Ok, how old is too old for a PHD, really ?

[Spiltteeth]

Yes, anyone can do it, I know a few elder persons who have...and there's antidiscriminatory laws...
 

But I'll be 48 when I get my Mdiv.
 

Who would go to bat, mentor, or give a full PHD scholarship to someone who isn't going to be in the feild that long?
 

Also, who would hire someone in their late 50's fresh out ?
 

In the real world.

[xypathos]

It's an uphill climb, but it's a climb for anyone. Age will be a factor, though they'll beat around the bush with their questions.

Also - it's field and school dependent. Your top schools rarely take anyone older than 30. Your state schools, like Indiana and Iowa, are much more flexible.

If you're thinking a PhD in a more "practical" field to church work like liturgy or homiletics, these students are often older. Maybe not late 50s from my anecdotal experience, but I've certainly seen mid-to-late 40s.

This is also another reason why three year European PhD/DPhil route is popular among older students. Funding is an issue then.

I think a former Episcopal bishop of Washington (maybe Oregon?) was 45 or so when he started a PhD in Theology at Notre Dame. Granted, he wasn't the bishop then.

[PhDApplicant23]

1 hour ago, Spiltteeth said:

Yes, anyone can do it, I know a few elder persons who have...and there's antidiscriminatory laws...
 

But I'll be 48 when I get my Mdiv.
 

Who would go to bat, mentor, or give a full PHD scholarship to someone who isn't going to be in the feild that long?
 

Also, who would hire someone in their late 50's fresh out ?
 

In the real world.

You actually have an advantage on the job market for the precise reason that you will "only be a problem" as a tenured faculty member for a shorter period of time than someone in their late 20's/early-30's

[Boolakanaka]

1 hour ago, Spiltteeth said:

Yes, anyone can do it, I know a few elder persons who have...and there's antidiscriminatory laws...
 

But I'll be 48 when I get my Mdiv.
 

Who would go to bat, mentor, or give a full PHD scholarship to someone who isn't going to be in the feild that long?
 

Also, who would hire someone in their late 50's fresh out ?
 

In the real world.

So, I have an appointment at a Divinity school and as well an attorney. One, there is no age limits for any PhD programs. I think this is some insinuation to this assumption, but I can tell you from both a faculty and/or legal level, if any comment were made, implicitly or explicitly, it can be actionable and result in real legal action against the school.

[Boolakanaka]

As a follow-up, if any school is receiving federal funds, thus most every school,  it must abide by the conditions of the Age Discrimination Act of 1975 and the D.C. Human Rights Act, which prohibits any kind of discrimination based on age.

[steadygaze108]

I know someone who’s 43 and was just accepted to a PhD at a top public school.

[sacklunch]

As everyone has said, it's illegal for them to discriminate. Will they? Yes. Will you be able to prove it? No. I have heard faculty straight up say they don't like taking old/er students (above around 30). This is at top schools, while I imagine lesser ranked schools, including most state programs, will be much different. Before anyone can really offer any input we need to know: a) what field/subfield you're in, b) which programs/schools are you interested in, and c) what you want to do after the PhD.

[steadygaze108]

You could also try get a PhD through alternative routes - like this PhD by Papers option: 

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=phd+by+papers+uk&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[Spiltteeth]

Well SackLunch, ideally I'd love to go to Marquette and study theology, their theology and society, and teach at some seminary, or even a community college...

[sacklunch]

18 hours ago, Spiltteeth said:

Well SackLunch, ideally I'd love to go to Marquette and study theology, their theology and society, and teach at some seminary, or even a community college...

In that case I think you might be able to swing getting into a program. Marquette is a really good program from what I've heard and is also not terribly competitive when compared against the big names. Note that jobs these days are almost nonexistent. Most of the recent PhDs I know from top schools cannot find permanent positions and have been on the market for 3+ years. But if you're open to teaching part time while doing something else I don't think it's entirely foolish to pursue the PhD. Normally I am opposed to the UK PhD option for Americans, since Americans with UK PhDs are generally looked down upon (usually because they paid for the PhD, admission is much easier, etc.); but in this case I don't think it's an awful option, assuming you don't have to take out loans. A better route would be something like Marquette, which would be funded and be seen as academically rigorous while also demonstrating you can work/teach in a theological tradition. The Jesuits are a really safe bet; secular and religious academics generally like their programs. So you might also look at BC, SLU, Regis, etc. 

[Teddy Bear]

On 3/20/2023 at 7:52 PM, sacklunch said:

As everyone has said, it's illegal for them to discriminate. Will they? Yes. Will you be able to prove it? No.

I have a disability and have first hand knowledge of this. I applied to a major public university last year and was refused a reasonable accommodation until I took the matter up to further authorities. This made me look as particularly litigious and so when it came around to the final interviews, the response was a "regret". I went back to the school to see if they could provide some sort of feedback to help with further applications (though I knew what had happened), the Dean of Admissions promised to get back to me soon with feedback. Still waiting months later.

The schools do discriminate and it's virtually impossible to prove.

[Teddy Bear]

On 3/15/2023 at 8:40 PM, Spiltteeth said:

Yes, anyone can do it, I know a few elder persons who have...and there's antidiscriminatory laws...
 

But I'll be 48 when I get my Mdiv.
 

Who would go to bat, mentor, or give a full PHD scholarship to someone who isn't going to be in the feild that long?
 

Also, who would hire someone in their late 50's fresh out ?
 

In the real world.

One thing you could do is start working part time in a ministry after you receive your MDiv and are in your PhD program. This might help you transition into a full-time position easier when you do graduate.

Beware though I've seen people in churches become very antagonistic toward PhDs. You're congregants with graduate degrees will often try to undermine you and colleagues become green-eyed.

[Teddy Bear]

On 3/15/2023 at 9:46 PM, xypathos said:

I think a former Episcopal bishop of Washington (maybe Oregon?) was 45 or so when he started a Ph.D. in Theology at Notre Dame. Granted, he wasn't the bishop then.

I know a Catholic Priest who got his 3rd doctorate at 55 and is very happy with parish pastoral work. He had a good 20 years to go before retirement age. He was a late vocation to the Priesthood and already had a secular Ph.D. before going to seminary. His diocese made him pay 50% of the cost of seminary (free for the youngsters but he had savings and investments from his first career and was going to be living a life of poverty after all). He was a 4.0 student there and well-liked by faculty that saw him successively get 2 Ph.D. full scholarships after his MDiv. He worked in the ministry part time while he completed his doctorates. He says he wouldn't have done it if he didn't have (1) guaranteed employment and (2) the full scholarships.