Realistically, where should I apply?

[psychguy2022]

I am a graduated BS in Psychology who is having trouble distinguishing what schools are actually attainable. I am planning to apply in the Fall of 2021 to clinical psychology PhD programs. I have asked the graduate students in my current lab this question, but this is such a nice way to get thoughts from other grad students who have successfully done the thing. 

About me: 

I attended a well-known R1 university in the midwest where I aided in research as an undergraduate RA for 3 years in 2 different labs (one running clinical trials in endocrinology, and later on I was in a developmental cognitive neuroscience lab - the latter sparked my interest in clinical psych). My senior year, I completed a project that allowed for me to travel to a large international conference for a poster presentation. I presented this again later in the year at our school's undergraduate forum and placed 3rd out of several hundred undergraduates. Separately, I received an award for this project. I now work as an RA at a fairly prestigious school in Chicago. I am currently listed as 5th author on a paper that is in submission, and I've already taken the lead on a small pilot project that I expect to turn into a poster at the very least, and with some work, a paper in which I could be first author. I have secured at least 2 very solid letters of recommendation and have a few people in mind for who could be a third. I have strong leadership roles from undergrad and a two others that I've recently taken up in my community.

Academically, I had a rough first 2 years of school. I came in thinking I knew what I wanted to do, and quickly realized I did not. While everyone around me seemed to love and fit perfectly into what they were studying, it became that much harder to focus on schoolwork and find my passion. I haven't yet decided how I will be framing this in my personal statement's but I am aware of the things to avoid (i.e., mental health difficulties and other clichés). Once I started studying psychology and joined the neuro lab I was in, things turned around completely. Though, as a result of the more-than-rocky start, my cumulative gpa is a 3.15, and major (psych) gpa is 3.66. In my last 60 credits (2 years) my overall gpa is a 3.76 and psych gpa in that same time frame is a 3.88.

My gpa is by far my biggest hinderance (at least in my eyes), and I don't yet have a GRE score but I am quite confident I can meet both math and verbal requirements for ~95% of schools. I am currently enrolled in a post-bacc certificate program at the school I work for in an attempt to show that I am continuing to educate myself and succeed academically. I've received an A in my first class and have 3 to go. 

 

What do you think? Is there more I could be doing? I know how competitive things can be. This is what I want to do and I know if I have to apply a few times, I will. I just don't have a firm grasp of what things might be like when I take a swing at some of the schools I really would like to do research at. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this, it's beyond appreciated!

[SendMeAnEmailPlz]

You're ticking all the boxes. Your junior and senior gpa will be very helpful. I would start thinking about the personal statement now and just brainstorm. You don't have have to sit and write sentences, but just make notes to yourself. What are you interested in? How are you going to frame it? How do your interests make sense in your path? If you want to work your early college gpa story into the statement, that's fine, but it's not necessary. Better for your letter writers to address your low gpa.

Apply widely. You're never going to know whether gre and gpa cutoffs are hard or soft and schools will rarely be explicit if they do. I interviewed at places that had supposed soft gpa cutoffs that I was below.

[psychguy2022]

16 hours ago, SendMeAnEmailPlz said:

You're ticking all the boxes. Your junior and senior gpa will be very helpful. I would start thinking about the personal statement now and just brainstorm. You don't have have to sit and write sentences, but just make notes to yourself. What are you interested in? How are you going to frame it? How do your interests make sense in your path? If you want to work your early college gpa story into the statement, that's fine, but it's not necessary. Better for your letter writers to address your low gpa.

Apply widely. You're never going to know whether gre and gpa cutoffs are hard or soft and schools will rarely be explicit if they do. I interviewed at places that had supposed soft gpa cutoffs that I was below.

Hey thank you for the reply! Firstly, I see that you're responding to a good number of people asking for help in the "what are my chances" sort of way. I know there are a ton of posts like this but it really does help us get an idea of where we should be focusing our time/energy, so thank you! 

Second, that's solid advice. I like the idea of having my letter writer's touch on the GPA as opposed to spending valuable space going over it in my statement. 

 

I think I'm still a bit fuzzy on how to know what school is definitely out of the question vs. a program that I have a decent shot at. I'll definitely be applying widely, no doubt, I suppose I just need to do some more research into what type of students have gotten in where. Thanks!

[PsyDuck90]

5 hours ago, psychguy2022 said:

 I think I'm still a bit fuzzy on how to know what school is definitely out of the question vs. a program that I have a decent shot at. I'll definitely be applying widely, no doubt, I suppose I just need to do some more research into what type of students have gotten in where. Thanks!

APA accredited programs usually report stats on their incoming classes in the "student admissions and outcomes data" page. You will see number of applicants, number of accepted offers, and the average GPA and GRE scores of the incoming class. In all honesty, research fit with the POI is really the biggest factor that will separate out which programs you have a better shot at. 

[psychguy2022]

1 hour ago, PsyDuck90 said:

APA accredited programs usually report stats on their incoming classes in the "student admissions and outcomes data" page. You will see number of applicants, number of accepted offers, and the average GPA and GRE scores of the incoming class. In all honesty, research fit with the POI is really the biggest factor that will separate out which programs you have a better shot at. 

Good call! I actually had a question about this if you have any insight. As noted, my last 60 credits have a much higher gpa than cumulative, as is the case for many people (at least on this site). When schools report averages, are they using everyone's cumulative score? Last 60 credits? 

I get confused because I hear stories of people getting in to great programs despite a weak start in school, yet programs almost always have average GPA's that are quite high. This makes me think they might just use the better one between the two - obviously I can't be sure of this. Do you have any thoughts?

[PsyDuck90]

20 minutes ago, psychguy2022 said:

Good call! I actually had a question about this if you have any insight. As noted, my last 60 credits have a much higher gpa than cumulative, as is the case for many people (at least on this site). When schools report averages, are they using everyone's cumulative score? Last 60 credits? 

I get confused because I hear stories of people getting in to great programs despite a weak start in school, yet programs almost always have average GPA's that are quite high. This makes me think they might just use the better one between the two - obviously I can't be sure of this. Do you have any thoughts?

I'm not sure, but I think it's the cumulative. Also, remember that it's an average, so one person with a perfect 4.0 can bring up the whole thing. 

[Psyche007]

Just a general question: why clinical psych and not another specialty like cognitive or developmental psych or even a neuroscience programme?

Do you have clinical experience?

While you look like a great candidate in general, I am not seeing a connection to clinical psych in the information you posted. That would be something you're expected to expand on in your application and certainly in interviews.

[psychguy2022]

16 minutes ago, Psyche007 said:

Just a general question: why clinical psych and not another specialty like cognitive or developmental psych or even a neuroscience programme?

Do you have clinical experience?

While you look like a great candidate in general, I am not seeing a connection to clinical psych in the information you posted. That would be something you're expected to expand on in your application and certainly in interviews.

Good question! And very fair - I didn't go into the "why" so much in my initial posting. 

 It was working in a cognitive neuroscience lab that I gained my initial interest in clinical. I was using machine learning to predict reading ability at the person level using fMRI data. I really liked the implications it held in aiding those with dyslexia or other types of reading deficits.

Upon graduating, I had the option to take a full-time position with my PI or look for another lab to try and join. I went with the latter and I can safely say it was the right call! Since starting at a clinical lab in January I've got about 40 hours of diagnostic interviewing under my belt. COVID delayed a lot of potential hours so that number would be closer to 100 otherwise. Our work is picking up again so as of now I'm averaging about 5 hours of clinical work a week. 

I find the heterogeneity of mental illness to be really interesting. It amazes me how there are so many possible ways someone might experience depression or any other given illness. The current work I'm doing in lab is focused on quantifying psychomotor agitation/retardation as it relates to depression. I find myself constantly inspired by the work itself, and the knowledge I'm gaining as a result. The idea of quantifying symptoms as opposed to assessing them via self-report or otherwise is really cool! So I've also gained further interest in physiological measures like EEG and MRI

I know "the heterogeneity of mental illness" is too broad of a pitch for graduate programs, I know I need to hone my research question specifically, but I have loved the clinical work and especially loved the research thus far. I think it's the right fit for me, I just have work on filling a gap in the field that isn't already filled. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts if you have any! 

[SocDevMum]

Something else to consider when looking at schools - are you looking to become a practicioner after it's all said and done? Or is your heart more into research? This sounds more like the research end, to me, which is why I ask. If you are set on becoming a practicioner, make sure you weed out programs that are research-focused, and instead look for those who have a scientist-practicioner model of grad school.  And vice versa if you really want to focus on things like quantifying symptoms and understanding the neuro end of mental illnesses.  The distinction of what you want to do with your degree will make your applications more attractive to the right schools. 

[Psyche007]

On 9/3/2020 at 10:34 AM, Randi S said:

Something else to consider when looking at schools - are you looking to become a practicioner after it's all said and done? Or is your heart more into research? This sounds more like the research end, to me, which is why I ask. If you are set on becoming a practicioner, make sure you weed out programs that are research-focused, and instead look for those who have a scientist-practicioner model of grad school.  And vice versa if you really want to focus on things like quantifying symptoms and understanding the neuro end of mental illnesses.  The distinction of what you want to do with your degree will make your applications more attractive to the right schools. 

This is valuable insight. Trainees are expected to participate in about 2 years worth of clinical practica, then internship, and finally post-doc in order to qualify for licensure.

Anyone who isn't interested in licensure and especially clinical practice might find their time better spent in a different programme.

[Psyche007]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:41 AM, psychguy2022 said:

Good question! And very fair - I didn't go into the "why" so much in my initial posting. 

 It was working in a cognitive neuroscience lab that I gained my initial interest in clinical. I was using machine learning to predict reading ability at the person level using fMRI data. I really liked the implications it held in aiding those with dyslexia or other types of reading deficits.

Upon graduating, I had the option to take a full-time position with my PI or look for another lab to try and join. I went with the latter and I can safely say it was the right call! Since starting at a clinical lab in January I've got about 40 hours of diagnostic interviewing under my belt. COVID delayed a lot of potential hours so that number would be closer to 100 otherwise. Our work is picking up again so as of now I'm averaging about 5 hours of clinical work a week. 

I find the heterogeneity of mental illness to be really interesting. It amazes me how there are so many possible ways someone might experience depression or any other given illness. The current work I'm doing in lab is focused on quantifying psychomotor agitation/retardation as it relates to depression. I find myself constantly inspired by the work itself, and the knowledge I'm gaining as a result. The idea of quantifying symptoms as opposed to assessing them via self-report or otherwise is really cool! So I've also gained further interest in physiological measures like EEG and MRI

I know "the heterogeneity of mental illness" is too broad of a pitch for graduate programs, I know I need to hone my research question specifically, but I have loved the clinical work and especially loved the research thus far. I think it's the right fit for me, I just have work on filling a gap in the field that isn't already filled. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts if you have any! 

Your interests in quantifying symptomolgy are absolutely vital to the field. If you do pick clinical psychology, it sounds like you might want to focus on health or neuropsychology as a specialty, if you enjoy assessment, testing, and biofeedback. I don't know how many clinical psychology departments have ready access to fMRI, so pick your programmes carefully.

I think you can connect your interests to clinical psych easily, just make sure you've reviewed all curriculum and clinical requirements for every programme you want to apply for to ensure you will be happy when you start attending. 

Again, you come across very well and I suspect you'll be a great candidate for any programme you apply to. I'm only going on about this because 'goodness of fit', for you and the programme, is extremely important. If you're interested in the NIMH RDoC as opposed to DSM, for example, you might find coursework infuriating in a clinical programme.