part), your next step would be bringing that up to the school, as others have pointed out. I know it is not good to burn a bridge, but in situation like this, it may he unavoidable. It is very problematic to have someone who do not know your research area to advise you, not to mention that they ignore you and blame you when things are not working. It is totally right for PhD students to ask for feedback. In fact, advisors are supposed to provide feedback and assistance to students so they can move along in their projects. Ideally, advisors meet with their students regularly to keep track on progress. If things are not working, they should work with students to troubleshoot and figure out the way to proceed. 

Even if you are close to submitting your dissertation, you should still approach the school, as your advisors are getting into the way of your completion. Speaking from my experience, I would not be surprised that they will try not to let you defend or confer, so it is important for the school to know what's going on so they can step in if necessary.

[MarineBluePsy]

On 2/22/2019 at 7:14 PM, LoveCoffee said:

How do you handle having an advisor who is not a researcher in your area and constantly ignores you, avoids meeting with you, mostly doesn't give you feedback or, if sometimes, their advice is completely conceptually wrong? What if such an advisor then blames you for everything and never admits to being wrong? 

Is it wrong of a PhD student to need/ask for feedback?

No it is not wrong for you to need or ask for feedback and I'm sorry you're in this situation.  I am experiencing this with my advisor so I get how much it sucks.  Like you I tried the polite approach, tried getting help from other faculty in the department and no one wanted to get involved, and the university rep for grad students to go to with issues is overwhelmed and doesn't handle this type of issue.  Quitting my program was not an option, but I also can't get through the program without adequate support so out of desperation I tried another tactic.  I met with the Chair and Vice Chair, re-stated my issues, and informed them I would not be communicating with my advisor without a mediator.  They of course didn't take me seriously and told me to meet with my advisor and work things out.  I stuck to my guns and ignored all communication from my advisor, refused to show up to lab meetings, and didn't set foot in my office for over a month.  I still handled all of my responsibilities, but did so remotely.  Well my advisor became extremely frustrated and suddenly the department was willing to have someone mediate our meetings.  So my frustration and needs weren't a priority, gee thanks.  Our mediated meeting was tense, but resulted in my being granted a co-advisor.  Since then I've been advancing appropriately through the program and things are going very well with the co-advisor.  Things are still tense with my primary advisor and I'll have some rocky waters to navigate when its time for dissertation, but I don't regret advocating for my needs.  Just to be clear, I'm not saying you should do what I did because it may not be the right move for you.  I realize I am very lucky things worked out ok for me and could have easily gone differently.

[LoveCoffee]

I spoke with a representative at my school who handles student matters and she gave me a few options. I have the right to change my advisor, I can speak to the chair, the dean, and I can file a formal grievance at the university. The issue is those mechanisms, although in place, don't translate onto the reality - reality which is filled with politics, ego, and professors who will go out of their way to protect their reputation.. I'm afraid if I take this out in the open, I will only shoot myself in the foot, because my advisor is very influential and respected. The representative also told me that there are different dynamics among advisors and students and sometimes there may be a lack of personality fit which causes lack of meetings and responses (I also said that the advisor doesn't have the knowledge in my area of research, which was clearly shown as they were wrong on most things). The fact that I still went with what the advisor told me, was still my decision so it is only on me. With regards to yelling at me, I should simply tell the advisor not to do it.. The thing is, if I am dealing with someone so proud and with such a personality, then calling them out (even if I'm right), would only make things worse..

At this point, I'm not even sure how this relationship should look like and what I have the right to expect. To me, it seems like being a PhD advisor is the easiest job in the world, because no matter what you do, what you say, or how you say it, it is still the student's fault, and there is really no accountability to them (and even though it is their 'service', the advisor does get paid for students being registered for credits with them). 

Right now, I'm just trying to suffer through it. 

[MarineBluePsy]

You're right, those options don't translate into reality which is precisely what I ran into when I tried to use all of the established channels for help.  I imagine this challenge exists at most Universities and the problem is how we're classified and the fact that academic settings don't completely function the way private businesses do (with an HR department, etc).  While it is ultimately your choice how you proceed, regardless you need to consider your own wellbeing.  Your situation is creating a tremendous amount of stress so increasing your self care (sleeping, exercising, doing things you enjoy, perhaps talking to a therapist, etc) could help with that.

Does your University have any mentorship workshops where mentees can learn helpful tips on navigating the mentorship relationship, what a good one should look like, and how to survive when your mentorship relationship sucks?  Conferences in your field may offer these types of workshops as well.  I know attending something like this won't make your mentor function like an actual mentor, but there may be suggestions that help you moving forward.