Getting in the first time around?

[cschwartz]

Is it fairly normal not to get into grad school on the first try in Alnthro? I am really hoping that this isn't the case, but I would rather know ahead of time so I can figure out what I am suppose to do for an extra year!

[anthropologygeek]

It is very common not to get in your time for grad school. More so for phd than masters though. Out of of undergrad, my experience is about 5% get into a masters program and then 5% of masters get into phd. More people are applying for the same number of spots.

[shaydlip]

Honestly, a LOT of it is about timing/luck.

I got in my first time around to my top two choices. I didn't get into my third choice, and found out later that the faculty member wasn't inclined to accept students that year (too many older students needed to graduate).

The place I'm attending now? Had I applied a year earlier or later, I'm not sure my advisor would have accepted me.

[modernity]

Be prepared not to get in... a lot of people apply to the wrong schools/programs/advisors for what they're doing and the schools know this, a lot of people overestimate their background/credentials, and then.... most importantly a lot of people just have bad luck... you could be applying in a year where everyone has a CV as good as yours, a great string of LORs, etc.

Your luck can change though. I was rejected across the board my first round, and accepted across the board my second.

Grad school is about having a lot of patience - that includes the application process!

[cschwartz]

Be prepared not to get in... a lot of people apply to the wrong schools/programs/advisors for what they're doing and the schools know this, a lot of people overestimate their background/credentials, and then.... most importantly a lot of people just have bad luck... you could be applying in a year where everyone has a CV as good as yours, a great string of LORs, etc.

Your luck can change though. I was rejected across the board my first round, and accepted across the board my second.

Grad school is about having a lot of patience - that includes the application process!

Yeah that is what I am a little nervous about. I worry that my professors will not want to write me another LOR if I can't get in this year...I don't want them to think that I must not be good enough to get in. But I just don't know how I can compete with people who have a perfect GPA and a great GRE score.

[riceandbeans]

Yeah that is what I am a little nervous about. I worry that my professors will not want to write me another LOR if I can't get in this year...I don't want them to think that I must not be good enough to get in. But I just don't know how I can compete with people who have a perfect GPA and a great GRE score.

Your professors know how hard it is to get in, even for people who are well-qualified. It took me two rounds of applications, and the response of my letter writers after the first round was "don't worry, a lot of people don't get in the first time, let me know when letters are due next year."

[modernity]

Your letter writers won't mind as long as you show them how you improved in the year off - when I asked for letters again I told them about the work experience I had gotten, the contacts, how I had improved my GRE, etc. and they were more than happy to write another set of letters and told me it was great that I was so determined and that I had spent time improving my background. I wouldn't worry about them thinking you aren't good enough, heck it could be cause they wrote a lackluster letter themselves! Just do your best this round before you worry about the next one! You might be one of the lucky ones who gets in right off the bat!

[anthropologygeek]

Cschwartz- Don't worry they won't think your a failure. My advisor was pissed off I got full rejections my first time but not at me. She couldn't understand why they rejected me. I'm glad I didn't get in. I actually applied to schools that weren't good fits. I got in on the second round to my first choice so sometimes things happen for a reason.

[clashingtime]

I know it'll be disappointing, but from what I've been told it's normal for a lot of folks to not get in when they first apply. If that is that case, I've been told to consider taking a GRE course and taking it again to get it as high as you possibly can, and get some experience in the line of work that you want to do. That way when you contact people again for another LOR, it won't seem like you've just wasted time for a year.

From what I've heard, a lot of it is timing and luck. You might have the right credentials, but you may not be a good fit, or the professors who suit your needs aren't taking on grad students. Best of luck to you!

[cschwartz]

Thank you everyone, I am just a stressed out mess right now. I will take the advice and not freak out if I don't get in this time around, and I will hopefully make some improvements on my stats and get in the next time!

[clashingtime]

cschwartz: I'm in the process of applying to grad schools too, so if you ever want to freak out feel free to PM me! I know my family and friends are probably reeeally sick of all of my spaz attacks!

[mutualist007]

I am fearing the same thing. My only really strong card is the most recent GPA of my anth degree, but even that is tainted by a lesser GPA from an unrelated first degree. Letters are good, and research mediocre to barely in.

I am considering a Masters only program at one of the many schools near home in the southeast. Perhaps working on a masters can build up my research portfolio, GPA history, and new graduate school references. It may add a year overall, but the plan might work as compensation, and it allows me more time to research a real good fit for a PhD program.

Consider a Masters first while building your research background and hopefully your thesis will be relevant to eventual dissertation. It will be easier for committees to make a case for you if you have proven that you can already cut-it in graduate level work.

Good luck!

[anthropologygeek]

A thesis does help because you can proof with your thesis that you are interested in a certain aspect and that your not just all talk to try and get in. I think proof of fit goes a long way

Edited November 23, 2010 by anthropologygeek

[modernity]

You can always apply to both PhD programs and MA programs. That way you don't feel like you're missing out if you think you could be good enough for a PhD, and you still have the possibility of an MA as a grounded backup plan (not that getting into an MA is by any means a guaranteed thing but chances can be better).

[Arianna]

I completely understand how you feel. I applied to 4 Anthro programs (it's my first time around as well) and now I'm playing the waiting game. Last night I even had dreams about it! My anxiety is at an all time high, but an all time low as well because I'm still proud of myself for even reaching the point of getting a B.A. I had absolutely no expectations for myself from the start... and then fast forward a couple of years and I finally gained the confidence that I needed to learn something about myself and submit applications, etc..

Stepping back from the process now, I'm happy with what I did, but at the same time I realize it's not the end of the world if I don't get in this year. If anything I've gotten stronger because of it. You have to say to yourself, what's the worst that could happen? I have to reapply next year? I think a lot of people on these forums can be incredibly uptight where they need to realize that life is about more than JUST school, or GREs, or GPAs. I just joined these forums today and already I've seen people bash themselves for having 3.5 GPA's and 1300 GRE scores, it can get ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, these programs and my future mean the world to me, but at what cost? I don't want to cut down any of my achievements and neither should you. Be proud of whatever happens, I know I will be. =)

[new mexico]

I completely understand how you feel. I applied to 4 Anthro programs (it's my first time around as well) and now I'm playing the waiting game. Last night I even had dreams about it! My anxiety is at an all time high, but an all time low as well because I'm still proud of myself for even reaching the point of getting a B.A. I had absolutely no expectations for myself from the start... and then fast forward a couple of years and I finally gained the confidence that I needed to learn something about myself and submit applications, etc..

Stepping back from the process now, I'm happy with what I did, but at the same time I realize it's not the end of the world if I don't get in this year. If anything I've gotten stronger because of it. You have to say to yourself, what's the worst that could happen? I have to reapply next year? I think a lot of people on these forums can be incredibly uptight where they need to realize that life is about more than JUST school, or GREs, or GPAs. I just joined these forums today and already I've seen people bash themselves for having 3.5 GPA's and 1300 GRE scores, it can get ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, these programs and my future mean the world to me, but at what cost? I don't want to cut down any of my achievements and neither should you. Be proud of whatever happens, I know I will be. =)

i agree that getting into graduate school or not does not define the essence of my being and purpose in life. with that being said, a 3.5 GPA and 1300 GRE is not that competitive at the "top" departments for non-minority and non-female prospective applicants and, thus, something one may need to worry about. there are many factors that play a key role in acceptance: GRE scores, GPA, faculty fit, SoP, etc. I have a 1400+, perfect GPA, great letters of rec, a killer SoP, and I was rejected by all 9 programs last year. Of course, I'm doing things differently this year when I apply, but i know that my lower verbal score killed my chances at a few schools (some faculty told me this after i was rejected). Whatever, I suppose.

Good luck to everyone.

[Arianna]

I'm not sure it's easy to pin point exactly why programs decide to say "no", but I'm shocked to hear that you didn't get accepted with those credentials. Still, I'm under the impression that a 3.5/4.0 and 1300/1600 is damn good. How can people be expected to be any more "perfect" than that? I know these programs can afford to get the "best of the best", but how far can it go? Then again, this is my first time around so what do I know..

i agree that getting into graduate school or not does not define the essence of my being and purpose in life. with that being said, a 3.5 GPA and 1300 GRE is not that competitive at the "top" departments for non-minority and non-female prospective applicants and, thus, something one may need to worry about. there are many factors that play a key role in acceptance: GRE scores, GPA, faculty fit, SoP, etc. I have a 1400+, perfect GPA, great letters of rec, a killer SoP, and I was rejected by all 9 programs last year. Of course, I'm doing things differently this year when I apply, but i know that my lower verbal score killed my chances at a few schools (some faculty told me this after i was rejected). Whatever, I suppose.

Good luck to everyone.

[Archaeo_Anon]

Unfortunately a lot of it comes down to timing and sheer dumb luck.

I was not admitted to any of the 7 schools I applied to during my first round of apps, and I had a 3.8+ GPA, 1500+ GRE score, strong LoRs, and a quite good SoP. This time around for Fall 2010 I was admitted to three programs, two at top schools, and one of those two within 24 hours of submitting my application materials (it was in the UK where they have rolling admissions, and I'd been in correspondence with the program director previously so he knew to expect my application and what my qualifications were). I did tweak my application a bit, including getting another LoR writer who could help target certain of my strengths better, but overall very little changed on my end between the first and second rounds.

What made the biggest difference for my second round of applications was that at one of the schools they had just launched a new MSc program that was a perfect fit for my research interests, which was relatively unknown, and which they were actively trying to recruit students for; at another of the schools (the one I eventually ended up attending) it was because the faculty member who became my advisor had reached a critical point in a certain research project (also a perfect fit for my research interests) which she wanted a dedicated grad student to work on. This new project hadn't been publicized until this year, so I would have had no way of knowing about it while putting together my applications, and because of the timing of it, if I had applied to this particular school the previous year, I might not have been admitted because I wouldn't have been needed as much as I was this year.

It's great that you have a strong application, but as in so many cases, at most top programs having strong numbers just qualifies you to be in the applicant pool. If you make that cut, the specific numbers are not so important. What makes them actively want to admit you is fit for the program, fit with faculty, and compatibility with their own ongoing research interests. Sure they want to take in the best of the best and give them a great education, but if they can afford to be selective (and most grad programs can be), they also want you to be a benefit to them, and to help them work on what they need to get done while in the process of acquiring that great education.

[mutualist007]

Does anyone advise against applying for PhD programs while in your first year of a Masters at a different school?

[anthropologygeek]

I take it you wouln't finish? This would be tough since your ask professors where your at or your current adviser for a rec which means you wouldn't be finishing. Also, you wouldn't have a completed masters thesis as your writing sample. This would greatly improve your chances. Do you have buyers remorse? Also, if you do ecide to apply will your classes transfer? Mind you if you are in a 1-year program why not apply.

[mutualist007]

I take it you wouln't finish? This would be tough since your ask professors where your at or your current adviser for a rec which means you wouldn't be finishing. Also, you wouldn't have a completed masters thesis as your writing sample. This would greatly improve your chances. Do you have buyers remorse? Also, if you do ecide to apply will your classes transfer? Mind you if you are in a 1-year program why not apply.

I'm not in yet, but it's hard knowing that a couple of my top picks will allow very little of the Masters to transfer. I have a bad "feeling" about this season. Therefore, I am planning to apply to some Masters programs at State Universities. I'm, actually excited about one program that is very close to home, but I have some concerns that have nothing to do with the overall program. The faculty research works perfectly for what I am trying to hybridize and accomplish. One of the professors researches economic anthropology, and the other professor is invested in bioarchaeology and political economy. My only issue is the added time and funding concerns. I'm also worried about receiving too much of my education in one state. Maybe that's a false concern.

I guess I'm mildly dismayed about my PhD chances this year, and a tad bit anxious and impatient for the yea or nay from all schools.

Edited January 24, 2011 by mutualist007

[samjones]

Does anyone advise against applying for PhD programs while in your first year of a Masters at a different school?

in order to feel comfortable asking current profs for recs, it would probably be a good idea to apply the year you would finish the program you're in. that is, unless you feel like you have the know how to explain to the profs at your current program that you have decided to get a little more committed to a graduate program in anth and want to start a phd program asap meaning that you would not finish their program and would move on for the new program. i bet if you can get on terms where you can explain and demonstrate that, there would be profs willing to support you! i think though that if you have funding for the MA program and it's only a two-year program, it might be worthwhile to finish the program and the corresponding projects for applications.

on the other hand, applying to programs without a completed MA is totally doable and there are plenty who are people who are successful.

[kateow]

It's a little brutal, but true that it also depends on what institution you got that 3.5/4 GPA from. Since my first time around, I have learned several important things (perhaps the most important was how to do a SOP), including the sad fact that your background matters. A lot. I am fairly certain that, without my MA from a significantly more prestigious institution, I may never have been accepted to a PhD program. The three strikes I had against me? 1) generic undergraduate institution, 2) didn't major in Anthropology in undergrad (though I did minor in Archaeology), and 3) imperfect academic record (I took some time off in the middle of my undergrad career). I think that these are three generalizable issues that many people face (I knew dozens of people with similar issues in my MA program).

That said, don't give up hope. It is 99% the luck of the draw, in the end.

I'm not sure it's easy to pin point exactly why programs decide to say "no", but I'm shocked to hear that you didn't get accepted with those credentials. Still, I'm under the impression that a 3.5/4.0 and 1300/1600 is damn good. How can people be expected to be any more "perfect" than that? I know these programs can afford to get the "best of the best", but how far can it go? Then again, this is my first time around so what do I know..

[mutualist007]

It's a little brutal, but true that it also depends on what institution you got that 3.5/4 GPA from. Since my first time around, I have learned several important things (perhaps the most important was how to do a SOP), including the sad fact that your background matters. A lot. I am fairly certain that, without my MA from a significantly more prestigious institution, I may never have been accepted to a PhD program. The three strikes I had against me? 1) generic undergraduate institution, 2) didn't major in Anthropology in undergrad (though I did minor in Archaeology), and 3) imperfect academic record (I took some time off in the middle of my undergrad career). I think that these are three generalizable issues that many people face (I knew dozens of people with similar issues in my MA program).

That said, don't give up hope. It is 99% the luck of the draw, in the end.

Thanks for sharing your information here. I just have a few questions in response, that might help those who wait sort this out.

1. By background, do you mean where we went for our undergraduate degrees? What sort of MA or MS program should we aim for to better ramp up for the top 2-3 tiers of PhD programs? Best to find out how to scale the ladder... or is it a precipice...

2. What did you learn about writing SOPs? I never knew if mine was specific enough or too specific.

All words of wisdom are appreciated.

[anthropologygeek]

Mutual- I don't know what they mean but its common in our field always to progress and not regress. You go to an undergrad school, go to at least slightly better masters and even slightly better phd. Mind you if you are at the high it's ok to be lateral just don't regress in the quality of the program. About SOP's I am confused by what they mean. All I know is everyone looks for different things. So just because one prof likes aka doesn't mean the next prof will like it. For SOP's I say do the best you can and move on. Once submitted don't look at it again.