The opposite problem with age ...

[ekans]

Hi all,

I am a regular here on the forums, but I'm posting under a different username to preserve my anonymity. I don't mean to offend anyone with my post, but I am deeply sorry if I do. If you could give me your outside perspective on this, I would be eternally grateful.

This fall, I will be enrolling in a science Ph.D. program at a very prominent university in a large urban area. I skipped the last few years of secondary school, entered college early, and am now graduating at 19. While I've made many friends (both among my similarly-aged peers and with more traditional students) at my undergraduate institution, I have never been in a relationship. I wouldn't say I'm particularly weird, and I try to be a genuinely nice person, but I'm a bit socially awkward and have been told I need to work on my self-confidence. (I'm fine on paper, but when I talk, I often can come across as emotionless or just a babbling idiot.) Most of the students on my undergrad campus are out of my age range (average age for undergrads here is 25), and I guess I just didn't "hit it off" with those who were younger. I'm now concerned about what might (not) happen in grad school and beyond. I don't want to be alone forever!

I'm not planning on hanging out with the undergrads too much during my graduate studies (though I do have a few friends who are currently undergrads at/near the school I'll be attending). I've never been one to partake in heavy drinking, loud music, or wild dancing, so I'm ruling out the undergraduate party scene as a possible social avenue. I've lived with my parents throughout college, but I don't imagine that I'd change my social patterns much as a grad student--even when I lived at a large undergrad university while doing a summer research program, I avoided going clubbing or partying with some of the other interns. And I think that even if I were to talk with some of the undergrads, they'd likely find me to be somewhat dim-witted (you know, with my definitively-non-Ivy League et al. college education) compared to the intelligence exhibited by the average undergrad at the school I'll be attending.

I decided to get on-campus housing for the next year, and I was assigned to what is apparently the most "social" graduate student apartment complex. I know that for many undergrads living in dorms, "social" basically means beer and loud parties, but I suspect the definition is different for graduate students (anybody care to enlighten me as to what social grad student living is entails?). I understand that a lot of socialization in grad school revolves around alcohol, or at least alcohol-serving establishments. There is a graduate student bar close to my assigned apartment, and I'm guessing that's where a lot of conversations between grad students take place. I don't drink (at least, not yet), but I probably wouldn't feel uncomfortable just getting a non-alcoholic drink and chatting with others at the bar. However, I don't think I'm allowed to do even that, as the bar's website specifies that entry is allowed only to students age 21 or over. By the time I turn 21, I'll likely have moved to off-campus housing. I worry that this closes off yet another social activity to me. So most all of the other grad students would be out of my age range, the undergrad scene isn't very appealing to me, I'm legally barred from entering bars, I've got no experience with dating to speak of, and just thinking about all this is very daunting. Do I just cross my fingers and hope that something magical happens during the next five years? Accept that I'll just have friends but no girlfriend? Find some other way of meeting people? (But what?) Was deciding to go to graduate school a major screw-up?

ekans the confused

[WornOutGrad]

Hi all,

I am a regular here on the forums, but I'm posting under a different username to preserve my anonymity. I don't mean to offend anyone with my post, but I am deeply sorry if I do. If you could give me your outside perspective on this, I would be eternally grateful.

This fall, I will be enrolling in a science Ph.D. program at a very prominent university in a large urban area. I skipped the last few years of secondary school, entered college early, and am now graduating at 19. While I've made many friends (both among my similarly-aged peers and with more traditional students) at my undergraduate institution, I have never been in a relationship. I wouldn't say I'm particularly weird, and I try to be a genuinely nice person, but I'm a bit socially awkward and have been told I need to work on my self-confidence. (I'm fine on paper, but when I talk, I often can come across as emotionless or just a babbling idiot.) Most of the students on my undergrad campus are out of my age range (average age for undergrads here is 25), and I guess I just didn't "hit it off" with those who were younger. I'm now concerned about what might (not) happen in grad school and beyond. I don't want to be alone forever!

I'm not planning on hanging out with the undergrads too much during my graduate studies (though I do have a few friends who are currently undergrads at/near the school I'll be attending). I've never been one to partake in heavy drinking, loud music, or wild dancing, so I'm ruling out the undergraduate party scene as a possible social avenue. I've lived with my parents throughout college, but I don't imagine that I'd change my social patterns much as a grad student--even when I lived at a large undergrad university while doing a summer research program, I avoided going clubbing or partying with some of the other interns. And I think that even if I were to talk with some of the undergrads, they'd likely find me to be somewhat dim-witted (you know, with my definitively-non-Ivy League et al. college education) compared to the intelligence exhibited by the average undergrad at the school I'll be attending.

I decided to get on-campus housing for the next year, and I was assigned to what is apparently the most "social" graduate student apartment complex. I know that for many undergrads living in dorms, "social" basically means beer and loud parties, but I suspect the definition is different for graduate students (anybody care to enlighten me as to what social grad student living is entails?). I understand that a lot of socialization in grad school revolves around alcohol, or at least alcohol-serving establishments. There is a graduate student bar close to my assigned apartment, and I'm guessing that's where a lot of conversations between grad students take place. I don't drink (at least, not yet), but I probably wouldn't feel uncomfortable just getting a non-alcoholic drink and chatting with others at the bar. However, I don't think I'm allowed to do even that, as the bar's website specifies that entry is allowed only to students age 21 or over. By the time I turn 21, I'll likely have moved to off-campus housing. I worry that this closes off yet another social activity to me. So most all of the other grad students would be out of my age range, the undergrad scene isn't very appealing to me, I'm legally barred from entering bars, I've got no experience with dating to speak of, and just thinking about all this is very daunting. Do I just cross my fingers and hope that something magical happens during the next five years? Accept that I'll just have friends but no girlfriend? Find some other way of meeting people? (But what?) Was deciding to go to graduate school a major screw-up?

ekans the confused

The only thing I'm concerned about is you going in so young that you miss out on some of the best years of your life. Grad School is a lot of hard work, and at times, it requires you to forgo other avenues of personal development (such as hanging out with friends, a part time job, and involvement in student organizations), which are very important at someone your age. I'm a much better person now than I was when I was 19, but it was because I had the time to adjust my bugs. I think people at times over glorify finishing high school/college early; while it makes you somewhat of a young prodigy, it takes your youth away immaturely.

With that said, most of the struggles I'm feeling now in Grad School are a result of burnout, after being in school for the past 21 years (I'm 26). So you have the youthful energy needed to get through it. You'll do fine, just remember to take some time for yourself and enjoy being young! Don't let grad school steal that from you!

Best wishes!

[poco_puffs]

This is the shotgun approach to advice, so I'm sorry if it seems disjointed...

Don't be ashamed of your age, which is also going to mean avoiding a constant self-deprecating humor that constantly points it out. I know a few people who used to do that, and it's really a fine line between "Hey, I accept the fact that I"m a little younger and it does make me different" and "Hey! Look at me! I'm young! Don't judge me! I'm young! (nervous soliciting laugh)" Just a smile, and a quick explanation that you skipped some years should be enough to explain your age, but there's really no reason that your age or your slightly different path through school should be the center of any prolonged conversation at first. There are lots of other interesting things about you, right? So don't let people and first impressions just define you as "the young one."

Example: There are two younger people in my program (not quite as young as you) who come under the average by a few years, and they're the same age. One refers to their age quite often, and one doesn't. As a result, one of them is rarely thought of as being "younger," because people didn't find out until later.

Good move on the on-campus housing. Grad students still drink a lot of beer, but the loud parties and late hours are toned down quite a bit. Y'all are in it to win it at this point, you've made it through undergrad with good enough grades, people are all working with a similar academic workload, so the general study and living habits are going to be far more moderate, at least as far as I've seen around my own campus. Take advantage of low key hanging out on- and off-campus. It's probably more talking and food and mellow-ish music than the undergrad parties you've seen, but the conversations can still get pretty lively.

If you're a nervous talker (like me) here are some strategies: Don't be afraid to take in the atmosphere before participating. Watch and listen a lot. If you find yourself babbling/rambling (don't we all), finish up your sentence and then ask a question to give the other person a chance to talk and maybe relieve some of the pressure on you. In fact, asking questions will be a great way to endear yourself to people, especially people who have been in the area/school for longer than you, and you might get some great information. You also might hear about how everyone else gets nervous, and feels out of their depth, and sometimes just feels awkward as all hell.

Don't worry about not making it out to the bar, because there are probably going to be plenty of over-21 grads who still don't go to the bar all that often. Some of us have been of age for quite a while and we hardly drink at all. Alcohol consumption is not that reliable an indicator of age, though your ability to restrain yourself from getting drunk is going to be a fairly reliable indicator of maturity, so taking it easy (if you do start) is an excellent idea. In fact, here's a pro-tip: If you start drinking, be VERY VERY cautious about the amount. Specifically limit yourself to a number (one or two at first), because once you hit three or four, having one more doesn't seem like a bad idea anymore and that, sir or madam, is when the fireworks happen. And by fireworks I mean crying, fighting, vomiting, and passing out in the street. I speak from experience.

Edit: Aaahhhh! The typos! They burn!

Edited May 28, 2011 by poco_puffs

[squaresquared]

Join clubs. Most cities have clubs of unlimited variety if none of the uni clubs interest you and you want to meet people outside of the school environment (movies/bowling/exercise/running/sports/hiking/crafts/gamers etc). Many cities also have 'under 30' clubs (or other age groups) where single people of the same age get together to do fun activities (they are not dating based, just to make new friends, but of course you could make a romantic connection).

Lots of people don't hang out at bars and enjoy drinking, so I really don't think there will be an issue with you meeting people. Even if you hang out with people who are drinking, if they are decent people they won't pressure you to drink. Sure they might say something like 'don't you want a beer?', but they won't be forceful about it if you decline (or make you feel stupid for declining). Also, if you do find a group of friends who are the legal age, while you aren't, I'm sure they'd be willing to do non-bar related activities, so that you can actually be included and not cast aside.

Edited May 28, 2011 by squaresquared

[hopelesslypostmodern]

Hi ekans!

I can sort of understand where you are coming from. I am also going into a Ph.D. program straight from undergrad. While I am a more typical age for someone finishing undergrad (22), I am aware that I will most likely be the youngest person in my program. I am also a bit socially awkward, but I'm beginning to realize that most of the time I feel more awkward than others perceive me to be. I think poco_puffs' advice about not making a big deal about age is probably good. Most likely, if you don't make a big deal out of it, others won't either.

Also, from personal experience, I agree with poco_puffs' advice about alcohol. I began drinking around your age, and when I first started, I only drank in situations where I felt safe and around people I was comfortable with. I also limited the number of drinks I would have. I still don't drink that often and tend to only have one drink (occasionally two, but never more) when I do. One drink tends to loosen me up a bit and feel more comfortable/less awkward, but allows me to remain in control and aware of myself and my surroundings.

I'm sure you'll be fine once you get used to your new surroundings.

[thesnout]

While your in school try to experience as much as you can (while studying too of course...hehe). I know you said you didn't want to hang out with undergrads but it's good to surround yourself with people of different ages and those close to your age.

Don't focus too much on making friends and/or finding a girlfriend. Just let things happen natually. Not everyone drinks in grad school. My friends who finished grad school weren't drinkers and they had a great time. I'm a non drinker and I'm sure next year I'll have fun too.

You have youth on your side so don't let anyone bring you down. Good luck with the PhD, you'll do great and fit right in.

Definitely take some risks and go outside of your comfort zone. I agree with the other posters who said to join clubs. It's the fastest way to meet people with similar interests. Try off campus clubs too to broaden your horizon and grad school experience. I'm not a social butterfly so I always find a club to join to meet new people. I hope what everyone says has helped.

[far_to_go]

Hi ekans,

I dealt with a similar issue in college- I started at age 16. Since I took 4 years to finish college, did an MA, and then took some time "off" to work, I'm no longer the young'un in my PhD cohort, but I have been there. A few tips:

- As others have mentioned, don't draw attention to your age constantly! Ideally, people should be surprised when they find out - "Oh wow, you're only xx years old? Really?" - rather than tired of hearing you mention it all the time.

- On social awkwardness: don't just find one person that you're comfortable with and attach yourself to that person's elbow at all social gatherings. The youngest person in my cohort is pretty socially awkward and tends to do this to me- even though I like her, I don't want her shadowing me everywhere. Mingle widely and don't be afraid to stand by yourself and just take in the scene for a bit. You're a big boy/girl now.

- Don't worry too much about the alcohol thing. Not all bars card at the door. I'm sure you'll be able to get into plenty of places and just order a Coke. And if you do start drinking, take it slow and easy. And no, grad student social life does not revolve purely around alcohol. In my program, lots of social gatherings do feature alcohol, but conversation is the real purpose of the events.

- Since you mentioned that you tend to babble, keep in mind that you have two ears but only one mouth; try to listen twice as much as you talk. Ask others about their life experiences and genuinely listen. This is one of the simplest and easiest ways to get people to like you, no matter what their/your age.

Best of luck!

[President]

I was always the socially awkward one. Very introverted in a way. I seriously recommend you hanging out with some asian women.

[singlecell]

I seriously recommend you hanging out with some asian women.

Huh??

[Armadilla]

I have a very practical approach to the whole "socially awkward" aspect-- why don't you enroll in some acting classes?I've been doing acting and public speaking for over 5 years and I've seen so many people becoming a little more open, extroverted, and confident after taking any "Method"-related acting classes (such as Meisner technique, in other words, anything by the acting "classics" such as Stella Adler or Lee Strasberg). Those classes really teach people how to be less self-conscious and more communicative because they show you how to "read" and understand other people and their emotions and feelings at the moment better.

I would also recommend taking dance classes-- salsa, merengue, bachata etc--anything that makes you less self-conscious and helps you "read" and understand the movements and expressions of another person. Good luck!

[runonsentence]

I seriously recommend you hanging out with some asian women.

Um. Really?

[runonsentence]

For the OP: I actually had a colleague in our master's program who was your same age when she arrived. No one ostracized her, and no one thought any less of her for it: we recognized her for being damn good at what it was she came to do (write fiction).

Being as young as you are isn't so common, it's true, and I can understand your anxieties, but I think my best advice is to try not to let it make you self-conscious. The less you make your age a big deal, the less likely it is to actually become a big deal.

I go to the bar fairly regularly, but I also enjoy low-key hangouts with my grad school friends as well. I spend a lot of time just hanging out in my apartment (or a friend's) with movies or board games. Take every opportunity you can when you first get there (especially during orientation, if you have one!) to reach out and grab a cup of coffee or suggest a low-key hangout with the peers you meet. Hopefully your living situation will be a great opportunity to do that.

Suggest a one-hour study break in the common area, maybe, or making a meal together with some of your new peers in a common kitchen. (Food = awesome way to bond. And cooking together is easier and more fun!)

[ogopo]

First of all, take a deep breath. Don't worry that you're 19 and you've never had a girlfriend. I don't think I'm terribly socially awkward but despite some dating, I didn't enter into a relationship until I was 22. Everyone is different and everyone can find someone good for them but you have to be ready to be in a relationship. I know it's cliche but you'll find someone when you're ready.

I HIGHLY recommend that you join some clubs. If you really want to meet women it might be good to join a dance club But any club will do. Find something you are interested in (or think you might be interested in) and it will help you to open up to the world, better your social skills and will help you to connect with people in a non-academic way.

Joining a club will also help you to keep balance with your studies. Although you are young, if you only focus on school, you could very well burn out. Start to enjoy life and the rest will come!

Good luck

[ekans]

Thank you all! I really appreciate y'all taking the time to provide your insights.

I ask about the issue of age here because of the relative anonymity of The GradCafe, but I definitely try to avoid talking about the issue of age with people I don't know well, and it usually works pretty well (I pass for a 22-year old).

I guess I'm just wondering how to go from "book smart"-ish to "street smart." I've been teased about not having a girlfriend, but I guess it's not nearly as bad as social pressures make this out to be.

[StrangeLight]

I guess I'm just wondering how to go from "book smart"-ish to "street smart."

get out of the library and onto the street. the only way to get any street smarts is to actually go outside and live. you won't learn it in a book and you won't learn it on an internet forum. you'll find many graduate students (and even professors) still have plenty of book smarts and a real lack of street smarts. it's not something that comes with age, it comes with experience, so you have to be willing to put yourself out there.

you're only 19. it's actually pretty normal to have never had a girlfriend yet. a friend of mine in undergrad was/is gorgeous. she was actually a professional model, mostly did runway. she hadn't even kissed a boy until she was 19, never had a boyfriend until she was 19. you'd think guys would line up to date her, but it just didn't work that way, and it's got nothing to do with how fun she is (very), how smart (very), or how attractive (very). she met someone in undergrad eventually, and while you've already been through your undergrad years, you were younger. even if you were ready to date then, you probably seemed too young to all the girls you were around, even if they were only a year or two older. that's no fault of your own. there's a big difference between 16 and 18 or 20 and 23, especially when the girl is the older of the two. if dating is important to you (rather than just important to the people that tease you), go out of your way to make time for activities that you know people your age will attend. join campus clubs. find a running group or a yoga class. volunteer. it'll take time away from your studies, but in grad school, we should ALL be scheduling some time for ourselves and our hobbies anyway, just to stay sane. tailor your hobbies to things where you'll be around people closer to your age. things will happen. 19 is still very, very young in the grand scheme of things and, really, there is no rush.

[President]

Um. Really?

Yes.

Asian women studying abroad from a third-world country are easier to pursue and to maintain for several reasons.

[qbtacoma]

Yes.

Asian women studying abroad from a third-world country are easier to pursue and to maintain for several reasons.

If you're going to generalize about half the population of an entire continent, I suggest you do better than that. C'mon - lay out those reasons for us! Pretend we're stupid and we don't understand what you are trying to imply.

[singlecell]

Yes.

Asian women studying abroad from a third-world country are easier to pursue and to maintain for several reasons.

This is foolish and the comment distracts from the OP's problem.

[runonsentence]

Yes.

Asian women studying abroad from a third-world country are easier to pursue and to maintain for several reasons.

Dear Silly One,

I was not asking you whether this really worked. I was asking whether someone on this board (presumably a grad student) could really be so stupid and insensitive as to post something like that. And as the daughter of an "Asian from a third-world country," I'd also like to ask you to kindly go stick your head up your rear.

Sincerely,

runonsentence.

[LJK]

I'm not planning on hanging out with the undergrads too much during my graduate studies (though I do have a few friends who are currently undergrads at/near the school I'll be attending). I've never been one to partake in heavy drinking, loud music, or wild dancing, so I'm ruling out the undergraduate party scene as a possible social avenue. I've lived with my parents throughout college, but I don't imagine that I'd change my social patterns much as a grad student--even when I lived at a large undergrad university while doing a summer research program, I avoided going clubbing or partying with some of the other interns. And I think that even if I were to talk with some of the undergrads, they'd likely find me to be somewhat dim-witted (you know, with my definitively-non-Ivy League et al. college education) compared to the intelligence exhibited by the average undergrad at the school I'll be attending.

Hi ekans,

I think that this quoted paragraph reveals some misconceptions/generalizations you have in your head that don't necessarily reflect reality.

First of all, not all undergraduates are drinking/clubbing/partying machines. I didn't drink until I was 21 and only regularly when I was 22 - I was older than most of my friends and wasn't going to drink alone. Instead, we were the kind of people who showed up to and even ran university events. There are plenty of undergraduates out there who had a similar mindset to you in undergrad and I know I wouldn't have a problem with being friends with them now even a few years into grad school. I won't rule all undergraduates out based on not particularly liking the loudest and rowdiest.

Second, why in the world are you, a 19 year old almost grad student, convinced that you aren't as smart as the undergrads at your grad institution?!? That is a truly bizarre lack of confidence from my point of view. If you think an ivy education would be important to these people, I'm guessing that means you are attending an ivy for grad school? So you will be getting your phd from an ivy but you don't think that you can be on par with people getting BAs from the same institution? I think this lack of confidence is what you need to work on. I'm sure that you are fantastic in many ways, have your insecurities like everyone, and probably have your share of social awkwardness like the rest of us. You need to own who you are and not put too much value in something like where your undergrad happened. I think this was the only part of your post that screamed immature at me - most of my 'owning' of myself and who I am has happened 21+. I don't mean that cruelly at all - social and personal development progress somewhat independently of academic development and it can be seen in the way you are approaching this issue. It is fine that you aren't as mature as a 22+ graduate, but I think that could be a social limitation for you with more mature graduate students who are past these issues, at least at this level of concern.

For you, I think having a mix of grad and undergrad friends may actually be best. Socially and academically you are at different places of development and there isn't likely to be many people in a similar circumstance. Having a range of friends who relate with different parts of your life could be a really good thing for you. Join clubs that interest you regardless of whether they are undergrad or grad. I know it will feel awkward for you to not quite fit age-wise with the grads and to not quite fit academic-standing wise with the undergrads but that also means that you are uniquely in the position of having a claim on both groups. Don't shut out potential friends just because they didn't skip a few years of school! Maybe look particularly for a club or two that already has a mixture of grads and undergrads in it - you wouldn't be an outlier but a bridge crosser in that situation!

Anyway, hope that helps and good luck!

[Pleiades]

I also started college when I was 16, but luckily, having two majors led to me taking 5 years to graduate (yeah, I'm the only person in the world who was happy she didn't graduate in 4 years, lol). Now I'm 21 now and starting my PhD in the fall. It's refreshing to finally be 21, because people have finally stopped going into shock when they realize how young I am. It really is all about how confident you are and how you conduct yourself. I think everyone else has given you good advice that I would echo. There's no need to bring up your age too often, unless people ask...and at that point, they'll probably just be surprised to find out how young you are because they'd have thought you were older.

The main thing I want to say is that LJK brings up a great point. Don't discount undergrads as potential good friends. Not all of them party like crazy, and they can be a great source of friendship. I plan on being friends with people in my grad program of course (and already really like the people I've met from visits), but your friendships from undergrad can be very fulfilling. I definitely want to stay in touch with the wonderful friends I've made from my old university. I also recently became good friends with a FRESHMAN who is starting at my university too, because we have mutual friends...it's weird, but hey, she's awesome and fun to be around. Also, loads of people who go to prestigious universities aren't douchebags about it; I truly doubt the undergrads would care that you didn't go to a university as highly ranked as your new institution. You already know that age isn't all it's cracked up to be, since you were able to get so far (props!) despite being young. Similarly, one's year in college (whether it is grad or undergrad) is also no indicator of his/her worth as a friend.

Sometime I would recommend is to be sure to make time to have fun. One thing I do worry about is that since I've been so busy in college for years and will continue to be a student for years, I'll be missing out on important experiences in life (during what are supposedly the "best years" of my life). But I don't think graduate school is any reason to forego fun. Take road trips on breaks (after doing the bulk of your studying beforehand so you don't get behind). Go to concerts. Walk around your city. Appreciate nature as you hike and go camping. And do all of this in amazing company, with friends (and/or a significant other) whom you love! Even though my past few years of undergrad have been stressful, I made the decision to make time for more of these experiences, and I've now really come to appreciate life in college.

Good luck; you can do this! And it's going to be fantastic to be only 24-27 by the time you graduate with your Ph.D.! Imagine getting a tenure-track job before 30...that'd be one accomplishment.