Seeking help from psychology graduates in the US

[local_panda]

This is a cry for help, I don't think I have ever been this lost academically. I have a bachelor's degree in arts with a major in Psychology from Mumbai, India. I want to pursue higher education in the United States of America, and as a Psychology major, I know I have four paths leading to grad school in the US

1. Masters (60 credits program) leading to state license

2. Masters pre-doctoral track (30-42 credits)

3. PsyD

4. PhD

Deciding which track is best suited for me is a predicament. I do not see myself pursuing a Ph.D. because of the heavy emphasis on research, so when it comes to choosing a doctoral program, PsyD is a preference. However, two questions pop into my mind:

1. As an international student, is it judicious to incur an enormous student loan debt of almost 150000$ to pursue PsyD?

2. If the above is not that bad of an idea, how can I strengthen my application - having some serious deficiencies - enough to be a desirable candidate for the said program?

With an undergraduate GPA of only 3.05, an average GRE score of 157V150Q, and very limited research/clinical experience, I think it makes sense to pursue a Master's degree first. The question here is whether to do it from my home country, i.e., India (and save a couple thousand $$), or a state university in the US. Getting a master's degree from India will definitely provide a good amount of exposure but, I am not sure if I will be given the same preference as the domestic applicants. When it comes to doing my masters in the US is it better to opt for a program of 30 or 60 credits?

If you are a psychology graduate who went through something similar, I would be eternally grateful if you could provide some guidance as to what should be my next step. I would really appreciate it if you can have a look at my resume and underscore the prerequisites and experiences I need to procure to become a desirable candidate for a PsyD/Masters program.

 

[PsyDuck90]

For any student, international or domestic, racking up that much debt for a PsyD is honestly not recommended. Also, the worthwhile PsyDs require research as well and require relatively extensive research experience previously. 

Most of the master's programs that lead to licensure will be about 60 credits. However, licensure varies from state to state, and programs typically align themselves with their state laws. 

Do you ultimately want to practice in the US or in India? If the latter, I would just make sure that whatever option you choose allows you to work in that capacity in India and then choose the cheapest path. If you plan to go the master's route, I don't really understand why you would complete a master's in India and then another in the US. If you want the master's to make you more competitive for a doctoral program, I would try to focus my efforts on gaining research experience. Especially as an international student, most tuition tends to be even higher than for domestic applicants, so you would really want to get into a program with funding. 

[local_panda]

On 10/2/2021 at 7:25 AM, PsyDuck90 said:

For any student, international or domestic, racking up that much debt for a PsyD is honestly not recommended. Also, the worthwhile PsyDs require research as well and require relatively extensive research experience previously. 

Most of the master's programs that lead to licensure will be about 60 credits. However, licensure varies from state to state, and programs typically align themselves with their state laws. 

Do you ultimately want to practice in the US or in India? If the latter, I would just make sure that whatever option you choose allows you to work in that capacity in India and then choose the cheapest path. If you plan to go the master's route, I don't really understand why you would complete a master's in India and then another in the US. If you want the master's to make you more competitive for a doctoral program, I would try to focus my efforts on gaining research experience. Especially as an international student, most tuition tends to be even higher than for domestic applicants, so you would really want to get into a program with funding. 

Thank you for your prompt response. I totally agree with your advice to gain sufficient research experience before I apply to a doctoral program. 

To clarify, 

1. I definitely want to practice in the US post my masters/PsyD. To be honest, I am just trying to figure out the best possible route that will allow me to practice in the US as a licensed psychologist. 
2. The reason why I’m considering doing my masters in India is because it’s easier to get into a masters program here than getting into a program in the US. Plus it is cheap, so I can save a good amount of money to invest in a PsyD. However, I’m worried I won't get the same preference as the other applicants from within America. 

[SoundofSilence]

This is less about you being an international, and more about the research experience you have (for the most part).

Good PhD/PsyD programs (with funding and reputable faculty and resources) are very very competitive. To get into such a program, you need very good research exposure, along with research products (publications, posters, presentations) and pretty well defined research interests. A master's or a Research Assistant position for about two years might help with those, considering you GPA and GRE scores. This applies to all applicants, international or not.

A licensable master's can be a shortcut here (less research experience needed) but also the costs go up a lot and you have to deal with not being a licensed "psychologist" (since you need a doctorate for that) and less access to some skills, such as assessment. If you have access to those funds, it might be a better investment, however loans are more tricky (and you also might need a US co-signer).

The part about you being international comes into getting licensed - to get licensed you need clinical hours (during and after the degree) which might be difficult to obtain in the US as a F1 (student visa) due to work restrictions on that visa. Some research institutions may help you get a H1B (work visa) after training but predominantly clinical ones (like private practice) might not help with this. So I would also carefully consider the immigration aspects as well. Unfortunately, the green card queue is very long for India, so even if you manage to get a H1B after your degree, you will have to wait a decade or more to become a permanent resident.

I am not trying to discourage you, but I want to make you aware of certain aspects that you might not have considered. 

 

 

[local_panda]

On 10/6/2021 at 7:04 PM, SoundofSilence said:

This is less about you being an international, and more about the research experience you have (for the most part).

Good PhD/PsyD programs (with funding and reputable faculty and resources) are very very competitive. To get into such a program, you need very good research exposure, along with research products (publications, posters, presentations) and pretty well defined research interests. A master's or a Research Assistant position for about two years might help with those, considering you GPA and GRE scores. This applies to all applicants, international or not.

A licensable master's can be a shortcut here (less research experience needed) but also the costs go up a lot and you have to deal with not being a licensed "psychologist" (since you need a doctorate for that) and less access to some skills, such as assessment. If you have access to those funds, it might be a better investment, however loans are more tricky (and you also might need a US co-signer).

The part about you being international comes into getting licensed - to get licensed you need clinical hours (during and after the degree) which might be difficult to obtain in the US as a F1 (student visa) due to work restrictions on that visa. Some research institutions may help you get a H1B (work visa) after training but predominantly clinical ones (like private practice) might not help with this. So I would also carefully consider the immigration aspects as well. Unfortunately, the green card queue is very long for India, so even if you manage to get a H1B after your degree, you will have to wait a decade or more to become a permanent resident.

I am not trying to discourage you, but I want to make you aware of certain aspects that you might not have considered. 

 

 

Really appreciate your response. I will definitely take into consideration the immigration aspects before making the final decision. I just have one question, what will be a better option when it comes to choosing a master's program, in your opinion. Since my ultimate career objective is to practice as a licensed psychologist in the US, should I choose a master's program designed to prepare students for doctoral training in Psychology, or is it better to invest more money, apply to a licensable master's program, practice for couple of years and finally apply to a doctoral program? Is the latter a more difficult program to get into ? 

[SoundofSilence]

On 10/16/2021 at 2:33 PM, local_panda said:

Really appreciate your response. I will definitely take into consideration the immigration aspects before making the final decision. I just have one question, what will be a better option when it comes to choosing a master's program, in your opinion. Since my ultimate career objective is to practice as a licensed psychologist in the US, should I choose a master's program designed to prepare students for doctoral training in Psychology, or is it better to invest more money, apply to a licensable master's program, practice for couple of years and finally apply to a doctoral program? Is the latter a more difficult program to get into ? 

This is also a "it depends" answer.

With a licensable master's, you don't get to have the "psychologist" title. So if that's your goal, you still need to do a doctorate in some form. You could do a clinical master's, practice for a few years and then go back.. but you must take into account that very few people return for more education - life and responsibilities get in the way and it might not be financially feasible to give up a paying role to go back to school full time again after some years. However, if you do an experimental master's, with the goal of applying to doctoral programs, you have to take into account that you need to be seriously productive during those two years - papers/posters, network with people, get good references.  

It really depends how you see your own trajectory, what kind of support you'll have now and in the future (from family, significant other if applicable, etc.)

It depends on the program, but an experimental master's might be easier to get into IF there is a good match between you and the program/ supervisor, depending how the program is set up. Clinical master's might be easier to get into if you have good grades and maybe some good experience relevant to clinical.

There is no easy answer for this because it's highly dependent on your own personal circumstances and your own goals. I think it's best to take some time to reflect on this and consult with some persons close to you - such as an academic mentor, close family members. As an international student, you will need a good amount of support (both financial and moral) to successfully move to another country. This is more tangential, but many of the internationals I know had a tough first year, whether in undergrad or grad school - no matter how much you think you know about a country or area, you'll always have a culture shock, you'll deal with obstacles that you might have never considered or prepared for, and at the same time you have to perform academically at a high level, in a language different than your native one. It is not easy. It gets better with time, but don't underestimate this process.

My advice is - unless you're already financially self-sufficient, don't add financial issues on top of this - as in, don't make the move unless the program gives you at least minimal funding or you have a good financial backing. If you are set on being a practicing psychologist, the best way is to follow through with the master's and then the PhD (or directly PhD), because it increases your chances that you will actually reach that goal. And lastly - have you considered being a remote RA for a lab that interests you? Since the pandemic many labs have taken on remote RAs and maybe that can help clarify some of your questions. 

[VentureIntoNothingness]

As an International student, I agree with SoundofSilence that you may want to carefully look into the visa situation post Master's/Doctorate degree in the US. My impression is that you may be able to find a practice that would take you for the duration of OPT after a Master's degree. But beyond that, I am unaware of private practices that would sponsor a work visa. Doctoral programs would offer more flexibility but the visa issues remain. Hospital/University medical centers may be an option as they are not restricted by H1B quotas but my impression that the hires that require visa sponsorship almost always involve certain research mmm "excellence".