CUNY funding

[skeletonkeys]

Does anyone have any knowledge of CUNY Graduate Center's track record with funding, especially last year? Their website's info strikes me as ambiguous; they say students are eligible for some enhanced 18K fellowship but also that students without that support themselves through adjunct work. That's a S*%# load of teaching!

So, to reiterate, I'm wondering what the normal award is...if it's rare to get full funding I'm saving my 100$ application fee!

[diehtc0ke]

Does anyone have any knowledge of CUNY Graduate Center's track record with funding, especially last year? Their website's info strikes me as ambiguous; they say students are eligible for some enhanced 18K fellowship but also that students without that support themselves through adjunct work. That's a S*%# load of teaching!

So, to reiterate, I'm wondering what the normal award is...if it's rare to get full funding I'm saving my 100$ application fee!

So, I'm going to preface this post by saying that I love the CUNY Graduate Center and not only because I did my undergrad at a CUNY school and some of my favorite professors were grad students at the Grad Center at the time. I know we're in a recession and blahblahblah but even knowing what I knew about funding I still spent the $125 to apply last year and would have been willing to make it work had it been the only school to accept me (which now in hindsight I'm glad wasn't the case).

Their website's info is ambiguous because it seems like they're always ambiguous with their funding because it's not that great. From what I remember there were a number of those fellowships that you mention and that covered five years but there were plenty of teaching opportunities at CCs and often at some of the four year colleges. For those who did not receive a fellowship (and that was the case for me when I was accepted), there were teaching opportunities from day one but I think they paid something that was pretty much less than a livable wage in many places but especially in New York City (if you want exact numbers from what I got with my admissions packet I can PM you). I didn't ask how many fellowships were given out but while speaking with admitted students at the Open House, most seemed to have gotten one (that might just have been lucky though so take that with a grain of salt. Perhaps someone else has an actual number). That being said, though many of my grad student professors complained about the funding, they were able to work with some really wonderful people and with an exceptional group of graduate students so I'd take that into account as well. Even knowing what I know now, were I applying this year I'd still be sending an app there.

[medicine]

I recall being told last year that there were 22 fellowships available- so most students, but not all, received one. As I recall, the offer was for year 1 as an RA, years 2-4 as a teacher (either 2-1 or 2-2), and year 5 as some kind of writing guru administrator for 15 hrs a week.

I know that there were some students without fellowships who taught 4 classes a semester at different CUNY colleges, which is something I'd prefer not to do.

Edited November 17, 2010 by medicine

[skeletonkeys]

Thanks so much for the information! I hate to hear CUNY's funding is so lacking. I just don't know how I feel about lots of teaching from day one and possibly still not making ends meet.

Any other experiences with CUNY?

[skeletonkeys]

I recall being told last year that there were 22 fellowships available- so most students, but not all, received one. As I recall, the offer was for year 1 as an RA, years 2-4 as a teacher (either 2-1 or 2-2), and year 5 as some kind of writing guru administrator for 15 hrs a week.

I know that there were some students without fellowships who taught 4 classes a semester at different CUNY colleges, which is something I'd prefer not to do.

Thanks for chiming in, Medicine. I can't believe some students teach 4 classes a semester! As an adjunct after I got my MA I taught 3 a semester (writing intensive) and waited tables and thought I was going to die! I can't imagine teaching 4 and taking a full load of classes. The fellowship sounds OK...but I'm still a bit wary of teaching 2 classes a semester + grad classes, though perhaps I'm being snobby.

[anonacademic]

I can only speak from limited personal experience, but I had the same question, SkeletonKeys. CUNY's program looks fantastic, and the faculty are incredible. I was on the fence because of the location (I'm in a very, very rural location currently - NYC would be a huge shock to the system!) but willing to give it a shot.

However, my professors told me stories of their previous students who had to patch together adjunct work in order to survive at CUNY. The tough financial straits they were in, with or without the fellowship, ultimately detracted from their experience and even more worryingly, caused major setbacks in their degree process.

Also, the promise of $18,000 to live in NYC for nine months seemed laughable. That, plus the huge application fee (much more than any of my other schools) made me decide not to apply. If there are other programs that are a good fit, have a more reliable and substantial financial package, and are in a better location, then it just doesn't seem like a viable option.

Your mileage may vary; however, I decided CUNY was not worth it for me!

[skeletonkeys]

Chumlee: Thanks for sharing what your professors told you. I'm currently leaning towards not applying. I forgot it was CUNY that had the outrageous 125 app fee! I have only been to NYC once, and LOVED it, but I doubt I'd love it living on 18K (and that's if I'm lucky)! I'm also from a very rural area and the cost of living in big cities just astounds me. I could rent a house in my hometown for what it takes to rent a closet in NYC.

[shepardn7]

There is no way to really survive on $18K in NYC unless you suffer various inconveniences, like maybe living with several roommates in a very tiny apartment and/or living relatively far away from school. NYC MFA programs are the same way; they have good reputations and good faculty, but many students receive poor stipends or none at all; they bank on their rep and the allure of the city instead.

[hopefulwoolfian]

Forgive me if this is too off-topic, but as long as we're discussing funding at NY schools, anyone know anything about SUNY Stony Brook's funding record? They say that all admitted PhDs get funding, but don't seem to offer any numbers about stipends. Thanks!

[bigdgp]

Chumlee: Thanks for sharing what your professors told you. I'm currently leaning towards not applying. I forgot it was CUNY that had the outrageous 125 app fee! I have only been to NYC once, and LOVED it, but I doubt I'd love it living on 18K (and that's if I'm lucky)! I'm also from a very rural area and the cost of living in big cities just astounds me. I could rent a house in my hometown for what it takes to rent a closet in NYC.

Right after I finished my undergraduate degree at the University of Nebraska, I moved to NYC to teach high school English. In Nebraska, I rented with three friends a five bedroom house (yes, that's one empty bedroom) that had a washer, dryer and dishwasher on the premises for $200/month pp. I moved into a tiny 3 bedroom apartment with two roommates that was an hour subway ride from anywhere you would want to be with a gaping hole in the ceiling living above a drug dealer, no washer, dryer or dishwasher for $550/month pp., and that was five years ago! I am applying to schools in NYC after I finish my MA in England, but I am NOT applying to CUNY because of the funding situation.

Disclaimer: Any run-on and overly paratactic sentences are intentional and included for a very specific and deliberate effect.

Edited November 19, 2010 by bigdgp

[lifealive]

A friend of mine got into CUNY and didn't find out about funding until very, very late in the admissions process. Apparently they eventually come through for most people, but you really have to wait it out (and you don't want to accept until you have an offer in hand).

[JMA]

Forgive me if this is too off-topic, but as long as we're discussing funding at NY schools, anyone know anything about SUNY Stony Brook's funding record? They say that all admitted PhDs get funding, but don't seem to offer any numbers about stipends. Thanks!

stony brook gives something like 15/16k. the area is probably pretty highly priced to live in since it's on the eastern shore of suffolk county and there's a lot of money around there. stony brook does have some grad apartments though, and they're pretty nice, if you're willing to share (which i wouldn't be). i'm in an MA program now but your list is pretty similar to mine when i reapply to phd's next year-- tufts, maryland, stony brook. a word to the wise with temple: they admit without funding-- OFTEN. i got in last year to their phd and was advised when i asked that there was no money for me. they didn't even say they'd try. brandeis is also in pretty dire straits right now. i got 1/4 of an MA tuition stipend. (i'm not there, that's just what i was offered)

[samjones]

if you get the fellowship from cuny, living off of it is pretty manageable. i'm doing it; i'm living in brooklyn. it's also manageable to live in queens, harlem/upper manhattan, the bronx. i bike and cook my own food so some expenses that you may or may not have are cut out of my budget. i live with my partner who is also a student and we're making it work; it's not a huge struggle in my opinion. i'm definitely not living like some professionals but i'm not professional yet so i guess that makes sense!

the teaching experience you get is invaluable in the long run, by the way.

[skeletonkeys]

JMA, thanks for the info. I was also wondering about Stony Brook. Sadly, Brandeis is one of my top choices, and I was hoping they'd have better funding. I (we) sure picked one of the best years to apply financially speaking. Some of these programs would be great if only they guaranteed a living wage.

[hopefulwoolfian]

stony brook gives something like 15/16k. the area is probably pretty highly priced to live in since it's on the eastern shore of suffolk county and there's a lot of money around there. stony brook does have some grad apartments though, and they're pretty nice, if you're willing to share (which i wouldn't be). i'm in an MA program now but your list is pretty similar to mine when i reapply to phd's next year-- tufts, maryland, stony brook. a word to the wise with temple: they admit without funding-- OFTEN. i got in last year to their phd and was advised when i asked that there was no money for me. they didn't even say they'd try. brandeis is also in pretty dire straits right now. i got 1/4 of an MA tuition stipend. (i'm not there, that's just what i was offered)

Thank you so much for the info, JMA!

[ahlacruz]

Anyone happen to know if CUNY offers tuition remission for out-of-state PhD students? I think I read somewhere on the website that only in-state tuition is covered, which would make that humble stipend in NY even more difficult to live on.

[anonacademic]

Anyone happen to know if CUNY offers tuition remission for out-of-state PhD students? I think I read somewhere on the website that only in-state tuition is covered, which would make that humble stipend in NY even more difficult to live on.

You'll probably have to become a resident of New York immediately upon enrollment if you want a complete (in-state) tuition waiver. I think that's the normal practice, although I think I read that on the SUNY Buffalo website (the only transparent website out there!). So I really don't know - hopefully someone else with more information will pipe up

[Medievalmaniac]

Thanks for chiming in, Medicine. I can't believe some students teach 4 classes a semester! As an adjunct after I got my MA I taught 3 a semester (writing intensive) and waited tables and thought I was going to die! I can't imagine teaching 4 and taking a full load of classes. The fellowship sounds OK...but I'm still a bit wary of teaching 2 classes a semester + grad classes, though perhaps I'm being snobby.

Sorry- I'm just going to chime in here, because this is something that bothers me a lot about academia in general and about the thinking surrounding graduate work and professor's work specifically.

If you want it badly enough, you will make it work. If it means you have to teach four classes a term at two colleges twenty minutes away from one another on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays and then take graduate classes at night on Tuesdays and Thursdays, if what you really want is to get this PhD degree, then you will do it. If it means you have to teach every day and take class every night, or teach every night and take class every day, if what you want is the PhD, you will make it work. If you are doing what you love, then you are going to find a way to do it.

Ideally, you will get smart about it. Which means, you will align the classes you are teaching along the classes you are taking, so you can make your research and reading stretch across both responsibilities. You will test out theories, ideas, and the work you are doing in your doctoral courses on your students. You will write papers based on your teaching, and refine your teaching based on the feedback you get on those papers. Your research agenda will align with your teaching, and they will together support your work in the doctoral courses you are taking. The entire time, you are compiling a working, annotated bibliography of every source you use as a teacher and as a student, and ideally, you are working in both areas with an eye on what you envision as your doctoral dissertation. In the end, you are steps ahead in the work you have to do, AND you are so much better prepared to be a professor with teaching duties.

Example: Let's say I want to write my dissertation on the language of adultery in medieval Arthurian texts. Right - that means I know I am planning to be working in medieval romance, medieval chronicle, women's and gender studies, historiography, linguistics/language usage, and probably postcolonialism to some degree, Arthur being a post-Conquest figure. I may also need to work in dream vision, hagiography, and medieval alchemy. To be marketable, I'm probably going to need two other areas of interest, so I'm logically choosing Early Modern and 19th century, which have the most to do with Arthuriana. I am taking two doctoral courses this term: Early Modern excluding Shakespeare, and Nineteenth Century British Literature. I am teaching four classes at local community colleges - three sections of rhetoric and composition, and one section of British Literature I, through the 18th century.

Here's what I am going to do: for my seminar paper for the Early Modern class, I'm going to focus on Edmund Spenser's Faerie Queene (an Arthurian text) because that is going to enable me to work in Arthurian studies and to compile a bibliography of sources in that area. For my seminar paper in the 19th century Brit Lit course, I'm going to work in Romantic reconfigurations of the Arthurian tradition, because I can compile more modern resources still directly related to Arthuriana, and because they were so heavily influenced by Spenser that this will link my two courses as regards the reading and research I'm doing. My Brit Lit I class will include as many Arthurian pieces as I can manage - Chaucer's Wife of Bath tale, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Malory, Spenser, etc. because that will let me compile bibliography for medieval Arthurian, specifically, and for Spenser as well, which will lessen my load for the Early Modern doctoral course. My rhetoric and composition courses will be structured along department guidelines, but I will more than likely be allowed to choose the texts I'm working with. No-brainer: my students will be reading the same things I and/or my own students in Brit Lit I are reading - Sir Gawain, Chaucer, Spenser, Tennyson, etc. etc. Alternately, I am presenting my rhetoric and comp students with some literary theory in gender studies, women's studies, postcolonial studies - all of the theoretical frameworks I'm thinking of using in my dissertation. Teaching it helps me understand it so much more profoundly, and my students will clue me in as to how much explanation I should expect to have as regards my methodology in my dissertation by their response to my teaching. By the time I get to writing my dissertation, if I keep on in this fashion, even if my actual idea doesn't work out, I am totally poised to write a dissertation on some aspect of the Arthurian tradition, I am familiar and proficient in discussing and using the methodologies I might be employing, and a lot of the preliminary reading and research has already been done.

Bonus: You have also worked out a lot of the problems, concerns, and woes so many new teachers face their first few years in the classroom, so you are going in with professional experience teaching and a professional approach to it based on that experience.

If you handle it like this, the workload is still heavy, but far more serviceable to your ultimate aims and goals and far more manageable than it otherwise would be. And I cannot stress enough: if you want the PhD, you will do what it takes to get the PhD.

I completed my Master's degree with a 4.0, working full time at a year-round boarding school, teaching 6 courses a term, 5 terms a year. That's THIRTY PREPS (yes, each course is a different course). I am also the mother of two. I managed while doing this also to rack up a number of publications and to do a little acting on the local stage, so I didn't sacrifice my personal life to do it, either. I just teach what I study, study what I teach, and make everything do double-duty - and I WANT IT (the education and the degree) - end of story. I will do whatever it takes.

I hope this post either encourages or inspires some of you to reconfigure your thinking about the teaching - I have found that in many ways, it is a major aid to me as a scholar - students give me ideas, I have classes to bounce my ideas off of and elicit feedback for them, and bonus - I can check out THEIR bibliographies, in addition to my own!

Edited December 7, 2010 by Medievalmaniac

[medicine]

Anyone happen to know if CUNY offers tuition remission for out-of-state PhD students? I think I read somewhere on the website that only in-state tuition is covered, which would make that humble stipend in NY even more difficult to live on.

Yes.

Last year, their fellowship offer covered out of state tuition, if it was necessary.

[breakfast]

I am an out of state student at a SUNY school with funding. My tuition was covered the first year at the out of state level, but I had to establish residency right when I got here so I would be considered an in state student each year after. Every year after the first, the tuition remission only covers the amount an in state student would pay. If you don't establish residency, you have to pay the difference.

I assume CUNY would have the same sort of deal.