Factors more important than prestige?

[Golden Monkey]

Ever thought that going to a less prestigious program might be a better fit for you, for various reasons? I only have 2 responses out of 4 so far (one rejection, one acceptance,) and in a lot of ways, the one acceptance is perhaps seeming like a really good fit for me. I am still waiting to hear from a ridiculously prestigious program (not very likely to get in,) but on the off chance I did, I'm now kind of wondering if it would be the best choice anyway.

For one thing, a newer, less-established program seems like it might offer more career growth opportunities. It's also in a part of the country (The Southwest,) I could see settling in long-term, partly due to the cost of living. The more prestigious program (which I have not heard from, and very likely didn't get in anyway,) seems like it has the potential to swallow people in its enormity. I don't think many graduates end up with careers there. In addition, it's in one of the most expensive cities in the US (Boston,) and I can't see ever wanting to live in the area long-term. I also really hate winter.

[was1984]

Fit is the obvious one.

Another one is the individual professor you will be working with. That's far more important than the prestige of the university. If that person is well regarded and well networked, that's the most important thing.

[juilletmercredi]

1. I don't see how a newer program would necessarily offer more career growth opportunities. More established programs are usually considered a known quantity in academia, and generally have the better options.

2. Settling somewhere long-term should not be a consideration if you are planning on a PhD program and going into academia. Chances are your job offer will be somewhere else anyway, and you will have to move. Don't get too attached to any one location if you want to be a professor, especially if you are in one of the humanities.

It honestly doesn't matter if you go to a program in Boston, unless you are miserable there. That doesn't mean you will ever get a job there (and Boston being Boston, you probably won't. The competition for those professor positions in Boston is going to be fierce).

If you are planning to take your PhD into industry then that might be more of a consideration, but if the program is a reasonably well-known one in your field then again, it doesn't matter where you go location-wise.

But to answer the actual question, fit is more important than prestige. You need to fit there research-wise and not be miserable (because if you are miserable you will not want to do work). In a lot of fields and within academia in general, who you work with is also more important than the general prestige of the university or the department. If you are working with someone famous in your area at a middling department, that can sometimes be better than going to a famous department and working with an unknown.

I'd also argue that to a certain extent, happiness is more important than prestige. I'm not saying that you should rule out areas because that's not where you want to be right now. I'm saying that if you know you'd be miserable in a certain type of environment, then to me getting a PhD is not worth the 5 years of misery (or more). If the best program in the country is on a farm in a rural area but #3 is in a city I'd go for number 3, personally. But if you know that you would be reasonably content in a specific place I wouldn't rule it out.

[Golden Monkey]

Thanks, this makes sense. I guess a lot of it depends on the field. Mine is not in the humanities; it's in technology. Also, being 15 years or so older than the typical PhD student is a factor. This is my first career change, but my academic field is actually pretty closely related to my professional field for the previous 15 years of my life. My professional life actually kind of led me back into school. All of my business contacts are back in L.A., and so I'm figuring that being geographically closer to my business contacts might be of some benefit. I've been doing my best to keep in contact with them out here on the East Coast, but I think being able to hop back and forth on a 1-hour flight would be really convenient, if for no other reason than to say, "hey, what are you working on? This is what I'm working on."

Also, it's true about us old people and warm climates. East Coast winters are really not agreeing with me.

[Iknownothing]

I have a similar situation, except I HAVE been accepted to the prestigious school and the lower ranked school. I've visited the lower ranked school and LOVED it! Now, as I await my visit to the prestigious school (more money too) I am terrified that I won't fit in or I won't like it. Everyone tells me I'm crazy if I don't take the offer from the R1 school, but what if I just like the other school better? We'll see.

I am also an older student and I have a family who are willing to move wherever I want to go, but I know they would rather live in the area where the lesser ranked school is, BUT I know they would appreciate the job security that may come with getting a PhD at a well-known and respected school (for my field).

[Strangefox]

I have a similar situation, except I HAVE been accepted to the prestigious school and the lower ranked school. I've visited the lower ranked school and LOVED it! Now, as I await my visit to the prestigious school (more money too) I am terrified that I won't fit in or I won't like it. Everyone tells me I'm crazy if I don't take the offer from the R1 school, but what if I just like the other school better? We'll see.

I am also an older student and I have a family who are willing to move wherever I want to go, but I know they would rather live in the area where the lesser ranked school is, BUT I know they would appreciate the job security that may come with getting a PhD at a well-known and respected school (for my field).

That's a tough situation... Do tell us about your visit to the prestigious school. I am curious to know how it will be

Good luck!

[beanbagchairs]

Golden Monkey,

I'd choose fit and happiness over prestige. Unless, the quality of the research differs greatly. Then, I'll "suffer" at the prestige school. I actually wont suffer if I like the research. If I were you, I'll keep my options open. Why dont you visit the prestige school (in the case of acceptance), it may surprise you! You may like it better there!

Congrats on the acceptance!

[MJ0911]

As a PhD applicant, fit definitely trumps prestige where the fit is much much better, and the 'lesser' university is still really good, or perhaps has a particularly good reputation in my field as opposed to an all around 'brand' name.

I have a question though, which I hope isn't so personal that it doesn't apply or isn't of use to others...

My top two choices are both GREAT research fits for me, my potential supervisors are amazing, and both offer great opportunities to be part of research groups etc. They are also literally across the road from each other so location isn't an issue. One of them has a more widely recognised name outside the UK, is known for being generally excellent, has a great reputation for the department I'd be studying in. The other has an amazing reputation for my department for those in-the-know, but is less known outside the UK and even in the UK doesn't have quite the same reputation. I have an acceptance from the second one (where I have spoken to my POI and really liked him), and am still waiting on the first, so this question may be moot, but does anyone have any advice on which they would choose? I already have a masters degree from the first place, and have worked as a fellow in a top US law school, then as a research scholar at an Ivy - does this mean I could discount the difference in reputation on the basis that I have plenty of international "names" on my resume already so shouldn't concern myself too much with prestige? If I get offers from both (with funding) the prestige factor and the question of future career choices (they would take me in quite different directions) would be the deciding factors, so it'd be great to know how important people think the prestige thing is, all else being pretty equal?

[Strangefox]

If I get offers from both (with funding) the prestige factor and the question of future career choices (they would take me in quite different directions) would be the deciding factors, so it'd be great to know how important people think the prestige thing is, all else being pretty equal?

I think, if everything else is pretty equal, you should go for prestige. It will definetely open more doors and create more opportunities for you in the future.

Cograts on acceptances and good luck!

[neuropsych76]

I ended up getting rejected (post interview) from a slightly more prestigious school than the school I was accepted into. However, I think I have a much better fit with the slightly less prestigious school so I wasn't too heartbroken about the rejection. I think as long as it's close things like fit, cost of living, and weather can be big factors. However, if there is a huge different between two programs than you have to go with prestige.

[Quazifuji]

I have a similar situation, except I HAVE been accepted to the prestigious school and the lower ranked school. I've visited the lower ranked school and LOVED it! Now, as I await my visit to the prestigious school (more money too) I am terrified that I won't fit in or I won't like it. Everyone tells me I'm crazy if I don't take the offer from the R1 school, but what if I just like the other school better? We'll see.

That's pretty similar to my situation. I've got a lot of visits total (visit three so far and doing three more), but I think the decision's probably going to come down to a top 10 school that I've visited already and loved (with a TA position plus some extra fellowship money on top) or a really prestigious school I haven't visited yet (although I worked there last Summer so still know a good deal about the program) with an RAship. The other schools always give the reasons that you might want to pick them over a really prestigious school just so they don't only get rejects from the top programs, and some of their reasons are fairly compelling. I'm hoping I just end up loving the school when I visit anyway, but April's going to be really stressful if I don't.

(I'm coming straight from undergrad, though, so that part's different).

Edited March 7, 2011 by Quazifuji

[Golden Monkey]

Golden Monkey,

I'd choose fit and happiness over prestige. Unless, the quality of the research differs greatly. Then, I'll "suffer" at the prestige school. I actually wont suffer if I like the research. If I were you, I'll keep my options open. Why dont you visit the prestige school (in the case of acceptance), it may surprise you! You may like it better there!

Congrats on the acceptance!

Thanks! I think you're right. In the (one in a million chance) that I got accepted at the prestige school, I really should visit, since they're close by.

[Golden Monkey]

I have a similar situation, except I HAVE been accepted to the prestigious school and the lower ranked school. I've visited the lower ranked school and LOVED it! Now, as I await my visit to the prestigious school (more money too) I am terrified that I won't fit in or I won't like it. Everyone tells me I'm crazy if I don't take the offer from the R1 school, but what if I just like the other school better? We'll see.

I am also an older student and I have a family who are willing to move wherever I want to go, but I know they would rather live in the area where the lesser ranked school is, BUT I know they would appreciate the job security that may come with getting a PhD at a well-known and respected school (for my field).

Yeah, for us older people, I think there are some factors that complicate matters that probably wouldn't be an issue at a younger age. In your case, it's family, which I don't have. But at my age, it's not so easy for me to throw all caution to the wind and not have a backup plan. I keep wondering things like, "if I don't finish, what then?" Or, "if the funding is inadequate or dries up completely, how am I going to make a living?" And at that point, things like the cost of living, job opportunities in the area, etc., start to come into play.

[Bactrian]

How do people feel about the fit vs. prestige when it comes to MA programs (my situation)? I'm leaning toward prestige since the MA years are more about classes than lots of research and the name-brand will likely help when I apply for PhD programs in a few years. Thoughts?

[MJ0911]

How do people feel about the fit vs. prestige when it comes to MA programs (my situation)? I'm leaning toward prestige since the MA years are more about classes than lots of research and the name-brand will likely help when I apply for PhD programs in a few years. Thoughts?

At MA I don't think fit is such an issue - you're not going to be working so closely with a supervisor and your research is going to be wider and in less depth.

[Golden Monkey]

At MA I don't think fit is such an issue - you're not going to be working so closely with a supervisor and your research is going to be wider and in less depth.

I would agree with this. All other things being equal (particularly the financial end of it,) you start a master's and *poof* it's over. I think it's worth it to go for the big name.

If there's a huge financial difference between the two, it's kinda different, IMO.

[Behavioral]

This thread encompasses my dilemma exactly. I have an admit day at my dream school (a priori) next week, but have visited a few programs that are very compelling and will be difficult to turn down. The prestige school is chock-full of well-known professors, but one of the schools I'm really heavily considering has one of the most well-known professors in the field who's interested in working with me. Both are in locations that I'd love to live in (albeit completely different from each other), so I can't really parse out other subjective factors from my decision as easily as I'd like to. Hopefully my visit next week will be extremely awesome or extremely negative to aid in my decision