(Canada 2023) MPP/MPA Applications

[Hell0W0rld]

4 hours ago, gweapons said:

UoA will be releasing decisions by the end of March or the first week of April. Does your application still show pre-screening?

I hope you hear back soon. I haven’t applied to UofA my self, but I was asking thinking that both Alberta schools might be informing candidates around the same time. 

[gweapons]

3 minutes ago, Hell0W0rld said:

I hope you hear back soon. I haven’t applied to UofA my self, but I was asking thinking that both Alberta schools might be informing candidates around the same time. 

Yes, both schools are very much connected. 

[Sunflower777]

Anyone have any advice on choosing between NPSIA at Carleton and GPSIA at UOttawa? Really struggling with making a decision

[BTF]

11 hours ago, Sunflower777 said:

Anyone have any advice on choosing between NPSIA at Carleton and GPSIA at UOttawa? Really struggling with making a decision

Pick the one that has the best coop placement rates, most offered funding to you, and cheapest tuition. I have a feeling NPSIA will meet all three of these over GPSIA. 

[nevermindthespock]

Has anyone had any recent updates from the UVic MPA or TMU MPPA?

[gweapons]

Hi folks. I got accepted at the UoA Policy Studies program on Monday.

[Leo_30]

@nevermindthespockI was asked to provide additional information (recent transcripts) to TMU last week.

I was also told that my application was being considered by the Graduate Admissions Committee. 

I am hoping to hear back from them soon. 

 

[nevermindthespock]

9 minutes ago, Leo_30 said:

@nevermindthespockI was asked to provide additional information (recent transcripts) to TMU last week.

I was also told that my application was being considered by the Graduate Admissions Committee. 

I am hoping to hear back from them soon. 

 

That's amazing! Good luck.

[nevermindthespock]

Just received an acceptance for the UVic online MPA! 

[diplo08]

I honestly can't be the only person who hasn't heard back from WLU as yet😩. I don't even think they have looked at my application yet as I can still see the checklist🙃. Should I send an email or would that def hurt my chances?

[Polaroid5]

Anyone thinking about going to Queens for their MPA? 

[boyyoudontknow]

Has anyone else that applied to McGill seen any status change updates in recent weeks? My application remains In Review...

Edited March 28, 2023 by boyyoudontknow

[nevermindthespock]

Just got accepted to TMU! Got an email from the program director. Good luck to everyone, that's it for me this year just need to make some decisions

[prospectivegradstudent25]

On 3/10/2023 at 2:06 AM, aerivel said:

Hi! Same boat as you! I got accepted into NPSIA and planning to move to Ottawa from the GTA area. Happy to connect with you and anyone else as well!

oh, great, hi! 

Thats comforting to know! Will you be living on res? if you don't mind me asking  

[bffr]

When is the last date for Munk March offers? Just trying to see when to expect an answer from them 

[bffr]

Just got accepted to McGill! 
GPA: 3.49, decent volunteer work, two years of work ex at a nonprofit, and strong statement+LORs.

all the best to all who got accepted and those waiting!

[boyyoudontknow]

Got into McGill! The wait was absolutely terrifying but I'm so excited to be going to my dream school. Wishing everyone all the best

[readingange]

Anyone ask any of their schools for an extension to accept/decline their offer? Do they generally allow extensions? 

[Caffeinated23]

Recently got accepted into TMU MPPA  Good luck all

[nevermindthespock]

On 4/6/2023 at 1:29 PM, Caffeinated23 said:

Recently got accepted into TMU MPPA  Good luck all

See you in September! Let me know if you hear of a group chat or FB group or something?

[boyyoudontknow]

Is anyone else in the McGill MPP interested in setting up a group chat? I had my university send official transcripts to McGill (which were delivered yesterday) and I'm curious how long it will take to update on my profile so that I can register for classes.

[Liv987]

Hi everyone!

I am new to this forum (and policy programs). I’m graduating from undergrad this year and had originally put everything into applications for a master of social work. I’ve been waitlisted at 2 schools, rejected at one, and still waiting on a last one but I wanted to branch out. I was approved for a late application to Munk earlier this week for their MPP program which I have now applied for. As I am new to this whole area, I’m not sure if anyone can shed some light on stats of those who were accepted to the program this year?

[BTF]

On 1/7/2023 at 3:50 PM, TheZarosian said:

Hello All,

Time for my yearly and refreshed post on my take on some of the popular MPP/MPA programs! I hope this helps you in your applications and decisions. As always, feel free to DM me at any time should you have additional questions.

Some background about me: I am a policy analyst that works full-time in an indeterminate (permanent) position for the Federal Government. I started working full-time in Spring 2019 and started my MPPA at Carleton part-time in Fall 2019 concurrently, which I finished in Spring 2021. Overall, I have about 5 years’ experience in provincial and federal government from five different departments/ministries, 1.5 of which was from co-op, and another 3.5 from full-time work.

My government career started through Co-op when I was an undergraduate student in 2016. I did some time in provincial and federal government in various co-op roles. This included roles in environment policy, transit policy, infrastructure policy, education infrastructure, and finance policy. By the time I finished my undergraduate degree in Spring 2019, I had about 20 months government experience, plus a couple of full-time offers from the Federal government on the table.

Based on my own experience and research, I've written a breakdown of some of the common master's level policy programs out there in Ontario. Note of course, that this is my opinion and not presented as fact. While I do present facts and figures to back it up, it is by no means a factual piece, nor does it represent the views of my employer in which school is better. These are solely my views.

Waterloo MPS

Waterloo MPS is overall a solid pick for people wanting to enter all levels of government. I sat with these guys during my undergraduate as a professor was kind enough to allow me to sit in on his graduate-level teaching. The caliber of the teaching plus the Co-op is great. Plenty of these people are with me in Ottawa, many having secured permanent full-time roles. The professional and employment outcome focus of the program is what sets it apart. The MPS boasts a Co-op hire rate of 95-100 percent (verified by the MPS Director as 100 per cent for the past six co-op cycles) and has excellent job outcomes both federally and provincially. The split between provincial and federal opportunities is roughly equal, perhaps with a slight lean towards federal.

I have great respect and admiration for the Director of the MPS. He has assembled a great program and has flexed his connections to help secure Co-ops for his students. In Spring 2020, when COVID was in full swing and some students unexpectedly lost offers, he personally and tirelessly reached out and talked to his contacts in government to secure the last couple of students their Co-op jobs. 

The format of the program is 8 months full-time school, 8 months paid Co-op, and 4 months a major team project. Almost everyone does the major team project remotely and works full-time during it. So it’s pretty much 8 months of schooling only and you’re off to doing paid work. People usually transition from being a student to a full-timer right after their 8 months Co-op is done.

I also find that this program is more diverse than traditional policy schools, which are usually filled with students from undergrads like political science, economics, sociology, legal studies, etc. Since the MPS does not have any major/course specific prerequisites to apply, you see more students in different varying fields come in, which contributes to a diverse wealth of knowledge sharing between students.

As the MPS is just over a decade or so old, it can't really compete at the same tier as the decades-established policy giants, which I speak on later on. However, it is an all-around very solid program. They run a really tight ship and the program markets itself very well as a "conveyer belt" program - get people, sharpen up their skills, and make cookie cutter policy analysts at fast speed. As time passes and the program becomes more well-established with alumni in key government roles, it is likely to become even more well-known.

The only downside is that the MPS is not funded, so you’re going to be paying the full $23,000 tuition bill.

Queen’s MPA

Queen’s is the King (or the Queen I guess?) of provincial government. I would say that Queen’s is the number one place to go if you’re intent on working for the Ontario government. The Ontario government hires from Queens in droves, mainly due to having a long reputation with Queens and a historically strong relationship with their policy programs.

The program format is 8 months full-time school, followed by Co-op of 4 months. During the Co-op term, you would do one course. As far as I understand, the one course requirement in summer tends to be highly accommodating. For example, you can pick a self-directed reading course that would simply be self-studying readings and coming up with a paper, or there are block courses that can be done in a week. Similar to Waterloo, most people work full-time after they are done the first 8 months.

Queen’s is definitely the top choice for provincial, and along with a cheap tuition of less than $20,000 (oftentimes funded generously by scholarships), it’s a great deal. With a strong application, you are likely to pay less than $10,000 total for the tuition.

Carleton MPPA

Definitely the king of federal government, and my number one choice for anyone who wants to work federal. Carleton has an over 50 years established relationship with the federal government, and the professors here are routinely retired public servants or current public servants who teach part-time here and there. Carleton, by nature of being in Ottawa, feeds their students primarily into the Federal government.

The program is 8 months of full-time school, followed by Co-op of 4-8 months, and then people usually finish off their degree during the evenings while working part-time. Again, similar to Queen’s and Waterloo, you really only do 8 months of school so long as you stack your courses in the first 8 months and don’t prolong your degree unnecessarily by taking extra electives or taking less than five or four courses a term.

An added benefit of Carleton is the absolutely amazing funding packages. And it’s absolutely amazing. Carleton offered me a whopping $46,000 in funding. Of that, $26,000 was straight up scholarships, while $20,000 was from a TA position. The tuition of the program is only $23,000. So these guys essentially paid me to go to their school.

For the federal level, Carleton absolutely comes on top here. From my experience, Carleton and uOttawa make up about 80 per cent of student hires in federal, and something like 70 per cent of full-time workers I know come from one of those two schools. An interesting analysis done on the federal public servants subreddit corroborates my own anecdotal writing, showing that the backgrounds of most seasoned executives with long government work histories within the senior public service come from one of uOttawa or Carleton. There is also some discussion in the same thread that sheds some insight on the primary feeder schools for federal government.

University of Ottawa MA Public Admin/Admin Publique

I won’t say much here because it’s Carleton all over again. Whatever I said for Carleton, applies equally to uOttawa. Funny enough, uOttawa and Carleton have a small rivalry with their Masters programs. All around another top federal choice.

I will say that I have great respect for the Public Admin focus that uOttawa has. I find that many policy schools now are cutting back their public administration curricula and instead focusing on the “sexier” field of public policy. And I get it, students are attracted to public policy – they aren’t as attracted to understanding the mundane machinery of government. They want to solve problems in the world whether it be the environment, economy, infrastructure, housing, or transit, provide options 1, 2, 3, and be done with their briefing note. Public policy is all about putting your ideas forward, and people love doing that.

But the problem with the policy focus is that you end up with students who are excellent policy thinkers that are able to put forward good policy solutions to problems, but very poor understanders of how the administration of government actually works and how policy ideas get turned into actual policy. An understanding of how the public service functions and its relationship to the elected political officials is vital for any policy analyst job, as well as an understanding of how to navigate the complex and oftentimes confusing labyrinth that is the bureaucracy. This is something that a Public Admin focus does well in and really grounds students in their expectations for what an entry-level junior policy analyst is expected to work on.

UofT Munk MPP

I’m sorry. I know how hyped up UofT is at times, but I mostly have bad things to say about this program.

I feel that the UofT MPP is overall a disappointment, and it seems like an outdated program. While all the programs I mentioned above are largely one-year “job creation” programs that focus on feeding people in Co-ops and having them transition to full-time work quickly, UofT’s MPP reads more like a traditional 2-year academic program, with a strong focus on rigorous quantitative courses. The UofT MPP tuition is $40,000 in total, double the other programs mentioned above. As far as I understand, funding packages are limited to some thousands of dollars. You’re sinking an additional 8 months in lost wages, plus additional tuition.

The UofT MPP has some of the worst internship options out here, with a 4-month summer internship between your first and second year. Because you’re expected to go back to school full-time after this, you are unable to be seamlessly transitioned into full-time work like many of the other programs above. Managers love it when they can just promote a student to a full-timer and have them start right away. They love it much less when the student says, “hey sorry, can you wait 8 months for me to finish school?”

To be precise, the discontinuous 8 month FT, summer internship, then another 8 months FT format has significant disadvantages both at the provincial (Ontario) and federal level. Provincially, only current students are given access to internal postings and so plenty who are able to transition directly into full-time without having to go back to school get "poached" into full-time roles quite rapidly. For example, some students I worked with who were doing their Co-ops at Waterloo MPS got poached within their first four months as a student into a full-time role. This is especially true since the Conservatives were elected in 2018 and required that external postings be subject to high-level reviews before being approved. Due to this, the internal hiring of students is one of the few ways for managers to get fresh blood.

At the federal level, students and former students are able to be appointed full-time without a competition/applying (known as "bridging"). Student bridging tends to be one of the most popular ways to hire full-time roles, as it is administratively simple to process and does not require Managers to conduct interviews, tests, etc. This is most favorably given to current students who can start immediately, without having to go back to school. It is very difficult for a Manager to predict their working requirements after 8 months of a student going back to school, which is the situation that the UofT MPP would force students into. Networking for opportunities is far easier for both levels of government when you are still in the system, as you have far greater access to meetings, emails, networking groups, unofficial job postings, teams/skype accounts for chats, etc.

Overall, I feel that the UofT MPP is just not a good deal. When people from Carleton, Queens, and Waterloo are being fed into the workplace within 8 months with programs of half the tuition that was generously subsidized based on the scholarships provided, UofT’s program just lacks “feeder” mentality on getting people on the job quickly.

The small upside is that the UofT MPP does have some more diversity in employment. Non-profits, NGOs, private sector consulting, and other positions tend to be more noticeable at UofT’s MPP, compared to the straight up government feeders of other programs. But if your goal really is to get onboarded into a government job quickly, with a cheap degree to boot, UofT is not the place to go in my view.

McGill Max Bell MPP

Not really in Ontario, but definitely an interesting new contender in the system. The McGill MPP is a relatively new program that started in 2018/2019. Much like the other feeder type programs, the McGill MPP is a one-year program that focuses on fast completion to get people in the policy workforce.

There are a couple issues that I do have with the program however. First, and most importantly, the program lacks a dedicated Co-op complement. The vast majority of provincial and federal hiring is picked from former students/interns. The number one tip posted by federal public servants in their subreddit on how to get in government is as follows:  The single easiest way to join the public service is to get a co-op term, do an outstanding job, and get bridged into permanent work. Even if you don't get bridged, co-op means you've got hands-on experience performing government work in a government environment, which puts you head and shoulders above other applicants who lack this experience. It's a huge advantage -- if you qualify.

The second issue, which really underpins the first issue, is that the program is largely not designed for fresh undergraduates looking to dip their feet into government. It’s more for early career professionals who are looking to boost their credentials with a Master’s. On their site, they indicate that the program is directed at “early career professionals — ideally with two to five years of professional experience — who are interested in developing expertise in the field of public policy”.

The third issue, which isn’t necessarily the fault of the school, is that the program is new. Public policy programs rely on a strong alumni network to establish themselves and ensure that they have the connections needed to secure their students strong opportunities. The Carleton, uOttawa, and Queens programs by virtue of being around longer have been greatly successful in this venture. The uWaterloo MPS, through the dedication of its Director, have made huge strides as well towards establishing their network through a short period of time. The McGill MPP could in the future pull this off, but for now it is still in its infancy and there is not yet the critical mass of alumni needed.

While I can see how the McGill MPP could be useful for someone already in government, or at the very least in a quasi-government field such as NGOs, banking, public sector consulting, non-profits, etc., it wouldn’t be as useful of a program for a fresh grad looking to get experience right away.

Ryerson MA Public Policy and Administration

This program is, in my opinion, a relatively mediocre choice. The problem that I usually see here is that if you got into Ryerson, you might as well go to Queen’s or Carleton because you probably got into those too.

The employment prospects here are just not as good, mainly due to the lack of an established relationship between Ryerson and either Provincial or Federal government.

The degree itself is the cheapest out of anything mentioned, but it’s just not as good of a deal. This is especially true if Carleton and Queen’s are pumping out huge scholarships.

For those who are already working though, the Ryerson program does offer a way to complete the degree at night while still continuing to work full-time.

Western MPA

Admittedly, I know very little about this program, but it seems to be the place to go if you want to be in local government. Western’s MPA specializes specifically in municipal government, and I can’t see Waterloo, Queen’s or Carleton filling this gap.

@Liv987 Read this to get a better idea of the various Ontario public policy programs and how they work. If you have more questions, feel free to message me. Congrats on your acceptance! 

[Liv987]

16 minutes ago, BTF said:

@Liv987 Read this to get a better idea of the various Ontario public policy programs and how they work. If you have more questions, feel free to message me. Congrats on your acceptance! 

Hey! Thank you. Sorry- I don’t think my post was super clear. I wasn’t accepted to the program but was just approved to submit a late application based on my GPA. I am not sure when they will review my application but I was hoping to hear from other people who have been accepted about their stats.

[Red Tape]

Received an offer from Munk yesterday, but I've already accepted Carleton. Hopefully the offer goes to someone still waiting on UofT. Best of luck to all waiting on results. - I hope everyone receives their first or at least second choice.