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Should I study French or German?


pax et caritas

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I haven't decided where I'm attending in the fall, but I'm already trying to figure out how which modern language I'd like to study (I'll be in either an MDiv or MTS program, which are 3 and 2 years long respectively).

What do y'all think: should I continue to solidify my German (currently intermediate for reading, writing, speaking—I have a minor in German), or should I branch out and study French? My main goal is to make myself a more desirable PhD applicant in either some religious studies field or political theory after my MDiv/MTS. I'm wondering if German would be my best choice with this goal in mind; it might be better to speak German closer to an academic level than to speak both French and German at an intermediate level. I might be wrong, though.

Outside of that goal, I'm leaning toward French. I've grown to appreciate its beauty (insofar as someone can appreciate it from the outside) over the past few years, and I like the idea of having an additional language to use if I travel or study abroad. Plus, it might be the case that having basic proficiency in French and German makes me a stronger candidate after all. Or maybe the criteria by which I'm deciding this is off. Open to y'all's thoughts!

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3 hours ago, pax et caritas said:

I haven't decided where I'm attending in the fall, but I'm already trying to figure out how which modern language I'd like to study (I'll be in either an MDiv or MTS program, which are 3 and 2 years long respectively).

What do y'all think: should I continue to solidify my German (currently intermediate for reading, writing, speaking—I have a minor in German), or should I branch out and study French? My main goal is to make myself a more desirable PhD applicant in either some religious studies field or political theory after my MDiv/MTS. I'm wondering if German would be my best choice with this goal in mind; it might be better to speak German closer to an academic level than to speak both French and German at an intermediate level. I might be wrong, though.

Outside of that goal, I'm leaning toward French. I've grown to appreciate its beauty (insofar as someone can appreciate it from the outside) over the past few years, and I like the idea of having an additional language to use if I travel or study abroad. Plus, it might be the case that having basic proficiency in French and German makes me a stronger candidate after all. Or maybe the criteria by which I'm deciding this is off. Open to y'all's thoughts!

In almost all cases, assuming you're looking for a program here in the States - they (speaking to RS programs) aren't really going to care about German beyond reading level. By reading level, I mean your ability to understand the basics and being capable of translating a passage with use of a dictionary (usually permitted). I honestly don't think anyone is going to test oral skills to see if you can carry on a conversation in a technical manner. This might vary if you apply to political theory programs, I can't speak personally to that.

If you have solid command of a language, I think you can get reading level up to a safe enough level for a reading exam fairly easily. Mileage will vary, naturally but most of my classmates have done it too since our stipends and tuition don't cover language courses if they're not vital to our proposed area of study.

It'll depend on program but a lot of them prefer, some state it outright, an applicant to have one research language already done. So on that premise I'd advise to start in on French. If you're attending a MDiv program that has access to a PhD - HYCPD-etc., see about taking the reading exam, even if it's unofficial. At the very least it'll give you a gauge of your skills and if they're willing to make it official and put something on your transcript, that'll be a box you can already have checked off.

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18 hours ago, xypathos said:

In almost all cases, assuming you're looking for a program here in the States - they (speaking to RS programs) aren't really going to care about German beyond reading level. By reading level, I mean your ability to understand the basics and being capable of translating a passage with use of a dictionary (usually permitted). I honestly don't think anyone is going to test oral skills to see if you can carry on a conversation in a technical manner. This might vary if you apply to political theory programs, I can't speak personally to that.

If you have solid command of a language, I think you can get reading level up to a safe enough level for a reading exam fairly easily. Mileage will vary, naturally but most of my classmates have done it too since our stipends and tuition don't cover language courses if they're not vital to our proposed area of study.

It'll depend on program but a lot of them prefer, some state it outright, an applicant to have one research language already done. So on that premise I'd advise to start in on French. If you're attending a MDiv program that has access to a PhD - HYCPD-etc., see about taking the reading exam, even if it's unofficial. At the very least it'll give you a gauge of your skills and if they're willing to make it official and put something on your transcript, that'll be a box you can already have checked off.

All of this is quite helpful, thank you. I'm really leaning toward French now (which is what I was hoping for, haha). 

What exactly do you mean by 'a lot of them prefer ... an applicant to have one research language already done'? 

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1 hour ago, pax et caritas said:

All of this is quite helpful, thank you. I'm really leaning toward French now (which is what I was hoping for, haha). 

What exactly do you mean by 'a lot of them prefer ... an applicant to have one research language already done'? 

Simply that you can pass a reading proficiency exam in German or French before you enter the program. "Research language" sounds daunting and I guess it is to a degree, but it's just a test of your basic ability to read and translate a text of approx. 500 words.

Often, as in my case, as part of orientation they had reading exams you had to take. In the case of my school everyone took one in French or German (some got to choose Spanish). Even if you failed they gave you some length of time to study and retake the exam - usually a year.

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3 minutes ago, xypathos said:

Simply that you can pass a reading proficiency exam in German or French before you enter the program. "Research language" sounds daunting and I guess it is to a degree, but it's just a test of your basic ability to read and translate a text of approx. 500 words.

Often, as in my case, as part of orientation they had reading exams you had to take. In the case of my school everyone took one in French or German (some got to choose Spanish). Even if you failed they gave you some length of time to study and retake the exam - usually a year.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification! Do you have any sense of whether German or French would be more useful as a researcher who's interested in the intersection of politics and theology?

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2 hours ago, pax et caritas said:

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification! Do you have any sense of whether German or French would be more useful as a researcher who's interested in the intersection of politics and theology?

Not really. If you're borrowing or dependent on a political theory/theorist(s) that you can say is German or French, you should start there. Ultimately, you'll need familiarity with both. Depending on timeframe (Middles Ages, for example), an advisor would likely tack on Latin - maybe.

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24 minutes ago, xypathos said:

Not really. If you're borrowing or dependent on a political theory/theorist(s) that you can say is German or French, you should start there. Ultimately, you'll need familiarity with both. Depending on timeframe (Middles Ages, for example), an advisor would likely tack on Latin - maybe.

Gotcha. Thanks very much.

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3 hours ago, pax et caritas said:

Is this in response to the original question or to my recent one about research in the intersection of politics and theology?

My view is that your decision-making at this point should revolve around one thing: getting into a PhD program. 

You already have German on your CV. Add French. It's always good to have multiple languages on your CV and French & German are often necessary for the modern scholarly language requirement.

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23 minutes ago, Averroes MD said:

My view is that your decision-making at this point should revolve around one thing: getting into a PhD program. 

You already have German on your CV. Add French. It's always good to have multiple languages on your CV and French & German are often necessary for the modern scholarly language requirement.

Gotcha, that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification. Increasingly excited that I've got good reasons to study French now.

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100% French. You have enough German to impress already. There's plenty of political/poststructural-adjacent stuff that you need french for. If you can already handle some small chunks of Marx and Schmitt in German, you're well ahead of the curve.

 

You pretty much need both German and French to do work in political theology these days. Latin/Greek/Italian all help too. Spanish can be important for liberation theologies. Get some breadth, you'll be doing a lot more things in much smaller chunks. If you commit to going beyond a German minor's worth of learning with German- you better be planning to get published doing some translation heavy lifting. Otherwise, you're wasting your time/energy.

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38 minutes ago, thiscalltoarms said:

100% French. You have enough German to impress already. There's plenty of political/poststructural-adjacent stuff that you need french for. If you can already handle some small chunks of Marx and Schmitt in German, you're well ahead of the curve.

 

You pretty much need both German and French to do work in political theology these days. Latin/Greek/Italian all help too. Spanish can be important for liberation theologies. Get some breadth, you'll be doing a lot more things in much smaller chunks. If you commit to going beyond a German minor's worth of learning with German- you better be planning to get published doing some translation heavy lifting. Otherwise, you're wasting your time/energy.

That all makes sense. I don't know why I thought there'd be a broad expectation of fluency in political theory/religious studies PhD programs. I'm settled on French now so as to have more breadth, as you've described. Thank you for your advice!

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