2024 Creative Writing MFA Applicants Forum

[Karmazinov]

13 minutes ago, a moor said:

I hope that most of you go into these programs with an attempt to speak to the truth of our current context, for so often, what ends up happening is the folks that get the degree end up becoming petit-bourgeoisie adjunct professors somewhere. We all know the academy does not produce material change for those in the mud in the States and throughout the diaspora. I humbly ask that when you enter these institutions, the liberation struggles being fought right now are at the forefront of your mind as you write. We need more writers engaging in our current context, not just sitting around waxing about form that does nothing to improve the material conditions of those who feel the most weight from the state.
Free Sudan, Palestine, and all political prisoners.

100% this.

I am not a US citizen, but I am witnessing university culture here over the last year and I am STUNNED how safe and timid it is. I thought it was a bastion of radical thought, of brave protest etc, but I have seen how speaking about the brutal racist genocide can get you blacklisted, fired, kicked out, doxxed, assaulted.

Also, amazed how tenured professors, who've made a name for themselves on supposedly freedom oriented causes, colonialism etc, now keep their traps tight shut on live abuses, and just generally how careerist everyone is.

I certainly don't think art should only be in the service of politics, in fact it often bores me aesthetically, and I usually prefer more indirect stuff. But I am just shocked how hypocritical people are, and how aggressive the conserative political forces are, and how the academy only pays lip services to causes that are dead, not those ongoing. "Follow the money" is the key phrase to trace all this.

[rhiannonna]

11 hours ago, InfernalDesireMachines said:

Funding is the same for everyone--$26,000 a year. I know that wasn't always the case but it is now!

Thanks for this info! Did they mention anything about what you will be teaching (e.g. creative writing, comp, lit)? Or research assistantships?

I hope you are celebrating post acceptance!

[Chex]

44 minutes ago, pomelo said:

Not yet!

Just checked my portal for Michener and I was rejected. That makes 1a/0w/4r/5p. I’m assuming 3 soft rejections though (NWP, Iowa, and UMass Amherst.) Still waiting to hear from Brown and Sarah Lawrence. It’s not over til it’s over! 

 

Congrats to everyone who’s gotten an acceptance or waitlist notification! I’m so proud of you and I hope you get a chance to celebrate very soon. 

I wouldn't assume a soft rejection for Iowa or NWP fiction just yet. Iowa has been calling those admitted, yes; but assuming they're done calling (and we don't know that), they typically email waitlisted applicants in March. Based on last year's stats, there are waitlist movements, even in Iowa. As for NWP, all the news we've heard so far has been re poetry applicants. A poet who applied there can assume a rejection because acceptances and waitlists have gone out. But we've heard nothing for fiction. I expect we'll hear from them this week, though. 

22 minutes ago, a moor said:

I hope that most of you go into these programs with an attempt to speak to the truth of our current context, for so often, what ends up happening is the folks that get the degree end up becoming petit-bourgeoisie adjunct professors somewhere. We all know the academy does not produce material change for those in the mud in the States and throughout the diaspora. I humbly ask that when you enter these institutions, the liberation struggles being fought right now are at the forefront of your mind as you write. We need more writers engaging in our current context, not just sitting around waxing about form that does nothing to improve the material conditions of those who feel the most weight from the state.
Free Sudan, Palestine, and all political prisoners.

Very well said. Important to keep this in mind because it's easy to lose focus and chase after hollow prizes. Everything is set up to make us complacent, complicit, or otherwise comfortable with the status quo. 

21 minutes ago, dasiena said:

Someone (I forgot who) on this thread said they emailed Brown about the playwriting track and were told notifications would go out next week. I'm not sure whether to assume this is also true of fiction/poetry but hopefully?

Historically it looks like Brown sends acceptances as early as March 7th and as late as March 18th ~

The playwriting program at Brown is a wholly separate program, so I wouldn't assume that the programs in the Literary Arts department (fiction, poetry, etc) would send notices at the same time. What we know is that Brown will notify in March. We have no choice but to be patient. 

As for Iowa and snail mails, I wish they would do away with everything concerning physical mails. It's stressful and distressing. I guess it's part of their whole prestige thing and they're unwilling to let it go. 

[ssuunn]

18 minutes ago, Karmazinov said:

Also, amazed how tenured professors, who've made a name for themselves on supposedly freedom oriented causes, colonialism etc, now keep their traps tight shut on live abuses, and just generally how careerist everyone is.

I certainly don't think art should only be in the service of politics, in fact it often bores me aesthetically, and I usually prefer more indirect stuff. But I am just shocked how hypocritical people are, and how aggressive the conserative political forces are, and how the academy only pays lip services to causes that are dead, not those ongoing. "Follow the money" is the key phrase to trace all this.

I have lots of thoughts on this topic, since I've been working in academia as staff for the last 4 years. One thing that I have noticed is that, generally speaking, the more "radical" faculty members are absolutely steadfast in their wanting change, but if they don't have allies within their own department, the change is either slow or non-existent. I can think of one faculty member that nobody likes and completely ignores their opinions, even when I felt like they had the correct opinion!

During the pandemic, departments were charged with creating public diversity statements and when I tell you the amount of fighting that happened behind the scenes in my department just for this one document... Academia is an incredibly diverse place and agreement even within small departments is rarely found.

[Karmazinov]

4 minutes ago, ssuunn said:

I have lots of thoughts on this topic, since I've been working in academia as staff for the last 4 years. One thing that I have noticed is that, generally speaking, the more "radical" faculty members are absolutely steadfast in their wanting change, but if they don't have allies within their own department, the change is either slow or non-existent. I can think of one faculty member that nobody likes and completely ignores their opinions, even when I felt like they had the correct opinion!

During the pandemic, departments were charged with creating public diversity statements and when I tell you the amount of fighting that happened behind the scenes in my department just for this one document... Academia is an incredibly diverse place and agreement even within small departments is rarely found.

 

Interesting. Thank you.

Incidental forum technical matter - For some reason I'm finding I can't LIKE comments on here anymore. It says "Sorry you can't add any more reactions today". BWeird, I don't do that many reactions. And I can still post comments.

[pomelo]

45 minutes ago, a moor said:

I hope that most of you go into these programs with an attempt to speak to the truth of our current context, for so often, what ends up happening is the folks that get the degree end up becoming petit-bourgeoisie adjunct professors somewhere. We all know the academy does not produce material change for those in the mud in the States and throughout the diaspora. I humbly ask that when you enter these institutions, the liberation struggles being fought right now are at the forefront of your mind as you write. We need more writers engaging in our current context, not just sitting around waxing about form that does nothing to improve the material conditions of those who feel the most weight from the state.
Free Sudan, Palestine, and all political prisoners.

Thank you for saying this. We all have a responsibility, as writers especially, to advance justice. 

 

12 minutes ago, Chex said:

I wouldn't assume a soft rejection for Iowa or NWP fiction just yet.

True! I think I’m just bracing myself for impact.

[InfernalDesireMachines]

22 minutes ago, rhiannonna said:

Thanks for this info! Did they mention anything about what you will be teaching (e.g. creative writing, comp, lit)? Or research assistantships?

I hope you are celebrating post acceptance!

My understanding is that some people at Iowa get fellowships for their first year and some teach comp; for the second year everyone teaches creative writing.

[sylviaplathtears]

12 hours ago, Hjanep said:

I’m in the same boat as you and kind of foolishly assumed I would *probably* get an NYU spot because I live in NYC and wrote about it in my sample and SOP. It’s not over but it’s not looking great. I have 7 rejections (including the Michener and Vandy soft Rs) and am waiting on NYU, Iowa, Brown, UVA. Torture. The not knowing and thinking my phone might ring is likely worse than how I’ll feel with my full slate of rejections? Idk. Solidarity. 

@nataliezimm @Hjanep  I'm in a similar boat! I agree, living in nyc makes the nyu rejection sting a little more!! I'm consoling myself by knowing I can throw myself at the plethora of literary events going on here and hopefully create a writing community if I don't get accepted anywhere this round

[writercl]

Both my Michener and NWP applications are still "in review". I have been keeping a document with how many acceptances, rejections, and waitlists there have been for both a them and the list keeps growing. It seems like the acceptances went first, then waitlists, and now rejections (as they have come out in groups- acceptances the same day, waitlists the same day, and now rejections across many days now, 21st to today). I do feel as though I put all my eggs in one basket because I only applied to these two programs, UH, and Saint Mary's College of California (which I haven't heard of anyone else applying to yet). I am feeling ok about this though. I am graduating with a B.A. in Secondary Education as well with a B.A. in English Literature this May, and I have time. Even if I don't get in, it's ok. I applied to be a barista at my favorite local coffee shop and I feel good about it. I can work there for a year, focus on my writing, create a rent fund for when I move out, and meet new people. Working in such a place where you see the same faces most of the time, new faces every now and then, learn what people like, what they don't like... it feels special. And I think it'll give me a lot to write about. I am trying to keep my chin up of course, my friends and family keep saying that they believe in me and still believe that I will get into one of the programs, but I am also trying to keep my expectations at a simmer. I do believe that there is a plan for me, and a good one, it just might not be in academics this time around. I am a writer no matter if a program accepts me as one or not. I am a poet who loves to write, and I will not be stripped of any title just because programs that only accept 3 people a year don't see me fit (& I am so proud of everyone who has gotten in so far!! so proud!). So for now, I'll just rest in the fact that something will work out, because even when it feels like it won't, it does in the end. 

[lemmmein]

Hi! I just wanted to add to the 'not getting into the program doesn't mean you're not a writer' vibes.

Immediate acceptance is not the only way in. I know I keep saying it, but this was my third round of applications. Every round has been a little bit more torturous, and I was ready to be done if I didn't get in anywhere this time. But damn am I a better writer now than I was when started this.

It's been three years of forcing myself back to the page and into community when I wanted to give up (which is what I imagine the rest of a writing life will be). The work is a win too. It's not just the acceptance. We all spent a ridiculous amount of hours writing stories and poems and thinking about why we want this life, and that matters.

We've spent the last several months voting on our work and examining our motivations for probably just about everything, and so many people never bother to do that. I know it sounds trite, but your work, this work, has not been wasted. You're a better writer for the attempt. You might be a better person for it. The MFA does not determine whether or not you're a writer, academia is a mess (as described above!), and we don't need them to make good work.

That said: shit sucks, y'all. I'm sorry.

[mudpuddle1]

Just declined an offer from the University of Oregon (for fiction). Congrats to whoever gets pulled from the waitlist!!!! :)

[Chex]

6 minutes ago, mudpuddle1 said:

Just declined an offer from the University of Oregon (for fiction). Congrats to whoever gets pulled from the waitlist!!!!

That's wonderful! Thank you on behalf of those waitlisted there. Someone's day is about to be made

[mudpuddle1]

1 minute ago, Chex said:

That's wonderful! Thank you on behalf of those waitlisted there. Someone's day is about to be made

The program sounds AMAZING and the current students I've talked to have had really good things to say!  Their stipend recently increased and the healthcare sounds pretty decent as well. 

[MernaHanson]

For anyone waiting on word from the University of Wyoming, I heard from a friend in the program that their decisions will go out this week.

PS. For what it's worth, I've only heard amazing things from the current students about their time in Wyoming and their new program director Molly Brown.

[mudpuddle1]

Has anyone declined their offer from the University of Tennessee (for fiction)? I'm on the waitlist and waiting on some good news. 

[darr1]

Depression sure does amplify the worthlessness feeling of rejections. Anyone else dealing with that?

And on a related issue - anyone else applying for the first time as an "older" applicant? I'm early 30s, and while I'm totally glad I did not apply when I first wanted to (10 years ago; my writing wasn't ready and I've had a lovely non writing career since then), I can't help but feel like my current tally of 0a/1w/6r is going to lead to a do-over. Is it worth it to try again as a mid-30s applicant?

[ssuunn]

2 minutes ago, darr1 said:

And on a related issue - anyone else applying for the first time as an "older" applicant? I'm early 30s, and while I'm totally glad I did not apply when I first wanted to (10 years ago; my writing wasn't ready and I've had a lovely non writing career since then), I can't help but feel like my current tally of 0a/1w/6r is going to lead to a do-over. Is it worth it to try again as a mid-30s applicant?

I'm 31 and this is my second go. Hopefully I won't have to do this again, but if I do, my third try will definitely be the last. It does kinda give me whiplash when I see undergrads getting into programs (you all deserve it, don't get me wrong!) but I'm often thinking about what they're writing about and why I'm not standing out. I think it's worth it to give it another try if you have to!

One thing I'm using to leverage the pain is that, through my job, I can go back for an MA at almost no cost, so it's not the "end" of getting a graduate degree for me. I might also have a chapbook coming out this year, so it's really just about setting reasonable goals and not putting all your happiness eggs into the MFA basket!

[noor0908889]

Hi guys I got a zoom interview from University of Miami. Does anybody know what kind of questions they ask? Has anyone ever given an interview for MFA Program? How was the experience? Do you have any tips or topics that I need to prepare myself on?

[Rixor]

2 minutes ago, noor0908889 said:

Hi guys I got a zoom interview from University of Miami. Does anybody know what kind of questions they ask? Has anyone ever given an interview for MFA Program? How was the experience? Do you have any tips or topics that I need to prepare myself on?

I have absolutely zero insight on what they ask, but congratulations and good luck!!! Make sure to have questions to ask them, too

Edited February 27 by Rixor

[prufrock_]

21 minutes ago, darr1 said:

Is it worth it to try again as a mid-30s applicant?

as a current mid thirtys applicant, i hope so!

If your life circumstances still line up with being able to move across country, change careers (at least for the duration of the MFA, if not after), and live off the small stipend, then nothing else has changed imo, go for it again.

[Karmazinov]

17 minutes ago, ssuunn said:

I'm 31 and this is my second go. Hopefully I won't have to do this again, but if I do, my third try will definitely be the last. It does kinda give me whiplash when I see undergrads getting into programs (you all deserve it, don't get me wrong!) but I'm often thinking about what they're writing about and why I'm not standing out. I think it's worth it to give it another try if you have to!

One thing I'm using to leverage the pain is that, through my job, I can go back for an MA at almost no cost, so it's not the "end" of getting a graduate degree for me. I might also have a chapbook coming out this year, so it's really just about setting reasonable goals and not putting all your happiness eggs into the MFA basket!

 

I've wondered about this too - whether being older puts you at a disadvantage. I'm older than both of you.

I can imagine the rationale of the institutions wanting to invest in younger writers who might go on to have careers which reflect back glory on the institution they came from...

Anyone know if being if there's an age cut off beyond which it is very unlikely to get admitted?

 

[Rixor]

I don't know if my input matters much here, but in all my research before applying, I've only ever heard that older applicants are preferred over younger ones. It's illegal to discriminate either way, but programs do apparently have preferences. The rationale is that programs want people who have lived out in the real world for a while. An undergraduate student in their senior year has spent 16 years of life in academia, and will spend 2-3 more right after if admitted. There's often inherent naivety there just due to lack of living. Programs want people who have life experience, first and foremost because life experiences fuel peoples' writing and other creative work. Having worked a 9-5, having navigated career changes, being a parent, being a spouse, having watched the world change to a greater extent than someone younger has... All of these are merits. From what I've read, at least.

I do wonder if programs like young students, too, because they're probably easier to 'train up' and 'mold' into writing in a certain style. Iowa faced a lawsuit for this a while back... "application statistics collected by the university show that, over the past five years, none of the 105 applicants age 51 or older were accepted into the workshop’s fiction program. Nearly half of the 135 fiction students accepted from 2013 to 2017 were between the ages of 18 and 25." So, 25+ seems to be the magic age. I don't know what the 'cut off' would be, but maybe 51. 

[airlinefood_enjoyer]

26 minutes ago, noor0908889 said:

Hi guys I got a zoom interview from University of Miami. Does anybody know what kind of questions they ask? Has anyone ever given an interview for MFA Program? How was the experience? Do you have any tips or topics that I need to prepare myself on?

Hi! I didn't apply to Miami, but I interviewed for a different MFA program last week. I would say, be prepared to talk about what you're thinking about for a thesis project, what you'd like to gain from pursuing an MFA, authors/writing that has influenced you, and your approach to writing + working with others in a literary community. I think it also wouldn't hurt to have a few specific things you like about the Miami program to mention if the opportunity comes up. 

Though I wasn't asked about teaching at all, if it's a program that gives out teaching positions, I think it would be helpful to prepare an answer about your approach to teaching undergrads. Also--interviews often end with the interviewer asking if you have any questions for them. Make sure you have at least 1 or 2 thoughtful, specific questions about their program prepared.

This, of course, is just my best guess based on my limited experience, so no guarantees that they'll ask you any of this, lol. Just remember going in that you're getting an interview because they're already impressed + excited by your writing. The interview is your chance to impress them further by coming off as someone with clarity of purpose, someone who works well with others, and someone who could gain a lot from an MFA program. Best of luck!!

[ssuunn]

Just when we were talking about applicants who are 30+ applying to programs... I just got into Oregon for poetry!

[jadedoptimist]

3 minutes ago, ssuunn said:

Just when we were talking about applicants who are 30+ applying to programs... I just got into Oregon for poetry!

YESSS U DID THAT!!!! BE PROUD!!