American University SIS - Respectable Program but Lags Behind the Rest of the IR Power 7

[GradSchoolGrad]

Granted every school has a distribution of quality of students and SIS does have some bright spots (American does well in PMF historically speaking), from a pure hirability perspective, I find SIS last (and in some cases way behind among the IR Power 7 (HKS, MSFS, SAIS, Fletcher, SIPA, Elliot, and SIS).

1. Career outcomes: If you look at the numbers of students going to the harder career tracks (both traditional and new age pivots) vs program size --> FSO, Consulting, PMF,Tech StartUps, Major Brand Name Research Organizatons, and Big Tech, SIS is simply behind if not non-present. I have been at an International Trade Office for a Fortune 50, Major Defense Research Organization, and Major Silicon Valley Tech Company --> not a single SIS person (at least that self-identified as SIS)

2. Graduate school experential activities (competitions, conferences, symposiums, and etc.) in the IR space --> I do occasionally find SIS people, but not really

3. Alumni Depth and Reach - Don't get me wrong, there are definitely high flying SIS alums out there, but their numbers and stature pale in comparison to the others of the Power 7. One IR internship I had was to put together the bio books of the China experts for a symposium on Chinese trade. I made a mental note of how few SIS people there were.

4. Collaborative opportunities: In today's interdisciplinary world, a program is sometimes just as good as their relevant sister grad programs. American's MBA and Law and Policy programs are respectable, but far from top tier. Other schools mastered how to have their IR program sync and collaborate much better

5. Anecdotal experience reading SIS resumes. As someone who is in the position to recommend hiring, I will point blank tell you that removing grad school attendance, the average SIS person is less impressive professionally compared with Elliot people - period.

I understand SIS to be pretty strong when it comes to community. However, community experience and access to the most competitive career opportunities are two separate things. Also - I will highlight that this year, the age of COVID did make things weird and different schools are having different pains. However, I highly doubt it will do any major reshuffling of the Power 7. 

[Acrimonia]

I went to SIS, and unfortunately I can't really disagree.  I did alright on the job market, but I had my active security clearance to thank for that.  In all my paid and unpaid experience, I think I've only run into one other SIS grad (and I'm not 100% about even that one).  You wouldn't think one ranking spot would make much of a difference, but the drop off does indeed seem to be pretty steep.  I fear I'm something of a permanent second class citizen in IR/the Beltway on account of it, to be perfectly blunt. 

That said, the causality isn't completely obvious.  I'm not sure how much SIS grads struggle because they're SIS grads, rather than struggling because they were in a worse position before even starting grad school.  After all, professional schools love to select students that are already on track so they can claim implicit credit for their success.  Moreover, it's my sense that school prestige matters little in government (including government contracting), so it's mainly consulting and the non-profit world where you're going to have a problem.  These are probably better jobs in reality anyway, even if they're not as glamorous.  On the other hand, if you're dealing with a sector where prestige is immaterial, then there's probably not much reason to shell out extra for a pricey private school (though the location is still a significant benefit).

As an aside, GW is kind of in a gray area, almost a class unto itself -- I wouldn't put it on par with the higher six personally.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Acrimonia

[AdvancedDegreeAlumnus]

@GradSchoolGrad Dude, did anyone ask you for your hot take? Seriously, you are insufferable. To the point that I literally made this account just to respond to this post. 

I have seen a couple of your posts, and I just want to make it clear to you (and every other person looking at grad schools) YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT ALL SCHOOLS. Neither do you know everything about all industries. 

When I was looking at grad school this forum was a useful resource to share tips among applicants. Now you are transforming it into your own personal fiefdom where you pass off your hot takes on various schools as credible advice for prospective students. 

@literally everyone else on here --> PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: do your own research and do not listen to this guy shouting down at you from his self perceived ivory tower. 

[GradSchoolGrad]

7 minutes ago, AdvancedDegreeAlumnus said:

@GradSchoolGrad Dude, did anyone ask you for your hot take? Seriously, you are insufferable. To the point that I literally made this account just to respond to this post. 

I have seen a couple of your posts, and I just want to make it clear to you (and every other person looking at grad schools) YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT ALL SCHOOLS. Neither do you know everything about all industries. 

When I was looking at grad school this forum was a useful resource to share tips among applicants. Now you are transforming it into your own personal fiefdom where you pass off your hot takes on various schools as credible advice for prospective students. 

@literally everyone else on here --> PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: do your own research and do not listen to this guy shouting down at you from his self perceived ivory tower. 

It is better to have some takes than no takes at all. I was sick and tired of seeing so many graduate students going in with 0 visibility or guidance, so I decided to be part of the solution.

Feel to agree or disagree as much as you want and discuss in the forum. Takes coming from a diversity of perspectives for a very expensive and time-consuming endeavor is enormously helpful. I never claim to be the end all and be all, but I do have a diverse array of experiences that lend itself to providing meaningful perspectives.

You are welcome to join in the conversation rather than be destructive and a source of negativity. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[InternationalStudent]

7 hours ago, AdvancedDegreeAlumnus said:

@GradSchoolGrad Dude, did anyone ask you for your hot take? Seriously, you are insufferable. To the point that I literally made this account just to respond to this post. 

I have seen a couple of your posts, and I just want to make it clear to you (and every other person looking at grad schools) YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT ALL SCHOOLS. Neither do you know everything about all industries. 

When I was looking at grad school this forum was a useful resource to share tips among applicants. Now you are transforming it into your own personal fiefdom where you pass off your hot takes on various schools as credible advice for prospective students. 

@literally everyone else on here --> PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: do your own research and do not listen to this guy shouting down at you from his self perceived ivory tower. 

I will agree that GSG does kinda sell himself as a jack of all trades when it comes to government affairs/IR grad school. But at the same time he does indicate that what he says is from his own experience and you should really take anything you see in this forum (or any others with anonymous posters) with a massive scoop of salt. Also he provides much needed content to this pretty dead forum, so I'd say he should continue to offer his advice if he wants to. 

I went to SIS for undergrad and I can tell you that our alumni (or at least the former classmates that I still see on LinkedIn) are pretty active in Congress, the Executive Branch (mostly State Dept, used to know people working in Obama White House), DC think tanks, multilateral development institutions, international orgs, law firms, and large IDEV firms. SIS has a very strong focus on development and public service so it's understandable that you wouldn't run into many grads at an International Trade Office for a Fortune 50, a Major Defense Research Organization, or a Major Silicon Valley Tech Company (although I've got one SIS connection in FAANG and one in Twitter)

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by InternationalStudent

[PostECR]

On 11/25/2020 at 3:35 PM, InternationalStudent said:

I will agree that GSG does kinda sell himself as a jack of all trades when it comes to government affairs/IR grad school. But at the same time he does indicate that what he says is from his own experience and you should really take anything you see in this forum (or any others with anonymous posters) with a massive scoop of salt. Also he provides much needed content to this pretty dead forum, so I'd say he should continue to offer his advice if he wants to. 

I went to SIS for undergrad and I can tell you that our alumni (or at least the former classmates that I still see on LinkedIn) are pretty active in Congress, the Executive Branch (mostly State Dept, used to know people working in Obama White House), DC think tanks, multilateral development institutions, international orgs, law firms, and large IDEV firms. SIS has a very strong focus on development and public service so it's understandable that you wouldn't run into many grads at an International Trade Office for a Fortune 50, a Major Defense Research Organization, or a Major Silicon Valley Tech Company (although I've got one SIS connection in FAANG and one in Twitter)

 

I feel like I've been summoned. Recent SIS undergrad currently working Global Trade for a Fortune 50. Actually hired alongside another AU grad, from SPA. 

[Acrimonia]

I've gotten the sense that SIS is a bit more prestigious at the undergrad level than the master's (I think that's often true in general though -- compare master-of-the-universe Harvard undergrad to HKS).

[InternationalStudent]

13 hours ago, PostECR said:

I feel like I've been summoned. Recent SIS undergrad currently working Global Trade for a Fortune 50. Actually hired alongside another AU grad, from SPA. 

Honestly, SIS has a pretty solid career center. Not sure if you got the job through them but they really put in the effort for students.

12 hours ago, Acrimonia said:

I've gotten the sense that SIS is a bit more prestigious at the undergrad level than the master's (I think that's often true in general though -- compare master-of-the-universe Harvard undergrad to HKS).

Yeah I can't think of a university where grad programs are more prestigious than undergrad. Maybe business schools? I'd be more interested if you went to Stern than NYU undergrad. Same with Wharton and UPenn unless your undergrad was in something really hard like pure math. 

[GradSchoolGrad]

On 12/10/2020 at 8:11 PM, PostECR said:

I feel like I've been summoned. Recent SIS undergrad currently working Global Trade for a Fortune 50. Actually hired alongside another AU grad, from SPA. 

I am speaking specifically for the Grad programs, hence this is Grad forum, and this is the first time I have ever engaged in a discussion about undergrad outcomes. 

[francophile_1]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:05 AM, InternationalStudent said:

Yeah I can't think of a university where grad programs are more prestigious than undergrad. Maybe business schools? I'd be more interested if you went to Stern than NYU undergrad. Same with Wharton and UPenn unless your undergrad was in something really hard like pure math. 

I feel like law school is also an exception here. NYU Law is T14 (the "ivy league" of law school as it were) vs. NYU undergrad, amazing but not quite in the same league as the Harvards of the world. Same deal with Michigan (also T14). If you look at law schools in the 15-30 range (which are all generally "regional" powerhouses) there are some surprising names like Fordham (#27), UT-Austin (#16), BU (#20), ASU (#24) etc. etc. 

TL;DR: I know entirely way too much about law school.