Pivoting from Philosophy of Religion MA into general Philosophy PhD?

[jmarvin_]

I'm currently starting my second year as a Philosophy of Religion MA student at Chicago, with the relatively idiosyncratic area of research centered on interfaces between mathematics/logic, mystical language, and continental philosophy.  I think that this department is the best possible fit for the eclectic interests I'm most passionate about—which is why I came here for the MA in the first place—and I'm somewhat confident I can continue on to the PhD here.  I am, however, very much concerned that things may not fall my way, and have been considering alternative programs to apply to.

My work is at this point too directly philosophical in approach (and too concerned with mathematics!) for religious studies and theology departments to be a clean fit.  I think I would still feel quite edified and able to pursue my passions moving into a philosophy program, whether by concentrating in philosophy of religion, joining a continental department, or just straight up doing philosophy of math/logic.

The trouble is, I have heard (including on this board) that philosophy departments don't take kindly to people coming from my background.  I did half an undergraduate degree in hard science before deciding I wanted to pursue humanities and ended up with a theology degree after taking things up and down the philosophy, theology, and English departments, including four PhD courses I talked my way into; now I am on my way to finishing an MA in Phil. of Religion as mentioned.  Is it reasonable to apply to philosophy departments as alternative options in case I can't stay on track here, or do I have a slim chance of getting into any?

GRE scores are 170v168Q, so there should be no barrier there, and GPA is good to great on all fronts.  My passions are diverse enough that I could modify my statement of intent to fit more straightforward research avenues that align with faculty of interest.  Am I still going to be screwed by my background outside of pure philosophy?

Edited September 25, 2019 by jmarvin_

[hector549]

2 hours ago, jmarvin_ said:

I'm currently starting my second year as a Philosophy of Religion MA student at Chicago, with the relatively idiosyncratic area of research centered on interfaces between mathematics/logic, mystical language, and continental philosophy.  I think that this department is the best possible fit for the eclectic interests I'm most passionate about—which is why I came here for the MA in the first place—and I'm somewhat confident I can continue on to the PhD here.  I am, however, very much concerned that things may not fall my way, and have been considering alternative programs to apply to.

My work is at this point too directly philosophical in approach (and too concerned with mathematics!) for religious studies and theology departments to be a clean fit.  I think I would still feel quite edified and able to pursue my passions moving into a philosophy program, whether by concentrating in philosophy of religion, joining a continental department, or just straight up doing philosophy of math/logic.

The trouble is, I have heard (including on this board) that philosophy departments don't take kindly to people coming from my background.  I did half an undergraduate degree in hard science before deciding I wanted to pursue humanities and ended up with a theology degree after taking things up and down the philosophy, theology, and English departments, including four PhD courses I talked my way into; now I am on my way to finishing an MA in Phil. of Religion as mentioned.  Is it reasonable to apply to philosophy departments as alternative options in case I can't stay on track here, or do I have a slim chance of getting into any?

GRE scores are 170v168Q, so there should be no barrier there, and GPA is good to great on all fronts.  My passions are diverse enough that I could modify my statement of intent to fit more straightforward research avenues that align with faculty of interest.  Am I still going to be screwed by my background outside of pure philosophy?

I've heard of people making the jump to philosophy with a religion MA. It can be done. That being said: have you taken a reasonable number of philosophy courses? Philosophy-adjacent courses like theology or English aren't necessarily going to mean much to philosophers. Admissions committees are going to want to see some exposure to higher-level courses in philosophy in some breadth, particularly if you're aiming for PhD programs rather than an MA. Relatedly, can you get letters from philosophers? You'll want to do so in order to be most competitive (again, MA programs are a bit more flexible in this regard, in my experience, though you'll still want to get as many letters from philosophers as you can).

The danger that you'll also need to be wary of in your situation is that you don't want to come across as having interests that are all over the place or too idiosyncratic, so you'll want to take care when producing a WS and crafting a SOP that you're making a case for why you're a good fit for the departments to which you're applying. You'll also want to explain succinctly in your SOP how your interests have moved you towards academic philosophy, and in a way that is organic and makes sense.

Also consider a mix of MA's and PhD programs. A good, funded MA can help you make the jump a bit more easily into academic philosophy if you have a non-standard background.

Edited September 25, 2019 by hector549

[maxhgns]

I think the pivot is harder from a straight religion/theology program, especially without substantial coursework in philosophy. From what you describe, it doesn't seem to me like it should be too hard for you to apply to philosophy PhDs, provided you present a clear rationale for your areas of interest in your letter of interest, as well as for your choice of department. And, of course, provided you have a writing sample that's clearly philosophical, and which has a clear focus (i.e. it doesn't look like a mish-mash of stuff from across philosophy and religious studies). 

I don't see any harm in applying to carefully-selected philosophy PhD programs. It's worth noting, however, that the job market in logic and philosophy of mathematics is rough--quasi-nonexistent, really. The market for contemporary continental is a little better, but not much. And I don't see much reason to expect either one to pick up six to ten years from now. Your philosophy of religion background might prove an asset, however--there are lots of religious institutions in the US, and they're always looking for someone with that kind of background to teach... well, something. Not usually logic, phil. math, phil. of religion, or contemporary continental, but something. And that applicant pool is much smaller than usual.

[SmugSnugInARug]

Schools like Villanova, Boston College and Fordham would certainly be welcoming to this kind of background. Most of the Catholic Continental schools usually have space for students with your background and professors who would definitely be interested in math + religion (especially if your okay with it being stuff in the history of mathematics).

Edited September 26, 2019 by SmugSnugInARug

[maxhgns]

20 hours ago, SmugSnugInARug said:

Schools like Villanova, Boston College and Fordham would certainly be welcoming to this kind of background. 

Unless you're black, in which case one of these schools (hint: the name contains two letters it doesn't share with either of the other two) is a bad idea for a PhD. Your welcome will not be very welcoming, once the PR efforts slow down.

Edited September 27, 2019 by maxhgns

[maxhgns]

Oops, I wasn't being careful enough: each one contains at least two letters it doesn't share with the others. So: Villanova's the bad one. I don't know about the other two, beyond the fact that Fordham doesn't fully fund its students (a clear strike against it).

[Theodore8]

My MA was in theology and I was admitted to a philosophy PhD program, although my undergrad was in philosophy, so I at least had that. It’s difficult but doable. I chose to use a writing sample that was not related to religion in any way in order to demonstrate my interest in philosophy proper as well as to show I had a firm handle on philosophy. I also chose not to advertise the fact that my MA was in theology. Of course my CV listed my MA in theology, but I never mentioned theology in my SoP; I just referred to my graduate work or my MA. And of course I was strategic about what programs I applied to. I’d recommend Notre Dame, Georgetown, Fordham, Baylor, Notre Dame, Boston College, Saint Louis University, and Villanova as programs friendly to philosophy of religions, but others are as well. I have friends doing philosophy of religion at places like UT-Austin and USC, but they did MAs in philosophy, so that makes a difference. 

Hopefully this helps. My bottom line advice is to be strategic about your application and where you apply, but also don’t limit yourself. You never know what might happen.

[UndergradDad]

maxhgns, you stated that "Fordham doesn't fully fund its students". Can you elaborate on how you came up with that? Are you referring to their Phd program? If so, they fund at around a 22 or 23k stipend according to the phdstipends site. While not a huge stipend for NYC, it's in keeping with the cost of living ratio for stipends for most programs in big cities, other than the usual larger Ivy league stipends.

Can you clarify what you meant?

 

[maxhgns]

18 hours ago, UndergradDad said:

maxhgns, you stated that "Fordham doesn't fully fund its students". Can you elaborate on how you came up with that? Are you referring to their Phd program? If so, they fund at around a 22 or 23k stipend according to the phdstipends site. While not a huge stipend for NYC, it's in keeping with the cost of living ratio for stipends for most programs in big cities, other than the usual larger Ivy league stipends.

Can you clarify what you meant?

 

It was simply based on students I've known from there who have not had full funding--they've had tuition waivers but no stipend, stipends but non-full tuition waivers, etc. Things may have changed in recent years, or they may still be admitting more students than they fund. I don't know. It's just something to be cautious about.