economy, unemployment and grad admissions

[aquellita]

If you were guaranteed a job after graduation would you be applying to grad school?

Just wondering, since I read that graduate unemployment is at an all time high and many schools cite in their rejection letters that this year the number of applicant was at a record high for only a few spots.

[lydibird]

Yes.

I know that the best jobs I could get with my bachelors are jobs I would abhor after a few months. It doesn't make sense to wait when I know that do do anything "fun" I'd need a graduate degree.

[BassAZ]

I take this kind of serious: graduate degrees are just like any other professional development. You do it to enhance your chances or the ability to open a certain employment door. If you don't know applicably why you are doing your graduate degree, you have to seriously ask yourself why you're getting into your program. And I feel like until you're able to answer the question "What will this do for me?", you shouldn't really pursue your graduate degree.

[Amalia222]

I could totally turn this question around by saying that (especially in the humanities!) I HAVE to go to graduate school if I want to work. I've had an MA for years, and every time I've tried to apply for jobs at community colleges, people with Ph.Ds beat me out for the jobs. Prior to applying for graduate school, I've only been able to get part-time and low-pay jobs due to the economy. I taught for years abroad, yet when I came home to California, I found that you cannot work in the CA education system without taking 1-2 years to get a credential (and I can't afford the expense and time not working!) and then you are stuck working in underfunded, miserable high schools and elementary schools. For me, the Ph.D. is a godsend--not only do I have a 5 year reprieve, where I can work on my writing and educate myself (I confess, I'm a school nerd. I love it!), but when I get out, at least I have a shot at being a college professor, when before people wouldn't even blink at my MA. I had no Plan B other than my Ph.D, because I've been looking for work for MONTHS and only could get part time jobs, and never enough income to support myself. A big part of my decision had to do with the economy--I'm just lucky it worked out in my favor. But I don't think it's enough to go to grad school just because you can't find a job. You have to really have a passion for what you are doing, and commit to 5 years of hard work and scholarship. I've been planning to get my doctorate for years, and the economy was only one aspect of my decision to apply now.

[lotrsimp12345]

yea i have a job offer... but job is not really that interesting. pays really well though. Want to go into research, get turned down everytime, company tells me my credentials are good except need a phd...

[The Dudester]

Right now my career choices seem to be limited to shitty retail jobs or teaching high school. If I get a PhD and no one wants me, the choices are the same. Might as well take a stab at what I like.

[farnsworth]

The only jobs that seem to be open for me right now are adjunct instructor positions. Not enough pay to live on really. I guess I could apply for a job at walmart, but I don't want to be the guy with a MS that is pushing shopping carts...

[Ventulus]

I've been out of undergrad for almost 4 years, and I'm planning on leaving my job to go back to school. Given that the two paths (corporate, academia) are so different it's hard to imagine one being the plan "B" of the other.

[Gunner24]

I've been out of undergrad for almost 4 years, and I'm planning on leaving my job to go back to school. Given that the two paths (corporate, academia) are so different it's hard to imagine one being the plan "B" of the other.

I respectfully disagree with your last point. Are you saying that one must decide which path to take after earning a Bachelor's, corporate or academia? And after choosing the path, there's no way one could ever decide halfway through their MA that they want to go into the private sector instead of continue on with the PhD to be a professor? Maybe my interpretation is wrong...but that seems like a very one-dimensional, black and white way to look at it. There aren't just two clear-cut paths...today's workplace is too complex to be reduced to that.

Even if I had an entry-level job available right now, I'd still go get my Master's. While I may not get that upper-level, higher paying job right away after earning the advanced degree, it may be a qualification for promotions 3, 5, 10 years down the line. I'd rather have that qualification out of the way while I'm young and childless, rather than have to leave the workplace later, when I might have kids and mortgage.

Just my two cents. Good luck to you either way.

[Red Bull]

If you were guaranteed a job after graduation would you be applying to grad school?

Just wondering, since I read that graduate unemployment is at an all time high and many schools cite in their rejection letters that this year the number of applicant was at a record high for only a few spots.

I would still be going to graduate school. I want to be a professor of religious studies. While there may be more students vying for positions in graduate school because of the economy, I do not feel threatened. I have spent so much time and energy in my undergrad years developing my scholarly skills that I don't feel threatened by those who otherwise would be in the job market. I have publishing credits, paper talks, teaching experience, etc that set me apart from those people who just need something to do until the amelioration of the world's economic woes. I think it won't be too difficult for admissions committees to sort out those who have really worked toward a vision of grad school and those who, like the fabled groundhog, poked their head into the post-graduation world and decided that it's worth it to pursue more school instead of tackling a difficult job market.

[TransnationalHistory]

Right now my career choices seem to be limited to shitty retail jobs or teaching high school. If I get a PhD and no one wants me, the choices are the same. Might as well take a stab at what I like.

Exactly. Honestly, I'm not sure if I want to be a professor. Certainly I can think of far worse jobs, but that's never been my goal in life. Since I graduated college (2007) I've rarely been employed full-time, and the only "real job" I had was so horrible (my boss actually called me a "retard" and a "loser with a loser life") that I quit after seven weeks. So the idea that I'll get paid to read and write on a subject I find fascinating, with money to travel to do archival research in the summer....well that sounds pretty ideal to me. Plus I'll be making far more money than ever...the one advantage of living near the poverty line is that stipend actually looks like a gravy train.

So yes, if I had managed to get a job that I found exciting and mentally stimulating, and rewarded creative thinking, I probably would not have applied to grad school this year. But I don't think that means I'm making a mistake by going next fall.

Also, I don't think with PhD our options in the regular job market will be so glum. Besides academia, there are other jobs that value people with specialized knowledge.

[farnsworth]

the one advantage of living near the poverty line is that stipend actually looks like a gravy train.

This is such a great statement to me. I've heard some PhD students complain about only getting a thousand or so a month, and I think about all the wonderful things I could do with 1 to 1.5 thousand a month.

[Gunner24]

Exactly. Honestly, I'm not sure if I want to be a professor. Certainly I can think of far worse jobs, but that's never been my goal in life. Since I graduated college (2007) I've rarely been employed full-time, and the only "real job" I had was so horrible (my boss actually called me a "retard" and a "loser with a loser life") that I quit after seven weeks. So the idea that I'll get paid to read and write on a subject I find fascinating, with money to travel to do archival research in the summer....well that sounds pretty ideal to me. Plus I'll be making far more money than ever...the one advantage of living near the poverty line is that stipend actually looks like a gravy train.

So yes, if I had managed to get a job that I found exciting and mentally stimulating, and rewarded creative thinking, I probably would not have applied to grad school this year. But I don't think that means I'm making a mistake by going next fall.

Also, I don't think with PhD our options in the regular job market will be so glum. Besides academia, there are other jobs that value people with specialized knowledge.

Well said, sir/ma'am/____ !

[everygirl]

I do have a job right now, and I'm planning on leaving it if I get into my top choice program.

But I waver a lot. My job is a very good entry level position in the government, and it is actually interesting, with fun people and a lot of room for professional growth. When I graduated, I went for an internship, thinking I could work for a summer while thinking about what I wanted to study in grad school, and then go back and possibly beef up my undergraduate degree. But since then I've been promoted at my job and decided not to go back to my undergraduate school.

Some days I think ... with the economy so bad and gainful employment so hard to find, I"m not sure what I'm doing, thinking about leaving this position to chase this dream, even though to have advanced degrees in my discipline is a dream I've had for a long time. There are no guarantees that I'll be able to get a job with this degree after graduating -- so why don't I just stay where I am and work my way up with what I already have? It seems to be working so far.

Other days I think that in the long run, advanced degrees would increase my earning potential and give me the skills I wouldn't get in an entry level position, so I could skip the micro promotions and go for a big one at the end. I'm only 23, why should I settle? Why should I give up on dreams so fast?

On the other hand, I'm only 23, who says there's only one dream -- who says that the one dream I had of being incredibly educated in my field and using it is the only way to live life? I like what I'm doing right now. It's time to branch out from school. Grad school isn't going anywhere. It might even be easier to get into with more funding after the recession is over and people go back to work!

Blargh. Lots of things to think about. I suppose I better get accepted somewhere before starting to freak out about big decisions.

*Note: am already freaking out.

[wanderlust07]

Yes--although I often think I'm batshit insane for doing so.

I took some time off and "worked" (at various entry-level, retail, etc. blah jobs) for two years before coming back for an MA--long story, never mind. I'm certainly not sorry to be back in school, but I've been moving around so often and living out of boxes for so long that I often worry that I'll always have one foot out the door. Applying at all the first time was a total crap shoot, for which I was woefully under-prepared after being out of academia. Applying for PhD programs in English this round has likewise been a crap shoot. Even if I successfully complete the PhD, 6 or so years from now, getting a full time, stable position in my field (let alone something tenure-track) will be...you guessed! A crap shoot. I am setting myself up to enter a field in which there have been--for a long time now--far more qualified professionals than the economy or the academy can support, and this means that it is inherently unstable. At middle age, I could still be living like I am now: taking longer and longer to unpack after each move and playing the shell game with my debt.

And yet...and yet. There is so much I love about this work: Being pleasantly surprised by that kernel of new and original thought or a witty turn of phrase in a struggling student's essay. Those minutes in front of a white board when my paper is still an inchoate mess of colored notes but is...almost...there--if I just jiggle the pieces a little bit longer. The chaotic cascade of old books spilling over my office desk, too large to ever be read cover to cover but promising infinite discovery. Lunch with fellow students that somehow degenerates into philosophical debates, and knowing that no matter how vehemently you disagree, you will all still be friends the next day, because vigorous debate is a healthy necessity in academia. Late night grading parties that plummet off the cliff into sleep-deprived insanity, leaving you all laughing hysterically on the floor, with jokes that will keep you afloat for weeks and make zero sense to anyone else. The smell of coffee in the morning before teaching, because my office mate got there first. Freedom to pursue topics of interest and importance to me, rather than those set by others. Hitting command+s and being DONE.

I would be SO bored and miserable doing anything else. Masochistic? Quite possibly.

[jordanami]

You are smart, it has taken me 8 years of dithering around, trying to force myself to endure unsatisfying positions, to realize I really just need a doctorate in order to be able to do anything fun.

Yes.

I know that the best jobs I could get with my bachelors are jobs I would abhor after a few months. It doesn't make sense to wait when I know that do do anything "fun" I'd need a graduate degree.