Political Science - Fall 2011 Cycle

[wtncffts]

Good: got accepted to Iowa this morning.

Bad: at a visiting weekend and feeling an intense case of imposter syndrome over needing to take calc, linear algebra, econ math camp and ICPSR over the next three summers. I have to fall back on my 760 Q to believe I can get through this.

Congrats! With your great record of acceptances, can I just ask why you didn't reach 'higher', so to speak? I'm not trying to offend any of the schools you did apply to, but your being accepted to every single one suggests, to me, that you had an excellent chance at higher ranked schools.

[wannabee]

On 3/4/2011 at 5:34 PM, wtncffts said:

I know this was meant as a ray of hope for someone, but it's really a zero-sum game, no? The fact that you turned down Brown, increasing the chances of someone on that waitlist, is counterbalanced by the fact that, I presume, you're going to accept a position somewhere else, thus diminishing the chances of someone else being accepted from the waitlist at that school.

Yes, and no. Don't you have to look beyond the one school? I've been admitted to 4.5 programs (possibly 5.5 if I really luck out). If I accept one of those and turn down the rest (which is the goal I am working towards), won't someone hopefully get something out of that? If I had a decent math background, I could express this in quantifiable terms (sorry, I can't). Plus, some people have been admitted to a whole string of programs--many more than I have--and will be turning all those down shortly, except for one.

I can't attend the recruit weekends because I am in Egypt. We are scrambling to make up four weeks of "lost" classes. So I am going through his process of making a final decision several weeks earlier than most. I've already withdrawn an application from one program. If it's like last year, we'll see more posts like mine--people declining offers--at the end of March and early April, and other people getting into their waitlisted schools or being awarded funding. At least, I hope so.

For me, this whole process has been sobering. I got lucky but a lot of really good people didn't. Application numbers are crazy! I took some random notes through this process and jotted down the figures as to number of applicants...

Harvard 450

Stanford 375 or 700, depending on what post you go by

Berkeley 400+

Columbia 600

Cornell 350+

Brown 300+

Vanderbilt 200+

WashU 150+

UMinnesota 200+

British Columbia 200+

IllUrbana 130

From what The Realist told us, the admit committees are aware they are in "over their heads" in the sense that they are seeing many people who would make strong additions to their programs but not anywhere near enough slots. Too many people are getting crunched by these unreal numbers.

[gjason]

That all depends on what your focus is--I think FSU is good all the way around, but I'm particularly interested in the prospect of working with Jennifer Jerit, William Clagget, and Brad T. Gomez (there are a few others, too).

There are certainly pros (and some cons) to both programs. FSU is very strong all-around in methods, esp. formal theory, and IR. Dr. Moore has completed some great work on conflict studies and the xs/fs lab is a great resource. MSU is strong in my particular area of study, the resource curse. Mohammed Ayoob and Ravi Bhavnani have both done research on the resource curse in SS Africa, which aligns closely with my proposed dissertation. I am pretty much 50-50 heading into the campus visits.

[gjason]

You want to study resources, right? Who do they have at FSU? I know MSU has some good people.

MSU has Ayoob and Bhavnani for the resource curse, although someone told me that Bhavnani might be leaving. (An unconfirmed statement, but from a reliable source. Definitely something to inquire about at the campus visit.) FSU doesn't really have anyone that has published on the resource curse; however, the department at FSU has several strong formal theory methodologists and democratization scholars.

[gjason]

Congrats on the Iowa acceptance. Sorry about the tougher decision, though.

I went to ICPSR this past summer. Took matrix algebra with a couple of Iowa PhD students. You will get through it okay.

Good: got accepted to Iowa this morning.

Bad: at a visiting weekend and feeling an intense case of imposter syndrome over needing to take calc, linear algebra, econ math camp and ICPSR over the next three summers. I have to fall back on my 760 Q to believe I can get through this.

[Purled]

Withdrawing from UWashington (theory), making room for those waitlisted.

[ladedodaday]

For what it's worth, Princeton received around 640 applications this year. Surprisingly, the consensus is that applications are down from last year.

[mormegil]

I expected so. The bet is they will be down even more next year. My advisor wanted me to apply for Fall '12 when competition will be a bit easier than this year.

[slacktivist]

Congrats! With your great record of acceptances, can I just ask why you didn't reach 'higher', so to speak? I'm not trying to offend any of the schools you did apply to, but your being accepted to every single one suggests, to me, that you had an excellent chance at higher ranked schools.

Thank you. When top schools were due in December, I did not have a good research paper that served as a writing sample. I finished it in mid-January and only applied to schools due between Jan. 1 and Feb. 1. Also, I have a bit of an unorthodox profile. To give you my background:

I am coming directly from undergrad in the California State University system after attending three previous schools. I began by attending community college and transferred to another CSU, but had personal problems and dropped out after a semester, basically failing a full-time course load of upper division political science classes. Overall, I have a 3.3 GPA, 3.0 in the major. I had a C in Intro to Stats, which represents my most advanced math coursework, other than the intro to quantitative methods requirement in my major. My academic transcript is certainly not that of the modal applicant. However, I think it helps that I have done my work in grad school - about 60 semester units - entirely in night classes while working a full-time job in the day.

On the other hand, I did very well on the GRE (760 V/740 Q) and have a conference paper I'm presenting this spring. I've audited intro to econometrics and taken graduate seminars this year. My paper uses fairly advanced methods for an undergraduate (recent variations on ecological inference and spatial econometric analysis) to examine voting behavior by racial group and how that diffuses across space. It greatly focused my SOP and I assume I had strong letters of recommendation, though I can't know that for sure.

Edited March 5, 2011 by slacktivist

[Poppet]

I expected so. The bet is they will be down even more next year. My advisor wanted me to apply for Fall '12 when competition will be a bit easier than this year.

Why does the consensus seem to be that competition was easier this year and will be even easier next year? I thought we were still right in the middle of increased numbers of applicants. Enlighten me?

[wannabee]

Why does the consensus seem to be that competition was easier this year and will be even easier next year? I thought we were still right in the middle of increased numbers of applicants. Enlighten me?

I am curious about this too. I scanned the acceptance thread from last year but there were so few numbers listed that it's impossible to do any real comparisons. Still, the very few listed represent a slightly downward trend..

U minn 250 (2010) 200+ (2011)

GWU 450 (2010) 350 (2011)

Cornell 450 (2010) 393 (2011)

What is intriguing is that Cornell's rejection letter, despite the lower numbers this year, indicated that it was the "most competitive" pool they have ever had. I suppose they could just be trying to make people feel good, or it could be an honest statement that the quality of the pool is going up. This would make admissions tougher even without higher numbers. After all, if people end up applying two or three years in a row (which seems common now), I assume they are doing something to improve their credentials in that interim time. And others intentionally don't apply straight out of undergrad, because they know how competitive things are and want to improve their credentials first. That was definitely my situation. I decided to do an area studies or language program to strengthen my application in comparative.

There were also several schools that indicated the number of students admitted was lower and/or that less funding would be available. All of these referred to increasing budget constraints. Not surprising, they were state schools. Given what is going on politically in various states, perhaps we can expect to see even more of this lowering of admit numbers or funding next year? Just a guess.

Another possible complication is basic demographics. When does the last "bump" of the children of baby boomers kick through the system?

I also wonder about federal funding. I've seen mention that there is a large cut proposed for Critical Language Scholarships, which is a summer program. Perhaps there will be similar cuts in Foreign Language and Area Studies Fellowships, which could also affect some comparative people. So while the sheer number of applicants plays the largest role in this process, I think we need to keep other factors in mind as well.

Edited March 5, 2011 by wannabee

[yinumzhou`]

Do you think Iowa is done? It's my last hope.

[slacktivist]

Do you think Iowa is done? It's my last hope.

I don't know. Their email to me said they are trying to figure out how many first-year students they can fund, which will take a few weeks.

[firefly28]

I am curious about this too. I scanned the acceptance thread from last year but there were so few numbers listed that it's impossible to do any real comparisons. Still, the very few listed represent a slightly downward trend..

U minn 250 (2010) 200+ (2011)

GWU 450 (2010) 350 (2011)

Cornell 450 (2010) 393 (2011)

What is intriguing is that Cornell's rejection letter, despite the lower numbers this year, indicated that it was the "most competitive" pool they have ever had. I suppose they could just be trying to make people feel good, or it could be an honest statement that the quality of the pool is going up. This would make admissions tougher even without higher numbers. After all, if people end up applying two or three years in a row (which seems common now), I assume they are doing something to improve their credentials in that interim time. And others intentionally don't apply straight out of undergrad, because they know how competitive things are and want to improve their credentials first. That was definitely my situation. I decided to do an area studies or language program to strengthen my application in comparative.

There were also several schools that indicated the number of students admitted was lower and/or that less funding would be available. All of these referred to increasing budget constraints. Not surprising, they were state schools. Given what is going on politically in various states, perhaps we can expect to see even more of this lowering of admit numbers or funding next year? Just a guess.

Another possible complication is basic demographics. When does the last "bump" of the children of baby boomers kick through the system?

I also wonder about federal funding. I've seen mention that there is a large cut proposed for Critical Language Scholarships, which is a summer program. Perhaps there will be similar cuts in Foreign Language and Area Studies Fellowships, which could also affect some comparative people. So while the sheer number of applicants plays the largest role in this process, I think we need to keep other factors in mind as well.

It makes sense for two reasons:

1) More and more people are getting bachelors degrees, meaning that the degree is worth less than it used to be and more people are naturally inclined to seek a graduate degree.

2) The economy still sucks and has sucked during the entire app window. Gallup's numbers are different (and more pessimistic) than the BLS, and I'm inclined to believe them: 10.8% unemployment, and 19% underemployment. This also is going to increase the number of applications.

If it wasn't for the fact that I'm already 25 (26 in June), I might have even considered waiting another year to apply just because I would've likely gotten in at several schools that I ultimately didn't apply for. But I'm an old man. And anyway I'm happy with the schools that accepted me.

[slacktivist]

To correct an error in my longer post above:

However, I think it helps that I have done my undergraduate coursework in grad school - about 60 semester units - entirely in night classes while working a full-time job in the day.

[history?]

It makes sense for two reasons:

1) More and more people are getting bachelors degrees, meaning that the degree is worth less than it used to be and more people are naturally inclined to seek a graduate degree.

2) The economy still sucks and has sucked during the entire app window. Gallup's numbers are different (and more pessimistic) than the BLS, and I'm inclined to believe them: 10.8% unemployment, and 19% underemployment. This also is going to increase the number of applications.

If it wasn't for the fact that I'm already 25 (26 in June), I might have even considered waiting another year to apply just because I would've likely gotten in at several schools that I ultimately didn't apply for. But I'm an old man. And anyway I'm happy with the schools that accepted me.

Hey, now, some of us greyhairs are clocking in at 33. It's never too late.

[wtncffts]

I wasn't expecting such a detailed reply, but it's appreciated. This is the opposite advice from what I've mostly said on these forums, but I would consider applying again next year to higher ranked schools or trying to transfer at some point. I guess it depends on what your future plans are, but, unfortunately, you're likely going to be limited in your job prospects with a PhD from those universities (again, not trying to insult them). Obviously, I don't know you, but the paper sounds impressive, the GRE is quite good, and I'm sure you would have a reasonably good shot at a highly-ranked school. Just my .02, take it as you like.

Thank you. When top schools were due in December, I did not have a good research paper that served as a writing sample. I finished it in mid-January and only applied to schools due between Jan. 1 and Feb. 1. Also, I have a bit of an unorthodox profile. To give you my background:

I am coming directly from undergrad in the California State University system after attending three previous schools. I began by attending community college and transferred to another CSU, but had personal problems and dropped out after a semester, basically failing a full-time course load of upper division political science classes. Overall, I have a 3.3 GPA, 3.0 in the major. I had a C in Intro to Stats, which represents my most advanced math coursework, other than the intro to quantitative methods requirement in my major. My academic transcript is certainly not that of the modal applicant. However, I think it helps that I have done my work in grad school - about 60 semester units - entirely in night classes while working a full-time job in the day.

On the other hand, I did very well on the GRE (760 V/740 Q) and have a conference paper I'm presenting this spring. I've audited intro to econometrics and taken graduate seminars this year. My paper uses fairly advanced methods for an undergraduate (recent variations on ecological inference and spatial econometric analysis) to examine voting behavior by racial group and how that diffuses across space. It greatly focused my SOP and I assume I had strong letters of recommendation, though I can't know that for sure.

[slacktivist]

I wasn't expecting such a detailed reply, but it's appreciated. This is the opposite advice from what I've mostly said on these forums, but I would consider applying again next year to higher ranked schools or trying to transfer at some point. I guess it depends on what your future plans are, but, unfortunately, you're likely going to be limited in your job prospects with a PhD from those universities (again, not trying to insult them). Obviously, I don't know you, but the paper sounds impressive, the GRE is quite good, and I'm sure you would have a reasonably good shot at a highly-ranked school. Just my .02, take it as you like.

I appreciate the response. However, I'm quite happy with the offers I have received. With respect to placement, I would argue quite the opposite: Maryland, Rice, Irvine and Iowa have quite a few lateral placements, and I'm not dead set on the idea of "R1 or bust." I would be perfectly happy at an R1, LAC, or terminal MA institution. Also, the location of Maryland and especially Irvine facilitate the building of a broad professional network, considering the schools in the area (the DC and Northern Virginia universities; the area UCs, USC and other private teaching universities, respectively). I'd love to hear from the professors (Penelope Higgins, The Realist, Charlie2010) who frequent this board, but I feel very good about my future prospects.

[The Lorax]

I second Slaktivist's thoughts on the matter of job prospects. I guess I'm kind of going through a similar inner conversation, and may be trying to make myself feel better, but if placement records are what we have to go by in terms of job prospects at the other end, places like Irvine and Maryland are great options. Especially if you pair it with a kick ass publishing record and a cutting edge research agenda.

[wtncffts]

I appreciate the response. However, I'm quite happy with the offers I have received. With respect to placement, I would argue quite the opposite: Maryland, Rice, Irvine and Iowa have quite a few lateral placements, and I'm not dead set on the idea of "R1 or bust." I would be perfectly happy at an R1, LAC, or terminal MA institution. Also, the location of Maryland and especially Irvine facilitate the building of a broad professional network, considering the schools in the area (the DC and Northern Virginia universities; the area UCs, USC and other private teaching universities, respectively). I'd love to hear from the professors (Penelope Higgins, The Realist, Charlie2010) who frequent this board, but I feel very good about my future prospects.

OK, that's great. I didn't want to discourage you or make you feel bad about your offers. If you're happy, all the best to you.

[GopherGrad]

Hey, now, some of us greyhairs are clocking in at 33. It's never too late.

Ha-ha. I thought I was ancient at 30. What did you do back in the Golden Century?

[slacktivist]

Ha-ha. I thought I was ancient at 30. What did you do back in the Golden Century?

Good times. Now I don't feel so bad about coming directly from undergrad at 28.

[HandsomeNerd]

^ same. turn 28 this summer though xD

[GopherGrad]

I went to law school as a wet-eared 22 year old and treated it like college. I mean, I worked really hard, but it was sporadic.

I remember that what time I showed up at the library depended on how much work I had, but however early I got in, this one student was there before me. When finals came, I was hitting the books until all hours, but he was rarely there late. I asked him once about his study habits and he said:

"I get here at eight every day and leave at five. If I run out of reading, I re-read, I read ahead, I read supplements. If five o'clock comes and I have more to do, I ask myself if the extra work is worth an hour not seeing my wife, my kids or taking the time I can with my parents or friends. If it's not, I leave. This is just a job. You do it right, but it's the means."

He finished near the top of the class and disappeared into a middle-sized firm that paid him like crazy and let him take family vacations. Man had developed priorities that I totally did not get. I'm still not sure I do, exactly. But I do know that working has changed my attitude toward education.

Experience has something to say for it. I often feel behind when I think about finishing eight years from now ... almost 40. But I've stood up in court and made arguments that the judge should take someone else's children away. I've argued to free people I knew should be in jail. I celebrated marriages and births with friends and cried with them during divorce and miscarriage and been through a lot of it for myself. It would be insane to think that won't add to my experience studying again.

Everyone takes their own path, but they mostly lead to similar places. Your career, your whole life, eventually gets put into perspective. This is not to take away from you young gunners that got your shit together and hit the Ph.D road at 22 (you'll find your own ways to grow, obviously), but I'm glad to be embarking on a new phase with a little bit of history to fall back on. There are some things you can't learn until you're older; going back to school later is a trade-off, not a loss.

[Tufnel]

WashU received an increase in applications this year.

 

They went from 120+ to 150+ applications. That's roughly a 25 percent increase in applications.