New Public Affairs Rankings (The Next Round) ??

[bness2002]

I know the rankings really don't mean anything.

But I was just curious if anyone knows when the new rankings of the public affairs programs will be coming out?

Thanks.

[ZeChocMoose]

I know the rankings really don't mean anything.

But I was just curious if anyone knows when the new rankings of the public affairs programs will be coming out?

Thanks.

The US News and World Report rankings, do you mean? The grad school rankings typically get released in the Spring. Last year it was mid April.

Not sure if they will rank Public Affairs in 2011 though or not...

Edited January 23, 2011 by ZeChocMoose

[underthegun31]

The new Public Affair Rankings will be published in 2012.

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/college-rankings-blog/2012/02/15/best-graduate-schools-rankings-launch-march-13

[MartianQ]

That's wonderful news. Perfect timing.

[goldenbear26]

They're up.

I couldn't care less about these us news rankings, but I am happy to see that berkeley snatched the top spot for public policy analysis from harvard this time around. go bears!

[Burnt Orange]

What garbage! USN&WR has cleary lost any grip on reality it had left. Garbage!

[BendRnBender]

I suspect that those of you who will trash these new rankings are a little upset that the program(s) that you are considering are not as highly ranked as you would like.

Like it or not, the US News public affairs rankings are reputation based.Those of us who are active researchers in this field know what programs are good and what they are good at. We know who attracts the best students, produces the best students, and has faculty that are publishing in the major journals.

[state_school'12]

I suspect that those of you (us) that will trash the rankings will do so for the same reason you (we) trashed the last version: the rankings are rubbish. I mean, who the hell's heard of the University of Kansas SPIA (#9)? Which is apparently ranked above Duke, Michigan, Georgetown, Berkeley, Chicago, etc., etc. So, as hard as it is, continue to (almost entirely) ignore the rankings.

[BendRnBender]

^ LULZ don't be silly undegrad. Everyone knows that the Stene program at Kansas is one of the oldest and most respected MPA programs in the country. They have a heavy focus on city managment, but have several first-rate scholars that you would do well to read. See H. George Frederickson, Steven Maynard-Moody et al.

[MYRNIST]

Like it or not, the US News public affairs rankings are reputation based.Those of us who are active researchers in this field know what programs are good and what they are good at. We know who attracts the best students, produces the best students, and has faculty that are publishing in the major journals.

Everyone knows that the Stene program at Kansas is one of the oldest and most respected MPA programs in the country.

You would do well to drop the "insider", "those of us in the know" routine. You clearly work in academia, and perhaps in the ivory tower, USNWR rankings actually correspond with general reputation. But among DC professionals (at least in my experience), equating Kansas or Indiana or whatever with WWS, HKS, etc. will get you laughed at. A school's reputation in the academic tribe =/= reputation in the working world.

The fact that you included "faculty that are publishing in the major journals" as a major criterion of school quality is telling. I personally don't give 2 hoots whether, say, Madeleine Albright or Paul Pillar get published in the major academic journals, since their professional accomplishments speak for themselves.

That viewpoint isn't inherently any better or worse than yours, but I am quite sure it is one more commonly held on this forum, and among people who actually practice public policy. And by that perspective USNWR rankings are laughable - find me multiple Cabinet members, World Bank execs, think tank heads, etc. who went to Kansas or Indiana, and then I'll start believing they are ranked correctly.

Edited March 13, 2012 by MYRNIST

[piquant777]

I suspect that those of you who will trash these new rankings are a little upset that the program(s) that you are considering are not as highly ranked as you would like.

That seems like an ironic reply, as USMA didn't even apply to Harvard and got into Indiana. Oh well.

USNews rankings seem to be widely used for law and business school, as well as undergrad. I don't know why their Public Affairs rankings are so off...agreed that no one seems to take that particular ranking seriously.

[method]

That seems like an ironic reply, as USMA didn't even apply to Harvard and got into Indiana. Oh well.

USNews rankings seem to be widely used for law and business school, as well as undergrad. I don't know why their Public Affairs rankings are so off...agreed that no one seems to take that particular ranking seriously.

I believe it's a difference in methodologies. Undergrad, law, and business rankings all use a number of metrics from admissions to career placements. However, the public affairs ranking is an academic peer survey of sorts if I'm not mistaken.

[dChrome]

I think USNews needs to do a better job differentiating between the main 'Public Affairs' ranking and the other side rankings... Schools like Goldman and Harris don't have an Masters of Public Affairs/Administration.. UChicago isn't even in the top 15 of the main Public Affairs rankings which is really odd. As a M.P.P., I find the Public Policy Analysis rankings to be the most relevant (yet a bit arbitrary).. but I won't complain as Berkeley is number 1

[msal]

@BendRnBender I am surprised to hear that the rankings are reputation based. Do you think this really explains why Kansas is at the top tier?

[Burnt Orange]

That seems like an ironic reply, as USMA didn't even apply to Harvard and got into Indiana. Oh well.

Like most others, I selected my schools from the same pool of heavy hitting programs and looked closely at academic and personal fit, to include family preferences. Additional factors I considered included faculty area of expertise, research centers, alumni network, job placements, depth and breadth of coursework, national reputation of not just the university, but the Law and Business schools as well. And these are among the same things everyone here considered.

That being the case, I just can't imagine how Kansas, ASU, or FSU place higher in these rankings than SIPA, Harris, GPPI, etc.(Please note that I didn't apply to any of the schools I just mentioned.)

[inquisitive87]

Seconded. I didn't apply to SIPA (for a variety of personal reasons) and have nothing personal invested in it, but USNews has them at #29 below Rutgers and Georgia State?! I would love to hear their justification for the merit of this peer review.

[PrincetonOrBust]

From the USN&WR website regarding methodology:

The public affairs program rankings are based solely on the results of a peer assessment survey. Our rankings, completed in 2012 and based on surveys conducted in fall 2011, are based entirely on responses of deans, directors, and department chairs representing 266 master's of public affairs and administration programs, two per school. Respondents were asked to rate the academic quality of master's programs on a scale of 1 (marginal) to 5 (outstanding). Scores for each school were totaled and divided by the number of respondents who rated that school.

The response rate was 39 percent.

Perhaps the 61% of school administrators that didn't respond were the ones that were busy actually making policy, dealing with 1000's of applications, and working hard to get their students jobs -- leaving no time to fill out US News's survey. Perhaps some of these schools' administrators just had nothign better to do.

[BendRnBender]

I think USNews needs to do a better job differentiating between the main 'Public Affairs' ranking and the other side rankings... Schools like Goldman and Harris don't have an Masters of Public Affairs/Administration.. UChicago isn't even in the top 15 of the main Public Affairs rankings which is really odd. As a M.P.P., I find the Public Policy Analysis rankings to be the most relevant (yet a bit arbitrary).. but I won't complain as Berkeley is number 1

I think you are right. You should pay the most attention to the sub-field rankings. I've noticed that many of you are applying to MPP programs. The programs at the top of the MPP rankings are no surprise. Berkeley, Harvard, Chicago, Princeton et al. are all there. That said, if one is interested in nonprofit management, then one should move away from the Harvards and Chicagos and look at Indiana, Minnesota, NYU, Washington, and Syracuse.

From the USN&WR website regarding methodology:

The public affairs program rankings are based solely on the results of a peer assessment survey. Our rankings, completed in 2012 and based on surveys conducted in fall 2011, are based entirely on responses of deans, directors, and department chairs representing 266 master's of public affairs and administration programs, two per school. Respondents were asked to rate the academic quality of master's programs on a scale of 1 (marginal) to 5 (outstanding). Scores for each school were totaled and divided by the number of respondents who rated that school.

The response rate was 39 percent.

Perhaps the 61% of school administrators that didn't respond were the ones that were busy actually making policy, dealing with 1000's of applications, and working hard to get their students jobs -- leaving no time to fill out US News's survey. Perhaps some of these schools' administrators just had nothign better to do.

This is just dumb and doesn't deserve a response. When you design and administer your own survey, you will understand.

I believe it's a difference in methodologies. Undergrad, law, and business rankings all use a number of metrics from admissions to career placements. However, the public affairs ranking is an academic peer survey of sorts if I'm not mistaken.

You are right. An academic reputation survey will most likely lead to somewhat different results. Practitioners will value some different things. Regardless of whether you are going into academia or a public service job, these rankings are not a bad starting point.

However:

If you want a PhD in Public Policy, shoot for Harvard, Michigan, Chicago, etc.

If you want a PhD in Public Administration/Affairs, shoot for Syracuse, Indiana, Georgia, etc.

[PrincetonOrBust]

This is just dumb and doesn't deserve a response. When you design and administer your own survey, you will understand.

I don't think its as "dumb" as you claim. Though it is impossible for me to find out which schools' administrators responded to the survey, it makes sense that schools like Kansas and Rutgers would be more likely to respond because they clearly have more to gain by gaming the ranking system. It really doesn't matter if Harvard responds or not because people know the name and the reputation, and Harvard is going to get 2000 apps every year, no matter what. On the other hand, if Indiana weren't ranked #2 in this survey (not to say that its not a good school) it would get considerably less applications, and thereby have a smaller qualified applicant pool. My point is that the better a school's reputation actually is, the less incentive it has to play the rankings game. So, when only 39% of schools are repsonding, it makes sense that the vast majority of these schools are going to be those with something to gain from their involvement in creating the rankings -- this is not going to be GPPI, HKS, WWS, and a few select others. These select schools may have actually participated in the survey, i don't know, but it stands to reason that they have less of an incentive to do so.

[Clay Made]

I dont know what makes this BendRnBender an expert and the authority to belittle other commenters as dumb. You have an opinion. Other posters have an opinion. Learn to live by it and stop embarrassing yourself.

[MartianQ]

The 2008 rankings were a little off, but this year's rankings are just ridiculous. The fact that there is such a huge disparity between the two alone is evidence that these rankings shouldn't be taken seriously or used as any sort of a guide. I have respect for USN's undergrad rankings as well as their business and law school rankings for the most part, but public affairs is just a joke this year.

Most of the top 10 I agree with, not necessarily the way they are ranked, but the fact most of them indeed deserve to be in the top 10 or top 15.

But then you see Sanford ranked 16th, right under Arizona State... Okay, I disagree, but I accept it. Then you see GPPI ranked 23rd... umm okay... Harris ranked 23rd as well, at that point I just went oh okay, so this ranking is completely arbitrary. And seeing Columbia SIPA ranked 6 places below at 29 sealed the deal for me. Really?? SIPA is #29, after a whole bunch of no names. You gotta be kidding me. SIPA' placement is on par with HKS. I get that it's supposed to be based on reputation, but I just don't see how that can be the case, just look at employment statistics, admission rates, faculty who teach there, what current and past students are saying, none of it corresponds with those rankings.

Edited March 13, 2012 by MartianQ

[Coloradical]

Timely: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/14/110214fa_fact_gladwell

If you have time (and let's be honest, all you're doing is refreshing GC) give it a read.

tl;dr rankings are bullshit.

[linds]

Do they do any kind of more specific rankings in terms of international policy or more specifically international development? Just wondering

[wasistdas]

Do they do any kind of more specific rankings in terms of international policy or more specifically international development? Just wondering

The only rankings I've really looked at are the Foreign Policy magazine. The US News rankings are, in my opinion, for undergrads and parents that want to brag about their kids without having to know anything about the subject/school.

[linds]

The only rankings I've really looked at are the Foreign Policy magazine. The US News rankings are, in my opinion, for undergrads and parents that want to brag about their kids without having to know anything about the subject/school.

Thanks! You know...I need something to do while I'm waiting out these last decisions and checking this forum like a crazy person. (No one really here in the rural rainforest of Costa Rica to commiserate with).