Is Going to Harvard a Stupid Idea?

[11Q13]

Here's the situation, I got into Harvard Divinity School MTS program with a 50% scholarship, I got into Vanderbilt Divinity School MTS with a 70% scholarship

My background:

I have about 40k in debt right now from undergrad

I work in the Middle East doing social justice and interreligious dialog work, I make virtually no money

I want to teach at a Christian university after getting a PhD...or if I become disenchanted with academia, I'd probably come back here to the Middle East to work with some kind of NGO again.

Correct me if I'm wrong about any of these

I want to go to Harvard more because:

I'll be in the Jewish studies concentration under Jon Levenson, a guy I'd really like to work with, wheras I don't really know anyone from Vandy

It's pluralistic environment is more conducive to the line of work I may go into if I don't go on to a PhD

It's Harvard, and if I decide not to do a PhD in Biblical Studies, the name alone will open doors for me elsewhere

Boston seems like a nicer place to live than Nashville

I could constantly brag about going to Harvard

I'd rather go to Vanderbilt because:

It seems like the program is specifically geared toward getting you into a PhD which, right now anyway, is my goal

It would be far cheaper, like $20,000 debt for the degree versus like $60,000

I could get a condo for the price of a room in Boston

It's Christian only (pretty much) environment is more conducive to edifying my personal faith

Here is another variable, this new Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program thing. My debt will be canceled after 10 years of being a professor (even adjunct), or working with an NGO.

http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/PSLF_QAs_final_02%2012%2010.pdf

Am I missing something or is this, combined with income based repayment, an easy out, and essentially make the amount of loans I take out completely inconsequential?

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

[sacklunch]

How are you getting the 60k vs 20k number? As far as living, I had a similar decision over BC and Vandy, and preferred Boston over Nashville (which I think is fairly obvious). Realistically I think they both would set you up for a doctoral program at a lot of great schools. Obviously outside of academia, Harvard is going to be "cooler." Have you talked to any of the HDS students in that program?

[11Q13]

How are you getting the 60k vs 20k number? As far as living, I had a similar decision over BC and Vandy, and preferred Boston over Nashville (which I think is fairly obvious). Realistically I think they both would set you up for a doctoral program at a lot of great schools. Obviously outside of academia, Harvard is going to be "cooler." Have you talked to any of the HDS students in that program?

I did the math, while 70% to Vanderbilt and 50% to Harvard are pretty much the same dollar figure, Vanderbilt offered more work-study money, the tuition is 5,000 less, and its about 5,000 less to live in Nashville...it works out to Vanderbilt costing 22260 in loans for the degree, and Harvard costing 50,946 in loans for the degree. So more than double for Harvard, but again, will it matter with the public service loan forgiveness thing...

I've only really talked to the student representatives at Harvard who seem to pretty much stick to the script, believe me, I've tried to get them to be candid. I have sent a couple messages to posters here but that's it.

[Postbib Yeshuist]

I've only really talked to the student representatives at Harvard who seem to pretty much stick to the script, believe me, I've tried to get them to be candid.

I have heard this before and the explanation (by those who were at HDS and left for elsewhere) was that there is a definite "in" group and that if you don't have the credentials (i.e. family ties), you will never get much from them. This is obviously a perception, but even among the profs at my school there has been a pretty steady response that "you may find Harvard to be a stifling place," since I tend to be one to push theological boundaries. Of course, I've never attended HDS (have no intention to ever apply, either), so this is purely hearsay from those who won't sit in the HDS fan section for one reason or another. Hopefully someone else will weigh in.

PS It's also worth pointing out that there is a slowly building push back against the Ivies. What that will become in the long run, I don't know, but there appears to be a steadily growing movement to seek those who have not been "molded" by Harvard, Yale, etc.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Postbib Yeshuist

[peppermint.beatnik]

I want to go to Harvard more because:

I'll be in the Jewish studies concentration under Jon Levenson, a guy I'd really like to work with, wheras I don't really know anyone from Vandy

I think this is a good reason to go to Harvard, but I think you have to decide if it's compelling enough to turn down all the great things Vandy has to offer.

Plus, it appears it will cost you substantially less, and you mentioned you have undergrad debt.

I wouldn't count on loan forgiveness if you decide to pursue Harvard.

Edited April 17, 2010 by peppermint.beatnik

[NervousNellie]

In your shoes I would go to Vanderbilt. It's Vanderbilt, not a no-name. I think it is foolish to take on so much debt when you already have a great deal.

[11Q13]

In your shoes I would go to Vanderbilt. It's Vanderbilt, not a no-name. I think it is foolish to take on so much debt when you already have a great deal.

What about the Public Service Loan Forgiveness...?

[NervousNellie]

What about the Public Service Loan Forgiveness...?

I can only speak from my own experience. I am going to school now in a "second career," though, so I do have some experience on which to draw. Ten years is a long time to live with a loan. A lot can happen in that time, no matter your other plans. Emergency medical situations arise and aren't covered fully by insurance. Housing situations get more or less complex. Family situations change. Babies are born. Job situations change. Parents and spouses die. (God-forbid the worst of all these situations). I remember once when I was taking out a loan, I told the intelligent banker that I planned to repay it in two years with tax refund money I had every reason to expect. He told me, "That's fine, and I hope you do, but you should know that most people take out loans with certain plans, and I very rarely see them work out as people expect." He was right. I couldn't repay the loan as I expected because an emergency arose in the second year when I planned to have it all paid off. It ended up taking the full five years to pay off the loan, even though it was small to begin with.

In your shoes I wouldn't want to hear what I am saying, just as I didn't want to hear the banker tell me that in reality, most people don't pay off their loans in the way they expect. But experience speaks volumes.

It's easy for me to say, but not easy to hear. Still, if I were you, I hope I would be able to step back and see all that Vanderbilt had to offer.

[LisaTO]

I dunno about in the States, but in Canada, the loan repayment rules change frequently. It seems risky to have your plans 10 years in the future dependent on a current rule.

[2bphd]

Is going to Harvard a Stupid Idea?

Daaaaaaah!!

of course it is.. and you dont need to go to Harvard to know that

[tem11]

What about the Public Service Loan Forgiveness...?

I agree with what others have said. There is no way of knowing if this program will be around in ten years time. When I entered undegrad, there were a lot of loan forgiveness programs at the state level so I took out more loans than I really needed. Due to budget cuts, now they're all gone. Definitely don't rely on the public service loan forgiveness program. If it's around when you're done, fantastic, but it's not a sure thing.

[11Q13]

Just to update everyone. I was offered some money from my family at the last minute specifically to go to Harvard which made the price basically equal, so that's where I'm going! I really wasn't expecting it since I paid/borrowed my own way through undergrad, so I guess I can't hold this against them anymore.

[4minutemile]

This is obviously a perception, but even among the profs at my school there has been a pretty steady response that "you may find Harvard to be a stifling place," since I tend to be one to push theological boundaries.

Stifling? Hmm...it may be more stifling for someone who does not push theological boundaries. But even that would be a major stretch.

PS It's also worth pointing out that there is a slowly building push back against the Ivies. What that will become in the long run, I don't know, but there appears to be a steadily growing movement to seek those who have not been "molded" by Harvard, Yale, etc.

Do you have any actual specifics on this movement?

Regardless - congratulations to the OP - I'm glad you could pull the resources together to attend your top choice!

[JonathanEdwards]

Just to update everyone. I was offered some money from my family at the last minute specifically to go to Harvard which made the price basically equal, so that's where I'm going! I really wasn't expecting it since I paid/borrowed my own way through undergrad, so I guess I can't hold this against them anymore.

Glad to hear it! I was advised many moons ago that the wisest course is to select a program based on who you want to study under, and I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me otherwise.

Of course, if the scholar you want to study under is an octogenarian in ill health, your mileage may vary...

[tenorcervantes]

Just to update everyone. I was offered some money from my family at the last minute specifically to go to Harvard which made the price basically equal, so that's where I'm going! I really wasn't expecting it since I paid/borrowed my own way through undergrad, so I guess I can't hold this against them anymore.

Congratulations on your decision! I will also see you at Harvard in the fall!