am i too young

[tooyoungforgrad]

I've been at grad school for 8 weeks now and hated almost every second of it. I feel stupid every seminar, class, homework. I'm not doing terribly gradeswise but I Know I contribute less than anyone else in my cohort in discussions. The rest of my cohort are 27+, I'm 22 having come straight from a three year degree. I'm in the social sciences and just feel I should quit, spend some time getting life experience and then potentially come back to it. I would hate to start hating my subject which I loved at undergrad but living on next to nothing for five years for this seems like a complete waste of time. I've moved from Europe to do this and would rather be making some money, living close to friends and family and not feel like an idiot every second of the day. However on the other hand a lot of people don't seem to enjoy grad school at first and get into it. I also don't want to disappoint my refereees who wrote strong letters of recommendation for me or the professors here who have been excellent.

Any ideas

[rising_star]

The first year is the worst. Almost everyone thinks about quitting. You have to remember why you're there, what your goals are, etc. If your goals no longer require you to be there, leave. But probably finish the first semester.

P.S. 22 isn't too young. I started grad school at 21, literally 2 days after graduating from undergrad. Most of the people I hung out with in grad school were 25-29. Now I'm doing a PhD in another school, at the age of 23, and I'm one of the youngest people here. It's lonely at times but you get used to it. Research is lonely anyway.

[Nofia]

totally agree with rising_star...the first year is meant to be something of a boot camp experience. I'm willing to bet your cohort has plenty of their own moments of feeling inadequate as well. While most of my fellow first years and I did have life/work experience before coming to grad school, I dont think the people who came straight from undergrad are offering less in any way because they haven't been cubicle rats like the rest of us ;-). Just hang in there, and at least stick out to the end of the year to decide what you think. Even if you just finish the MA and decide to go into the job market, then come back to do the PhD later, you'll probably be happier to have had something to show for you efforts, not to mention all that application anxiety. we're almost through the first semester after all! grad school is tough and a unique experience that time in the working world doesnt really prepare you for. And believe me, its a lot easier to start grad school before you've gotten used to a fat paycheck and weekends off.

[timuralp]

Man, I'm 21 and just gotten through the first 2 months of it, so in the same boat pretty much. I definitely went through a slump where I was questioning if I came to the right school, if I'm doing the right thing with my life, if I chose the right advisor... and at the time the best I could come up with was "I don't know." I think for me the deciding factor was that eventually research started to click and I got into it a lot more, so I enjoy the work... Once you feel good about the work you're putting in, I think things will turn up for the better

I definitely agree with the whole "at least get an MA" bit. If you don't give it an honest shot, you might find yourself wondering down the road what could have been. Just stick with it for a bit, try to make your way through it; at least if you quit after that there'll be no regrets. And the lonely part, well, I can't help you there. I'm yet to make any friends in the two months I've been here, but I think it's related to the fact that I'm in computer science - not the most social field, and spending all day in the lab doing research is not contributing... but if you figure out how to solve that one, let me know. Good luck.

[mlle]

This thread is really amusing - I started grad school at age 24 after taking 3 years off (I also did my BA in 3 yrs) and I felt like I was too OLD!! Most of my classmates in my cohort took no more than a year off or they had come straight from undergrad. I felt like such a wandering and directionless loser for doing exactly what tooyoungforgrad wants to do--taking time to just work and "get life experience," "enjoy" my youth or whatever. (FYI I found out the hard way that I couldn't make that much money or get very far with a BA in the social sciences anyway, so taking time off was not very rewarding after all).

I completely relate to your experience of your first semester of grad school. It was completely alienating. My classmates were so ambitious and competitive and had already accomplished so much more than me even though they had come straight from undergrad. It all seemed out of my league, I felt like I didn't belong in my program at all, that I had made a huge mistake and picked the wrong field (also the social sciences), etc. etc. Based on my experience, I think a lot of what you're saying has to do with the initial shock and adjustment. I broke into it and started feeling like less of an idiot by the end of my first year. Grad school is evidently demoralizing no matter what your age is, so it's not that you're too young, you just need to be able to suck it up and take it in stride. Good luck.

[Minnesotan]

Remember, folks: earning a PhD is a marathon, not a race. If you feel overwhelmed, take fewer classes. If you need some support, try to make some friends (outside of your department, if you have to). If you feel too young, go get drunk and play some video games with the undergrads (you do not teach or supervise in any way) on the weekend. If you feel too old, remember that the young pups are intimidated by your greater life experiences.

Self-doubt is a useless feeling that springs up over and over again in grad school. Everyone thinks they're not good, smart, young, old, motivated, thin, or pretty enough to earn a PhD. Well, frankly, none of that shit matters once you've been accepted to your program. The admissions committee's sole purpose was to make sure you were good enough to get in. All you have to do is prove them right.

[juilletmercredi]

Haha, I like Minnesotan's advice about the undergrads. I'm closer in age to the upper-level undergrads at my university than I am to the majority of my doctoral cohort, but I feel the same way as tooyoungforgrad -- I'm 22, and came to this Ph.D program directly after undergraduate college. Sometimes I feel like I should've "enjoyed my youth," worked for a few years, traveled the world, etc. I have to sit down and, practically, tell myself

1) The only job that I really want to be doing is research. I couldn't do any meaningful research with a BA -- I'd just be a lab grunt -- so it made the most sense for me to enter graduate school directly after undergrad.

2) I AM enjoying my youth. I'm in an amazing program, I've made good friends here, I go out on the weekends, my fiance is nearby.

3) I probably wouldn't make much more money had I gotten a full-time job with just my BA -- the average salary for a BA in psychology is the same amount as my salary as a graduate research assistant, LOL!

Besides, my doctoral cohort is fun and I also hang out with the master's students a lot, who are still graduate students but they tend to be younger. I just know that a lot of them will be graduating and moving on at the end of next year (spring 2010) but then a new cohort will come in...

[Chamchewy]

Man, you guys are making me nervous. I will enter grad school at the age of 20 (3 years BA). Maybe I should start making friends with undergrads instead..

[jasper.milvain]

You don't need to leave school to gain 'life experience'. There are lots of grad students who went straight through and have full lives, with relationships and non-school interests and a real sense of how to live in the world as an adult. On the other hand, there are lots of grad students who went straight through who are incredibly naive, stunted people.

I'm 24 and starting my PhD in the fall. I started my BA at 17 and my MA at 22, with one year off during my BA. During that year off, I got an office job. I was terrified that all of the cliches would be true and I wouldn't be able to handle 'the real world'. Turns out that the time management, communication, organization, and public speaking skills I picked up in my undergrad were all totally applicable and I had a blast. I also unexpectedly met my husband, who has never been to university. He keeps me grounded through this whole process. All of this is to say that if you're living intentionally, trying to build a life outside of school, and honestly pushing yourself to learn and grow, you're not at a disadvantage to people who took time off. I have friends in my program who are also 24, and some who are 35 and even 55. Some days I wish I was older, and some days the older students wish they were younger. Everyone has doubts. You're not the only one who feels like you're feeling now.

[Dontuse]

Please please please do not quit tooyoungforgrad... oh, and change your screenname while you're at it [grin].

Do understand that this same cache of 25-30year olds which intimidate you likely admire that you were accepted into the program at your young age so the 'wide-eye'd looks are mutual.

In addition do take note that your program would not have accepted you had they thought you were incapable. You dropping out does nothing good for their statistics or for the morale of the students who you'd leave in your wake.

If, however, you feel that you are struggling (& not simply 'not contributing as much as you'd like) first take it up with your advisor. Perhaps his/her insight may shine light on your progress.

Remember, folks: earning a PhD is a marathon, not a race. If you feel overwhelmed, take fewer classes. If you need some support, try to make some friends (outside of your department, if you have to). If you feel too young, go get drunk and play some video games with the undergrads (you do not teach or supervise in any way) on the weekend. If you feel too old, remember that the young pups are intimidated by your greater life experiences.

Self-doubt is a useless feeling that springs up over and over again in grad school. Everyone thinks they're not good, smart, young, old, motivated, thin, or pretty enough to earn a PhD. Well, frankly, none of that shit matters once you've been accepted to your program. The admissions committee's sole purpose was to make sure you were good enough to get in. All you have to do is prove them right.

Oh Minnesotan, I could NOT have said it better. Bravo.

[Athena]

Man, you guys are making me nervous. I will enter grad school at the age of 20 (3 years BA). Maybe I should start making friends with undergrads instead..

You'll be fine! I started at 20. Just one bit of advice: do not drink alcohol in front of anyone until you turn 21. I was very careful about this - not because I'm addicted to drink (definitely not), but because I never knew who'd be watching or care about such things. And you are definitely not missing out on high-quality wine by foregoing the plastic sippy cup (obligatory at every academic conference).

[belowthree]

You'll be fine! I started at 20. Just one bit of advice: do not drink alcohol in front of anyone until you turn 21. I was very careful about this - not because I'm addicted to drink (definitely not), but because I never knew who'd be watching or care about such things. And you are definitely not missing out on high-quality wine by foregoing the plastic sippy cup (obligatory at every academic conference).

Having taken the opposite route and drank in academic settings while under 21, I'd have to say it doesn't matter all that much. There was actually some really excellent wine at someone's thesis defense party I would have been loathe to miss.

I mean do what you'd want, but from my experience no one particularly concerns themselves with those things.

[Aceflyer]

I still think it's better to be safe than sorry, as the old saying goes. In any case, it's illegal in the States for people under 21 to drink, so why risk it? Most people in academic settings probably couldn't care less, but run into even one person who does care for whatever reason, and you could end up in a ton of trouble. Because those people who couldn't care less sure aren't going to go on the record defending underage drinking. Do what you want to do, I just think it's generally a bad idea to break the law.

[MaximKat]

illegal to drink until 21? like at all, not only in public places etc? wow... how strongly is it forced? what is the punishment?

[virmundi]

Just a little perspective for the original poster...

The Princeton Historian, Peter Brown, had published his still-to-this-day authoritative work on Augustine of Hippo by the time he was 27 or 28 years old. You are by no means too young for graduate school work, and there is no telling where your unique life trajectory will take you! If you, at some point, feel the need to take a break and get some other life experiences, look into your programs leave options... however, there is nothing unusual about having a bit of doubt -- all of us who are graduate students are entering a somewhat unique situation. As undergrads, it is likely that we were generally among the smartest couple of students in each of our classes... In grad school, it is common for every student to be just as intellectually engaged, intelligent, bright, and interested as we are! It is a definite transition and absolutely takes some getting used to.

I'm 30 years old -- and I have to continually remind myself that my trajectory is unique when I'm surrounded by so many young, brilliant, driven people, and that it's my duty and privilege to make the most of it, and to do my best to enjoy as much of it as I can! I hope that you can do the same.

Regards!

[Aceflyer]

illegal to drink until 21? like at all, not only in public places etc? wow... how strongly is it forced? what is the punishment?

Well, the precise laws and punishments vary by state. In Texas, for example:

Minors who purchase, attempt to purchase, possess, or consume alcoholic beverages, as well as minors who are intoxicated in public or misrepresent their age to obtain alcoholic beverages, face the following consequences:

> Class C misdemeanor, punishable by a fine up to $500

> Alcohol awareness class

> 8 to 40 hours community service

> 30 to 180 days loss or denial of driver's license

If a minor is seventeen years of age or older and the violation is the third offense, the offense is punishable by a fine of $250 to $2,000, confinement in jail for up to 180 days or both, as well as automatic driver's license suspension.

A minor with previous alcohol-related convictions will have his or her driver's license suspended for one year if the minor does not attend alcohol awareness training that has been required by the judge.

[TulipOHare]

illegal to drink until 21? like at all, not only in public places etc? wow... how strongly is it forced? what is the punishment?

Officially, all over the US, it's completely illegal for people under 21 to buy, drink, possess, or transport alcohol in any situation. Liquor stores, bars, and restaurants that sell to people under 21 can get stiff fines, or lose permission to sell alcohol. Exact punishments for underage drinkers differ depending on the state. How strongly it's enforced varies a lot on circumstances, but you generally have to do something stupid and call attention to yourself in order to get in trouble for it. Plenty of people drink for a long time before they turn 21 and never get in trouble... others, well...

[belowthree]

The strongest rule about alcohol at any age is "don't be dumb."

If you follow this no one is likely going to take issue. It's a commonly broken law and there's a small movement among leading college and university presidents to reconsider the issue. There are actually a few jurisdictions within the US that allow underage drinking under very specific circumstances. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Under ... p_2007.gif)

For the international crowd unfamiliar with US alcohol laws, the following page might be helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_co ... ted_States

[rising_star]

A thesis defense is one thing, trying to go to the department's happy hour while underage is quite another. The bar we go to won't even let anyone in that's not 21 (same was true at my last program as well).

[ChloeLovesLife]

Hey!

I understand how you feel!

I graduated early from my undergrad school too and felt very lonely (seeing as how none of my other friends even stayed in school to begin with!). I'm 22 also, but I took 6 months off between undergrad and grad.

I have to say that it was the best thing for me... I mean it was awful and scary and miserable at first, but then I really came to like just working (of course, that is with the anticipation of going back to school. Before I got my acceptance letter, I was in full on "quarter life crisis" mode).

I'm a visual artist, a comedian and an avid reader. I didn't have time for any of that stuff while trying to get my degree (oddly enough, in fine arts!). Since I graduated in December 08, I've done several paintings, hundreds of drawings, participated in sketch comedy shows and read more books than I can count. It's been awesome (after I learned how to walk again... I'm telling you it can be very scary at first).

After reading about how you feel, I know for certain that I would have felt the same way if I did what you did (go right back to school and change your whole life to accommodate it). I think you should follow your heart... which I assume is saying "take some time off!"? Look into what it entails for you and what it means regarding your degree... but above all: put your happiness first (in a responsible way of course)!!!

Best of luck!

[kfed2020]

A thesis defense is one thing, trying to go to the department's happy hour while underage is quite another. The bar we go to won't even let anyone in that's not 21 (same was true at my last program as well).

Haha. It's funny, because when I was an underage undergrad with a few grad student friends in the department, I'd often head to the department events for exactly that reason: free wine! Lots, and lots of free wine.

[CrisCain]

I can relate- I'm also 22. I graduated from my undergrad in three years and went right into my MA. Now, I'll graduate from there in May and am furiously trying to get into a funded doctorate program for next year.

I was worried about my age and discussed it with my advisor who said "Don't take a break! Keep going!" I think that there is something to be said for life experience- I see it in my master's classes now. But I also believe that us 'youngins' have a fresh perspective to contribute as well.