Ignorant Dean / Professor

[matilda]

So, here is the problem I have:

I applied for a Masters program 3 semesters+1 one semester ( 3 sem. course and 1 sem. thesis writing). The problem is that each of my semesters lasted for 1 year?! Because of ignorant professors saying "I don't have time...." to the Dean who kicked me out of her office this morning (she is my 3.sem. professor) saying: "I don't have the time for this.....".

I had to pay in advance for each of these semesters, my thesis proposal is in my research study objectives proposal for numerous scholarships....yet, I have to put in my CV that I am attending a M.Sc.Program that is lasting (so far) for 3 years..........and I barely see the end of it! It is 2007 when I got accepted, and now it is 2010 and I just had 2 semesters???!!!!

I have a difficult time explaining to potential advisors that I am not an imbecil, that I have great grades on my exams, but it is the Dean, and her entourage of professors are too lazy.

I already have one Masters, but I gave my money for this one, too!

Tell me, is there a way out? Can you help me with advices, because I felt really humiliated by my DEAN KICKING ME OUT OF HER OFFICE, saying I am too busy to have students...and actually , it was her job/will/obligation to lecture me through 3 semester.

I am very angry.

Edited September 20, 2010 by matilda

[Eigen]

Are you saying it's 3 years and you still haven't finished the coursework?

Or you got through the coursework, and have been working on the Thesis an extra year?

Because if the latter, than your situation is very typical. If you have enough research done, you can push the issue by starting on your thesis (I assume you have a committee?). You could also ask some of your committee members whether they think you've done enough research to graduate yet or not, as well.

Still, 3-4 years for a MSc isn't that uncommon.

[fuzzylogician]

I'm confused, is your program structures so that you have to have one specific professor as a mentor each semester, and that person changes each time? That doesn't sound very productive. I didn't understand if you're still doing coursework or if you're supposed to be writing your thesis. If you're doing coursework maybe you can take a different class with a nicer professor; if this professor is supposed to be your thesis advisor I'd advise about the same -- find someone who you can work with, who will support your research. What do other people in your department do? Do they also take very long to graduate? If they somehow get through the program faster, maybe there's something you can change to improve your pace?

[matilda]

Are you saying it's 3 years and you still haven't finished the coursework?

Or you got through the coursework, and have been working on the Thesis an extra year?

Because if the latter, than your situation is very typical. If you have enough research done, you can push the issue by starting on your thesis (I assume you have a committee?). You could also ask some of your committee members whether they think you've done enough research to graduate yet or not, as well.

Still, 3-4 years for a MSc isn't that uncommon.

I have just been to the classes of the Semester No.1 and Semester No.2. That is 3 courses per each semester, which took my Faculty 3 years to teach.

I cannot even tell you how pissed I am by writing this.

Now, I want to take my Semester No.3 courses, and the Dean (who is actually supposed to teach those two bloody subjects) kicked me out of her office today.

I applied for a research on Harvard, Johns Hopkins, North Carolina on CH, and all of those great teachers there responded like :" I would love to have you here!!!!!". I feel ashamed.

[matilda]

I'm confused, is your program structures so that you have to have one specific professor as a mentor each semester, and that person changes each time? That doesn't sound very productive. I didn't understand if you're still doing coursework or if you're supposed to be writing your thesis. If you're doing coursework maybe you can take a different class with a nicer professor; if this professor is supposed to be your thesis advisor I'd advise about the same -- find someone who you can work with, who will support your research. What do other people in your department do? Do they also take very long to graduate? If they somehow get through the program faster, maybe there's something you can change to improve your pace?

We have like three courses each semester. Each course is held by a different teacher, but basically there are like 5 of them that teach through the whole M.Sc. program. Each of the professors has 2 subjects approx.

I was supposed to have my coursework finished by beginning of 2009, but I have only had 2 semesters so far. Each of them lasted for one year. That is - ridiculous. And then, a year break. Explanation : the professors are too busy with undergrads.

I was suppose to be done by now. I was supposed to have a degree in my pocket. But, they are not allowing me to take the coursework. Explanation: they are too busy.

My whole year of classmates are on the same boat. Meanwhile, I applied for another MA, and I had it done in no time. I have a degree, I can go for a PhD if I want to, but the thing is that I started something and I really want to get it done!

And , yes, this professor is the only one that teaches Semester No.3.

How do I push this?

Edited September 20, 2010 by matilda

[fuzzylogician]

1285010221' post=161289]

We have like three courses each semester. Each course is held by a different teacher, but basically there are like 5 of them that teach through the whole M.Sc. program. Each of the professors has 2 subjects approx.

I was supposed to have my coursework finished by beginning of 2009, but I have only had 2 semesters so far. Each of them lasted for one year. That is - ridiculous. And then, a year break. Explanation : the professors are too busy with undergrads.

I was suppose to be done by now. I was supposed to have a degree in my pocket. But, they are not allowing me to take the coursework. Explanation: they are too busy.

My whole year of classmates are on the same boat. The difference : my IQ is higher then theirs, my strive is stronger then theirs. Basically, this is just a way for them to get a degree for their family to brag how great family-member they have....meaning, the degree is not something they are interested in very much in terms of academia or advancement. So, in the end, I have no support. Meanwhile, I applied for another MA, and I had it done in no time. I have a degree, I can go for a PhD if I want to, but the thing is that I started something and I really want to get it done!

And , yes, this professor is the only one that teaches Semester No.3.

How do I push this?

I seriously don't understand what you mean when you say "I have only had 2 semesters so far. Each of them lasted for one year".

Here is how it work at every university that I know of: A class is (usually) taught for one semester: you meet in a certain place at a certain time every week, you might have assignments or reading to do on a weekly basis, you might have to lead the discussion or give a presentation at some point during the semester; then you take an exam or write a paper (or some combination thereof) and you get a grade. Are you saying that you did everything you're required to do and the professors are just not giving you grades on time? Are you saying that not having grades makes it impossible for you to register for classes the following semester? Are professors not allowing you to take their class "just because" in a way that prevents you from fulfilling the program's requirements? Those are concrete complaints that can be easily handled by your student rep/student council/dean of students or whoever is in charge of that at your school.

It sounds very strange to me that a department can prevent whole cohorts from graduating on time (or at all) when they are paying full tuition; how has the situation been allowed to come to this? If it's as you're describing and you're paying for extra years because the department is actively not allowing you to meet the requirements it sounds like you have strong grounds for a lawsuit. Strange, as I said.

Edited September 20, 2010 by fuzzylogician

[matilda]

I seriously don't understand what you mean when you say "I have only had 2 semesters so far. Each of them lasted for one year".

Here is how it work at every university that I know of: A class is (usually) taught for one semester: you meet in a certain place at a certain time every week, you might have assignments or reading to do on a weekly basis, you might have to lead the discussion or give a presentation at some point during the semester; then you take an exam or write a paper (or some combination thereof) and you get a grade.

Done this.

Got grades.

Meaning, was taught for two semesters, and passed all of the exams. But, we had each semester taught for one calendar year. Instead of like the usual 3-6 months.

Are you saying that you did everything you're required to do and the professors are just not giving you grades on time?

I completed all of my tasks.

Are professors not allowing you to take their class "just because" in a way that prevents you from fulfilling the program's requirements?

This is the exact point. I want to pursue to do third semester, and they are not allowing me, because they are "too busy". And then, when you put it on paper - it looks like I have been doing taught courses for 3 and a half years. It makes me look like an imbecil. Or someone that took a break from school too often Which is really not the case. But, it would be very hard to explain...

Those are concrete complaints that can be easily handled by your student rep/student council/dean of students or whoever is in charge of that at your school. There is a problem : the Dean is basically the one that kicked me out after me trying to get to her for 4 months already. Why? She doesn't know what e-mail is. She is not answering her phone. The council of students don't care, because there are generations and generations that have been struggling with this attitude.

It sounds very strange to me that a department can prevent whole cohorts from graduating on time (or at all) when they are paying full tuition; how has the situation been allowed to come to this? THAT IS MY QUESTION TOO???

If it's as you're describing and you're paying for extra years because the department is actively not allowing you to meet the requirements it sounds like you have strong grounds for a lawsuit. Strange, as I said.

What should I do? Should I threat with a lawsuit?

Edited September 20, 2010 by matilda

[lewin]

No offence, my first suggestion is to calm down and get rid of the attitude. Your disdain for your professors and fellow students pervades each post and I'm sure they can sense it in person. If you were this hysterical and arrogant in the Dean's office then it's no wonder she kicked you out.

If I can interpret what you're saying, it's that your program was supposed to be 15 months but you've been there for three years due to bureaucratic delays. Why have you put up with this for so long? Does every student take three years to finish?

My suggestions are:

(1) Organize your fellow students (if you haven't already alienated them) and work up a group statement. Request that faculty meet with your group, then move up the hierarchy in sequence. The administration is more likely to respond to a collective concern. Consider going to the media.

(2) Failing that, get the heck out and find another program that is organized enough to graduate students in a timely fashion.

(By the way, it's spelled "imbecile", something you should know with your apparently stratospheric IQ and "strive".)

[fuzzylogician]

"we had each semester taught for one calendar year. Instead of like the usual 3-6 months."

meaning that your lazy professor who threw you out of her office not long ago decided on her initiative to teach her class for a year instead of a semester? this happened with all of your classes in the last two years so you could only take three classes instead of six in a year, but the credits are still for semester-classes and not for year-long classes? There's no one outside your department you could talk to about this? Sorry, I think I'm being dense but it's hard for me to understand how this happened why you're all putting up with it for so long.

Also, yes, I second everything lewin00 said above about your attitude. I'm sure it's detectable and doesn't make people want to go your way when you need their help.

Edited September 20, 2010 by fuzzylogician

[matilda]

No offence, my first suggestion is to calm down and get rid of the attitude. Your disdain for your professors and fellow students pervades each post and I'm sure they can sense it in person. If you were this hysterical and arrogant in the Dean's office then it's no wonder she kicked you out.

I am really pissed, because this is going on and on and on. And I just said hello, my name is XZ, I came to ask if we can talk about the classes from the third semester. And then - peep talk from her, and a final get out. I said one sentence. Just one.

If I can interpret what you're saying, it's that your program was supposed to be 15 months but you've been there for three years due to bureaucratic delays. Why have you put up with this for so long? Does every student take three years to finish?

Well, it is supposed to be 15 months + maximum two years for a student to defend his thesis. But, usually, when you get in a program, you do it in like .....20 months total, right?

But, on this faculty, it is normal for the professor to say "I am busy, come next year". And I cannot stand that attitude anymore. I have plans. I have a development plan. This is....horrible!

My suggestions are:

(1) Organize your fellow students (if you haven't already alienated them) and work up a group statement. Request that faculty meet with your group, then move up the hierarchy in sequence. The administration is more likely to respond to a collective concern. Consider going to the media.

(2) Failing that, get the heck out and find another program that is organized enough to graduate students in a timely fashion.

The problem is , I already payed for the tuition, which is like a pile of money. I work hard to earn it. We all do, right?

(By the way, it's spelled "imbecile", something you should know with your apparently stratospheric IQ and "strive".) - I come from the Balkans, sorry, English is not my mother tongue. I do my best:)

Edited September 20, 2010 by matilda

[matilda]

"we had each semester taught for one calendar year. Instead of like the usual 3-6 months."

meaning that your lazy professor who threw you out of her office not long ago decided on her initiative to teach her class for a year instead of a semester?

YES.

this happened with all of your classes in the last two years so you could only take three classes instead of six in a year, but the credits are still for semester-classes and not for year-long classes?

YES.

There's no one outside your department you could talk to about this? Sorry, I think I'm being dense but it's hard for me to understand how this happened why you're all putting up with it for so long.

The reason I am pissed at my classmates is that I feel as if they are scared to say THIS IS NOT RIGHT, like they are afraid of the revenge of the professor on the exam... Everyone has been raising their shoulders and saying, yeah, I know, let it go, it has been like that for years...you cannot change a thing.

Also, yes, I second everything lewin00 said above about your attitude. I'm sure it's detectable and doesn't make people want to go your way when you need their help.

Well, I am very calm. But, today....sorry, I am really pissed, and I know it shows, and I hate it that I feel this way, because the M.Sc. is my choice, my wish, my strive to work on myself, something that my heart and mind decided to do, something that I chose because of a great passion about the subjects offered, and....now? I feel ashamed that I cannot even explain it to my family, not to mention people that barely know me that I have been a student for three years and had only 6 courses so far, and my professors are "too busy" to teach the subjects they signed in for to teach???

I know that I look like have an attitude, but this today - really broke me down in pieces.

Edited September 20, 2010 by matilda

[matilda]

Just to add: I asked for my transcripts 5 months ago. They refused to give them to me. Explanation: I am the first person in the history of that Faculty that has been asking for something like that?!

I needed my transcripts for a scholarship.

I got them, eventually. After one month of practical begging.

Edited September 20, 2010 by matilda

[Genomic Repairman]

What kind of shit-hole program do you attend that takes a year-long break from teaching you guys? So we have already established that the dean is about as useful as a burlap sack rubbing on a hemorrhoid. Do you have a VP of student affairs or an ombudsman that you can talk to. The former are the ones that usually will stick up for you and the latter can act as a mediator or navigate you where to go next. And despite what someone said above, an MS degree should not take 3-4 years, more like 2-2.5 tops. At some point you have to give yourself a hard deadline of when you have suffered enough bullshit and you decide to cut bait and run. If there is no clear end to this, then you need to get out of there ASAP, you are wasting too much precious time and resources on these fools.

Email me if you need more advice.