University of Virginia MA

[winterbearr]

Hi, is anyone on here currently at the MA program at UVA, or know someone who is / was going there in the past? I can't seem to find much information about where UVA MA students end up going after they graduate (whether that is a PhD program or a job) and would love to know, in addition to the size of the program (how many accepted / how many enroll per year).  

I am also curious about the benefits or disadvantages of attending this program, other than the obvious (no funding). How would PhD programs view this degree, including UVA's PhD program? Is it a plus for PhD admission because the candidate would have more depth & focus in their research interests? or potentially a minus because: 

• it might signal that I couldn't gain entry into UVA's PhD program (or other PhD programs) initially 
• for UVA specifically, they may not accept their MA students into their PhD program-- I know most PhD programs don't accept candidates who earned their BA there, so I wondered if this would be a similar case 

For context, I went to a top ten US university for undergrad (top five english department) so I wondered how much the MA would improve my potential for PhD admission, as opposed to just applying again next year with my BA. 

I would really appreciate any advice! Very lost :') 

[WildeThing]

I’m not in the MA program but during coursework it’s basically the same thing so I do have familiarity with it. In terms of cohort sizes it probably depends on the amount of applicants but the last cohort was 11 and the previous one was nearly 30 (there’s also a small group of students who are BA/MAs). These cohorts include the partly-funded teaching concentration MAs. The 30-person cohort was abnormally large so I think most years it’s 10-20.

MAs do various things. I know some go into K-12 teaching, other humanities positions, and some go into PhDs. I don’t know their placement rate but it might be something you could ask. I don’t know many of the MAs from the cohort above mine but I do know that one got into a PhD program and another was waitlisted by a couple. This year I know at least 2 have applied to PhDs and one has an offer but this year is strange and he cycle isn’t over anyway. I only know of one person who did their MA and then got accepted for the PhD here, so I would say making the jump is unlikely.

Generally speaking I’d say MAs are useful for two things: the prestige/name recognition of the institution and developing your potential research proposal. If you come from a top program already I’d say the first is mitigated. The second will depend. Personally I have learned a lot during coursework and if I was reapplying now I’d imagine I’d do much better (in a normal cycle anyway) and that’s despite having done previous MAs. I know a lot of the MAs have learned a lot and developed exciting projects and established good rapport with professors so with 2 years with the MA I’d say you’re likely to develop a more competitive candidacy. The department also has a wonderful placement officer who helps students during the application process.

Now, is that worth paying for an MA? That’s up to you, and you can read up on advice here about paying for a graduate degree. My general approach, and this has nothing to do with UVA specifically, is that paying for a graduate degree is very risky given the academic job market. If you DO decide it’s a risk worth taking I’d say UVA is a good option but I don’t know how equivalent programs operate to make an informed call.

(Also I don’t think departments care if you got rejected in previous cycles or that that they assume someone from an MA program must have been rejected from a PhD).

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by WildeThing

[Warelin]

An institution's prestige from the PHD or undergrad level does not translate onto Master programs. What does translate is whether or not they're viewed as cash cows for the institution. People often warn against going to places that have both terminal MA programs and PHD programs because a lot of the resources and faculty attention are often directed towards PHD students. There's a possibility that you'll be able to work with the professors you'd like but there's also a real possibility that they could be overbooked due to working with other students on their dissertation projects. Because of this, it's often easier to find support for your projects at the MA level at institutions that offer only the MA as the highest level.

As a whole, departments don't care where you do your MA nor that you got rejected in previous cycles. People have varying reasons why they decide to do their MA.

[WildeThing]

52 minutes ago, Warelin said:

An institution's prestige from the PHD or undergrad level does not translate onto Master programs. What does translate is whether or not they're viewed as cash cows for the institution. People often warn against going to places that have both terminal MA programs and PHD programs because a lot of the resources and faculty attention are often directed towards PHD students. There's a possibility that you'll be able to work with the professors you'd like but there's also a real possibility that they could be overbooked due to working with other students on their dissertation projects. Because of this, it's often easier to find support for your projects at the MA level at institutions that offer only the MA as the highest level.

As a whole, departments don't care where you do your MA nor that you got rejected in previous cycles. People have varying reasons why they decide to do their MA.

I think this is partly true. If you come from an institution that is not well-know, doing your MA at an institution that is (and demonstrating that you have performed well in that context) can mitigate your perceived risk. The other issue with prestige comes in the form of letter writers: if a well-known scholar is able to speak highly of you that also mitigates your perceived risk. This is why if you choose to take the financial risk of doing an unfunded MA (which I'm not saying you should), I think a 2-year MA gives you more opportunities to build rapport (and develop your materials) than a 1-year MA. For what it's worth, I'll repeat that MAs and PhD students, during coursework, are indistinguishable from each other at UVA both in coursework and in advising; we are provided the same access and resources (except for some funding opportunities for research).

Again, none of this should be perceived as an encouragement to do a unfunded MA.

[j.j.pizza]

2 hours ago, Warelin said:

People often warn against going to places that have both terminal MA programs and PHD programs because a lot of the resources and faculty attention are often directed towards PHD students. There's a possibility that you'll be able to work with the professors you'd like but there's also a real possibility that they could be overbooked due to working with other students on their dissertation projects. Because of this, it's often easier to find support for your projects at the MA level at institutions that offer only the MA as the highest level.

This is exactly why I pursued both of my MAs at institutions where the MA is the highest level. When you are at the highest level, you get more of the attention, resources, opportunities, and respect. Both of my MAs were also funded, which is less likely at places where there are both PhD and MA tracks. I encourage other MA applicants to make this a strong factor in their choices.

[j.j.pizza]

I'd like to add that my current MA program is so supportive that they even provide financial support to students applying to PhD programs--even up to 3 years after completing their MA. It's a good environment.

[Warelin]

2 hours ago, WildeThing said:

I think this is partly true. If you come from an institution that is not well-know, doing your MA at an institution that is (and demonstrating that you have performed well in that context) can mitigate your perceived risk. The other issue with prestige comes in the form of letter writers: if a well-known scholar is able to speak highly of you that also mitigates your perceived risk. This is why if you choose to take the financial risk of doing an unfunded MA (which I'm not saying you should), I think a 2-year MA gives you more opportunities to build rapport (and develop your materials) than a 1-year MA. For what it's worth, I'll repeat that MAs and PhD students, during coursework, are indistinguishable from each other at UVA both in coursework and in advising; we are provided the same access and resources (except for some funding opportunities for research).

Again, none of this should be perceived as an encouragement to do a unfunded MA.

You and I are agreeing on a lot of things and disagreeing on others. However, it's dangerous to say that a program's PHD ranking (which is really just the opinion of the approximately 28 people who bother filling out that survey) transfers over to the MA side of things. University of Chicago has the top ranked English PHD program. However, their MAPH program is often regarded as among the lowest of MA programs. While often a 1 year program, many people do choose to take 2 years at MAPH.

I agree with you that a 2 year program allows you to build more opportunities and I'd argue that there is no such thing as a one year program.  One year programs might exist in theory that you'll only be taking classes for a year but there's almost no way that you'd be able to build relationships to have them ready by the time applications roll around. Because of when applications are due, you'd likely only have about a month or two to ask for letters and not enough time to build a substantial improvement of new material for your writing sample. As a result, most people in one year programs often don't apply until year 2.

Even well-known scholars aren't guaranteed to get you in anywhere and I'd argue that the job market has done a much better job of ensuring that they're just about everywhere these days. The problem with well-known scholars is that universities know their style. If the scholar has a habit of saying that every applicant is among the best of their class, their letter starts having less weight. Often in times, a letter can carry a lot of weight if the admissions committee personally knows the letter writer because they're friends, they met at a conference, or they attended school together. Those lines are only getting blurrier as time goes on.

I'd argue that funding opportunity is the most important resource as an MA student. I'd avoid accepting an offer to any school which does not offer you a tuition waiver at least. I'd also seriously look into how busy a professor at a school offering both an MA and a PHD as a terminal degree may be. While students might be indistinguishable in class, it might not be the case outside of class. Multiple dissertations can take a large time commitment that can often result in rejecting other people if they're trying to balance that, service to the institution, research and classes. Professors are human too and as a result, it's often easier to get a stronger letter from institutions that don't offer a PHD in your field because they'll don't have to juggle multiple dissertations on top of their courseload.
 

[WildeThing]

On 3/4/2021 at 12:48 PM, Warelin said:

You and I are agreeing on a lot of things and disagreeing on others. However, it's dangerous to say that a program's PHD ranking (which is really just the opinion of the approximately 28 people who bother filling out that survey) transfers over to the MA side of things. University of Chicago has the top ranked English PHD program. However, their MAPH program is often regarded as among the lowest of MA programs. While often a 1 year program, many people do choose to take 2 years at MAPH.
 

I agree that rankings are meaningless, but I didn't say ranking, I said prestige (or at least, perceived prestige) and that is meaningful. I've said this many times (and I know not everyone agrees on this), but coming from a known quantity institution plays a big role in your image and perceived risk for committees. Doing graduate-level work at a respected program, and having the LoRs and SoP to show that, will carry some weight, especially for those who do not have the privilege of coming from well-known programs.

 

On 3/4/2021 at 12:48 PM, Warelin said:

Even well-known scholars aren't guaranteed to get you in anywhere and I'd argue that the job market has done a much better job of ensuring that they're just about everywhere these days. The problem with well-known scholars is that universities know their style. If the scholar has a habit of saying that every applicant is among the best of their class, their letter starts having less weight. Often in times, a letter can carry a lot of weight if the admissions committee personally knows the letter writer because they're friends, they met at a conference, or they attended school together. Those lines are only getting blurrier as time goes on.

I'd argue that funding opportunity is the most important resource as an MA student. I'd avoid accepting an offer to any school which does not offer you a tuition waiver at least. I'd also seriously look into how busy a professor at a school offering both an MA and a PHD as a terminal degree may be. While students might be indistinguishable in class, it might not be the case outside of class. Multiple dissertations can take a large time commitment that can often result in rejecting other people if they're trying to balance that, service to the institution, research and classes. Professors are human too and as a result, it's often easier to get a stronger letter from institutions that don't offer a PHD in your field because they'll don't have to juggle multiple dissertations on top of their courseload.
 

I agree with these notions in the abstract, but they are abstracts. I see no reason to assume any letter writer is being discounted because they keep recommending people energetically but yes, if such a person exists, they letter might be perceived as less valuable. And while, again, in theory professor might be too busy to connect with students, in the specific context OP is asking about my claim is that this is not a fear. I'm not saying all profs are always available, but that a prof being available to you does not depend on your status as MA/PhD. Of course, perhaps an MA student here will have a different perspective but many of my MA classmates have formed deeper bonds with professors than I have and, based on my experience, there is no difference between MA students and PhD students at this stage (other than what I noted above).

But yes, funding is the single most important factor and I would think long and hard before committing to an unfunded program, no matter which one it is.