Grades in Graduate School

[psycholinguist]

Anyone else from a North American school that uses a different scale?

Heh. I hear the University of Ottawa uses a 10-point scale, and Carleton University a 12-point one. Go figure.

But most transcripts should come with a backside or extra piece of paper explaining the school's scale (and maybe grading policies), shouldn't they? At my undergrad school an A+ was 4.3; but yeah, 4.0 is tops at a lot of places, especially in the U.S.

[alexis]

So just my experience with the grades thing...(as others said, probably very program and discipline specific)

In my master's program, it mattered; I wasn't going to get into a good PhD program without top grades. However, now that I'm in the PhD program, I care the least amount about grades than I ever have before.

We have to keep a 3.0, so my motto is "B to a PhD." So far I've gotten A or A- in my classes, but I wouldn't stress too much over a B. While some others in my cohort *Freak Out* about grades & classes, it's not my focus. What's going to get me a job is my research and the number of good publications I have, not that I had a 3.5 versus a 4.0 in my PhD program. So while I care about classes, they are 2nd priority, and as long as I don't start bombing things, I'm really just not that worried. Plus our professors seem to go relatively easy on us; while classes are hard, if you put in the effort & do decently, we usually get at least a B or B+. Grade inflation is alive and well at the graduate level, I suppose.

[abacus123]

So just my experience with the grades thing...(as others said, probably very program and discipline specific)

In my master's program, it mattered; I wasn't going to get into a good PhD program without top grades. However, now that I'm in the PhD program, I care the least amount about grades than I ever have before.

We have to keep a 3.0, so my motto is "B to a PhD." So far I've gotten A or A- in my classes, but I wouldn't stress too much over a B. While some others in my cohort *Freak Out* about grades & classes, it's not my focus. What's going to get me a job is my research and the number of good publications I have, not that I had a 3.5 versus a 4.0 in my PhD program. So while I care about classes, they are 2nd priority, and as long as I don't start bombing things, I'm really just not that worried. Plus our professors seem to go relatively easy on us; while classes are hard, if you put in the effort & do decently, we usually get at least a B or B+. Grade inflation is alive and well at the graduate level, I suppose.

The standard is similar in my grad program - 3.0 is the minimum average. Theoretically, one could get a grade in a class lower than a B, and they would be okay as long as their semester average is still above 3.0. The highest score we can achieve is an A, so if you have a 4.0 here you're doing very, very well for yourself. The average is around 3.5, if I had to guess.

I think grading is more up to the whims of the faculty teaching a certain course. For example, I had three courses last semester, which I'll call A, B and C.

- A's professor gave a difficult midterm, but a couple of the older grads passed down collections of his old midterms - it turned out he liked to reuse questions a lot. So those of us who used those as a study aid pulled A's, and those that didn't...didn't. He then cancelled his final, so our grades were basically the midterm and homeworks (which most people did well on). The average grade in the class was probably A-/B+.

- B's professor also liked tricky exams, but he was very lenient on the grading. If you got a "9/10", you really were towards the bottom of the class. the average was likely an A.

-C's professor was a nice guy, and his (complex) exam questions were based closely off of his homework. He liked stats, so we always had the full rundown. The average on his homeworks was around an A, and his three exams averaged a B. In the end, in a class of 12, there were 5 A's, 6 B's and 1 C. I don't know who the C was, but I hope they were able to balance it out.

So yeah, some professors are lenient, some have the potential to be lenient, and others are just flat-out difficult. It varies by person.

[waddle]

Anyone else from a North American school that uses a different scale?

My school uses a standard A = 4.0 (A+ doesn't exist) scale. But I do know that some schools have a 4.33 scale (i.e. A+ = 4.33), and I believe MIT uses a 5.0 scale.

[Bumblebee]

My school also uses a 4 point system, in which A and A+ is 4.0, A- is 3.7, B+ is 3.3 and so on. In my case grades are somehow important, because in order to keep getting my financial aid I need to maintain a certain GPA (I cannot be below 3.0 in my GPA).

[Thales]

Thanks again to the new posters for their replies.

I'm not really concerned with the "importance" of grades, per se. I'm more concerned with how grades in graduate school reflect one's relative standing. It matters to me how a 4.0 reflects my position among my peers, not least because I will be competing with many of these people for PhD spots soon.

Also, it would be hard to justify how a 4.0 would be reflective of poor performance. Obviously, that cannot be the case if it is the top grade. However, it would be useful to know, say, that an A- (3.7) or B+ (3.3) reflects poor, average, or above average performance.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Thales

[Gelpfrat the Bold]

In my MA program, those who talked the most about how well they were doing were those who ultimately wound up with mediocre (but still decent) grades. There were also the few who were obviously struggling to satisfy the program requirements. Those who rarely, if ever, talked about their marks generally seemed to be the ones with the best paper topics hidden up their sleeves, possibly because they were taking the challenge very seriously and working very hard and fearfully instead of assuming everything would be fine. I vainly like to include myself in that group. I got the impression that talking about how well one was doing was simply a cry for attention, and a sign that the person was looking for fellow students to confirm his or her sense of self-worth and intelligence. It became increasingly apparent to me how sensitive grad students are and how much competition, even unstated, can affect people. For this reason I found it best not to share grades with people except for my closest friends.

[Kathiza]

That's so interesting. I'm an international student and I've heard before that in the US they expect you to mainly get As and Bs. Where I come from, it's absolutely NOT the norm to get As. We have a grade-scale from 1 to 5 (1 being like A). And a student only gets 1 (A) if he really really is a lot better than the average. The average is 3 © - which is not bad at all. There are hardly any people who have a GPA of 1.0 (which means all As) - it's really REALLY outstanding if you have one. A GPA of 2.5 (between B and C) would still be considered as good.

[Eigen]

That's so interesting. I'm an international student and I've heard before that in the US they expect you to mainly get As and Bs. Where I come from, it's absolutely NOT the norm to get As. We have a grade-scale from 1 to 5 (1 being like A). And a student only gets 1 (A) if he really really is a lot better than the average. The average is 3 © - which is not bad at all. There are hardly any people who have a GPA of 1.0 (which means all As) - it's really REALLY outstanding if you have one. A GPA of 2.5 (between B and C) would still be considered as good.

Are you talking about undergraduate, or graduate?

Out of our 17,000 student university, only about 10-15 people would graduate with 4.0s... They are quite rare for undergraduates in most of the US. And most classes I took were graded to a Gaussian distribution centered on C.

Graduate school tends to be much different.

[Kathiza]

I'm talking about graduate and undergraduate. It's the same for both. I think this does not mean that students in one country are "better" or more "intelligent" than others. It's just different views on grading.

I've also studied in France where 20/20 is the best you can get. But NOBODY (I'm serious!) gets 20/20. They say one has to be PERFECT to get 20/20 and students can in no case be perfect. So if you deliver a flawless work, you would get 18/20 or 19/20 if you're very lucky. More is simply not possible.

[waddle]

I'm talking about graduate and undergraduate. It's the same for both. I think this does not mean that students in one country are "better" or more "intelligent" than others. It's just different views on grading.

I've also studied in France where 20/20 is the best you can get. But NOBODY (I'm serious!) gets 20/20. They say one has to be PERFECT to get 20/20 and students can in no case be perfect. So if you deliver a flawless work, you would get 18/20 or 19/20 if you're very lucky. More is simply not possible.

It's the Lake Wobegon effect ... i.e. "all the children are above average". We've had a debate over grading at my university, and it was argued that our current grading scale (where the definition of a "C" is "average performance") does not reflect reality. Grades in most classes here are generally centered around a B-, not a C (though some professors do curve based on a Gaussian distribution around C), so the definition of a C as average is self-contradictory. There's been a movement here to change the definition of a C to something like "attained learning outcomes". To my knowledge, nothing came out of this, but there's bureaucracy for ya.

Edited January 29, 2011 by waddle

[PizzaMan]

Thought I would come in here with my experience. First I am typing on my phone so forgive any tips...blame the intuitive text.

So, i am finishing up my Masters of Accounting program (in the US) and can say they do not simply hand out A's and B's. However everyone tries really hard so the grades are high. I would say the average is a 3.25 out of 4.

Now, I did start off in an MBA program and A's and B's were handed out. I mean we graded our own final one class. I quickly realized I needed a harder challenge. So, it depends on the university, the program and tge teacher. With that said, entrance into a doctoral program or masters program is not only dependant on your GPA. In fact, after speaking to admission board members, they consider what grades you obtained for what classes (advanced accounting versus business writing) the reputation of the school, the reputation of the program, extra activities, etc.

Plus they want to know you are a good researcher. Grades are fine, but that its not what is important in a doctoral program. Being able to research and think outside the box. As research is the career most doctoral graduates go into. So even if your GPA is not all that great but you are a smart individual who should have a high GRE or GMAT, with a little extra on your resume you should be considered for at least one school.

[TransnationalHistory]

Out of our 17,000 student university, only about 10-15 people would graduate with 4.0s... They are quite rare for undergraduates in most of the US. And most classes I took were graded to a Gaussian distribution centered on C.

Graduate school tends to be much different.

That might be true for sciences, but not at all for humanities. There is massive grade inflation in undergrad in America, and at top schools it's not that hard to get an A/A- in the humanities. The only B's I got were in languages/science, and while that's in part because I worked hard, there were definitely some classes Freshman year where in my opinion I didn't deserve the A.

[Thales]

I envy those of you who attending institutions that were a bit... shall we say, "loose" with grading.

I had to work hard as hell for As at my undergraduate alma mater (course averages are C- to C+). This is part of the reason for my curiosity about graduate grading.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Thales

[Eigen]

That might be true for sciences, but not at all for humanities. There is massive grade inflation in undergrad in America, and at top schools it's not that hard to get an A/A- in the humanities. The only B's I got were in languages/science, and while that's in part because I worked hard, there were definitely some classes Freshman year where in my opinion I didn't deserve the A.

But I'm talking about across all majors. Sure, of those 15 only two were in the sciences... But the point still stands- a 4.0 is quite hard to get.