WornOutGrad

I wish I could just do a comp and get it over with. I can't stand research anymore and I don't want to go for a PhD. A comp seems like it would be a good option to keep this thesis from dragging on.

I've done therapy, and I will do it again when I get back to school from my internship. It has helped me in the past. I even take medication for it, but it doesn't help much.

Hi Dal, First off, thank you so much for your quick response. You seem to be on fire today First answer: I honestly don't know where I'm at anymore. One day my advisor tells me that my work is almost done and that I should start writing, the next say she starts changing things around and almost seems annoyed/confused that I am writing. At this point, I'm just trying to say screw it, and write, because it is somewhat motivating to see my thesis take form, but then she changes things again, and all my writing goes out the window. She has done a poor job at giving me an idea of where I'm at, should be, or even the purpose of this project. It doesn't even feel like my project anymore. At this point, whatever gets me out the door quickest is what I'm trying to do. I wonder every day if that involves putting my foot down and saying "look, I've worked my butt off on this, and I need to be wrapping up on it. We both know that this is enough for a thesis (you have told me so multiple times yourself!). These questions/issues/whatever should have been asked months ago before I started writing, and I don't have the time/energy/willpower to re-do this for the umpteenth time." The only reason why I don't do that is because of the implications, but I can't spend the next year on this... it needs to be winding down so I can write/defend, etc. I'm not even planning on going to a PhD, and so while I would love this to be perfect, I'm taking on that philosophy that "a finished thesis is a good one." Especially at the master's level! My supervisor does not take people leaving her group well. She's had several students (out of the few she has ever had, including me) leave her group, and she has badmouthed all of them (I know two of them personally, and they were more than just in their actions and more than professional in the way they did it too, which makes me question my advisor). While all that have left have been very successful in their next steps, I don't see this as a matter of starting over. If this does not work out, than it just wasn't meant to be. I have a pretty good rapport with many of the other profs in my department (many who often check in with me to make sure that she is treating me well actally), and so I know they would have no hard feelings towards me if I left her group. My biggest problem with her is that I never know what I'm going to get from her... she can be the sweetest, most constructive, most helpful person I've worked with, only to turn into an absolute hate filled wrecking machine the next day. She can love my work one day, and put me in the dog house over it the next. It's too bipolar for me! Any good progress I make is usually counteracted with having to do damage control shortly after. I really have discovered my passion while in Grad School and it's education... specifically climate education. I feel that most scientists are too busy doing research and communicating their findings with other scientists that the general population are left with politicians telling them what to believe, and this creates a lot of confusion/false thoughts/ etc with the matter. I see my career taking on more of a spokesperson from the scientific community to the public on climate change. I'm still figuring out how this would take shape, but I don't think a PhD is necessary. I just want to be happy with my decisions.

I'm sure this is pretty common in Graduate school, but I also understand many others who love grad school. Honestly, I hate my life in many ways because I made the decision to go to grad school. I'm starting my third year in a MS program, and I have lost all ambition, desire, focus, and hope. I just want to be done, but I have no energy left to finish. It's clear that my advisor does not care one bit about me, and cares even less about my career goals. All she wants to see is me go on to a PhD, which I have absolutely no desire to do. I couldn't imagine doing this for another 6-10 years in a PhD! I've told her that many times, and while she will sound accepting at the moment, it's clear that she just hopes that I will come around, and honestly, I think she passively-aggressively looks down on me because I don't want to go for one. She changes things on me thesis-wise almost every week (including changing my topic on me THREE DIFFERENT TIMES in the past two years), and it's clear to me that I will never have long-term success with her. It just seems like I can never satisfy her, and it's to the point where I'm both terrified to send her anything, and I also just wonder "why bother?" This summer, I've been working a pretty awesome internship which had really pumped me up for a while, but now, after seeing renewed disinterest/disdain/hostility from my advisor, I'm more discouraged than ever. I really can't take this much longer! It's gotten to a point where it's almost impossible to get out of bed in the morning, and when I do get up, the only thing I look forward to is the day ending, and being able to go back to bed. However, the more I read on here, the more I feel like I'm screwed. I am going nowhere with my thesis, and I have lost all energy to push through it. At this point, I just want to walk away. But I realize that it will just screw me. However, I can't just rot in my program for a lot longer (not to mention that I'm getting married next year), and any attempts to jumpstart this have been met with complete failure and deeper depression. Don't worry about me wanting to kill myself or anything (I've felt that way in the past), but I seriously just want to jump on a train and get as far away from Grad School as possible. I don't see any way out anymore. Either I give up, and burn a lot of bridges (not to mention the thousands I've gone into debt for this over), Try to push through and probably end up deeper in depression and dispair (and debt), likely to have my advisor give up on me sometime and deal with the fallout of that. Try to acceed to my advisor's vision of me, which then means going on to spend another 6-10 years of my life in a PhD I can't afford, don't want, and will likely rule out many of the job opportinities I do want (because PhD's often close more doors than open), Change advisors which would likely be a disaster in my ways, or, I don't know what else to do? I think going to Grad school was good for me in many ways, but now I'm at a point where I don't see this ending well. Because of that, I've lost all motivation and hope. I just wish I had been wiser in selecting my school, advisor, etc. Additionally, I wish I have tried to a more professional/coursework masters since I almost despise research now. Sorry for the rant. I just don't know what to do.

Hi Fuzzylogician, Thank you so much for your reply! Your advice is excellent! In reply to your questions, there's good news and bad news about my situation. First off, I just want to get the degree (actually an MS, but I don't think there's much difference at the masters level ), and use it to find a job teaching at a community college. I have no intentions of going further into academia. The bad news is that after two years of working with this lady, I've determined that this is just how she's like. The purpose of my internship as I've mentioned is to pursue my thesis research, with the endorsement of my advisor and the host/supervision of a scientist here. While the scientist here has been FANTASTIC (I want him on my committee; he's gone above and beyond what I would have hoped for and I would be honored to have him evaluate my thesis!), my advisor has practically left me out to dry. The only time I've heard of her mention me was in bragging about me interning here for the summer. Both my supervisor and I have been spending the whole summer piecing together great work for my thesis, and my advisor has expressed no interest in looking at it or providing feedback. It's clear that it's an out-of-sight-out-of-mind issue (i.e. She's not paying me, so she doesn't have to put up with me). That's how I see it, and based on my past with her, I feel that this is the issue. The good news is that where she lacks in support, others have made up for it. Our department chair (who is also DGS) is extremely supportive of graduate students, and I've had good feedback and encouragement (to the point of sympathy actually... there have been documented issues with my advisor in the past) from at least two professors in addition to the department chair. I also have tremendous support from my supervisor over here. The problem is that I can't do anything until my advisor checks off on it... which she is pretty much refusing to do. I am pretty much gridlocked right now. I wish I could just go around her, schedule the defense, and go with what I have, but that's not possible (not to mention, while I'm pretty much done with this lady after graduation, I'll need some kind of positive reference from her and doing what I just mentioned would probably make her a mortal enemy). The only other thing that has changed is that I have taken a TA position in the fall. She mentioned that while it might delay my graduation until spring, that she would support me either way... only to cut my funding after I accepted the position (even though the told the chair that she would still fund me). I guess the problem I have here is that she has had me grade/sit in on/answer student e-mails for her before (I did everything other than lecture) and she had no problem with it taking away from my research. I mentioned that I want to teach for a career and so experience prior to graduation is very necessary in this world. I guess I wonder if she is doing this to get back at me for wanting to teach.

Where do I begin, I'm a MASTERS student (not a PhD) finishing up my second year. I am sort of in a tough place right now. Before the Spring semester ended, my advisor seemed interested in my thesis and in helping me finish. I'm really trying to finish in the Fall, because I'm getting married next summer. I've made tremendous progress this summer as a visiting graduate student at the top research lab in my field (the purpose of the internship IS for my thesis), but my advisor has become absolutely aphethitic to helping me whatsoever. I'm not asking her to spend copious amounts of time on my work, just to look at it for a few minutes and give me feedback. A few weeks ago, she e-mailed me with a list of new things to do for my thesis (even though she told me in May that my work was about finished), and she told me that with these changes, my work would be "scientifically robust for publication." I did what she told me to do (and more), updated her, and her response was virtually "I have no interest in looking at what you have done, or read your thesis." It's becoming clear to me that she isn't interested in helping me graduate, just getting more publications for herself. She recently screwed over my colleague in a similar manner, AFTER HE DEFENDED!!!!!!!! My internship also provides the advisor with a one week visit, which she is doing next week. I asked her if she would be willing to look at my intro and methods sections and provide feedback, and she said no, because she will be too busy meeting with all of the scientists here (even though the purpose of her visit is SUPPOSED to be to look at my thesis work, meet with my supervisor here, and help me develope a plan going forward). At this point, I have no desire to do any more work, because it's clear that she isn't going to provide me any feedback or help me. What's the point in working on this stuff if it's meaningless. I need to put my foot down or I'm going to be in my MASTERS forever! I'M GETTING MARRIED NEXT SUMMER, and I need to move on!

I'm going to try to not make this a rant, but I'd really like your thoughts about this. While I completely get the "Boss-Employee" relationship between advisors and students in Grad School, I don't think it's that black and white. I've always thought the relationship between advisor and student was critical to helping the student achieve their goals and providing both support and supervision to the student. Of course, the advisor needs to get something out of the relationship too (hence, why they pay you), but I guess I've always wanted to believe that ultimately, the advisor should have the student's best interests in mind. I've realized that this isn't the case with my advisor. She promised me a cetain monthly income, and I've never even received close to what she promised, in spite of her praise of my progress and results. This semester, she made me get a grader job, simply because she didn't want to pay me as much, and then got frustrated when I didn't have any work to do for it and thus did more research and wanted to get paid for that. I think she makes up department policies in terms of what I can get paid/should get paid for (mainly because all the other professors in my department have said something completely different), and it's just getting to a point where I'm draining more money than I'm getting in (I'm already having to take out student loans while I'm here, so this makes it worse!). To complicate things, I wanted to teach a class next semester so I could gain teaching experience (I'm hoping to become a community college teacher) and get a more reliable source of income, but she's trying to talk me out of it, saying that I should focus on finishing my thesis next semester, and promising me the same income she has promised before as an RA. I personally don't know that I believe her, and I'm not sure she has my best interests in mind. I really hope to become a teacher some day, and I think having experience while I'm still in grad school would be a huge plus, if not a full blown necessity. I think all my advisor wants me to do is go on to a PhD (which I have no interest in doing... I want to have a life!), and even though I've constantly impressed my goals and what I want to get out of this program (this is still MY education and MY future), she tries to pigeon-hole me inter the whole PhD-doing research for the rest of my life track. This isn't an issue of meeting requirements. I'm doing well in all my classes and, as far as I know, she is happy with my research. I just think that, instead of encouraging me to do what is best for my future, she is trying to force me into what she wants me to do for my life, and, seeing as she isn't paying me what I'm supposed to be getting paid, I feel less and less of an obligation to humoring her goals for my future (again, I'm not talking about requirements here). I'd love your thoughts. There are two that I expect, and so I'll address them right now: 1. "Get used to it... that's life": I agree, I expect having to work with and for a lot of people who don't have a shred of my best interest at heart. But this is still school. What I'm doing here is trying to set myself up for a good career, and while having a happy advisor is essential, I also need to make sure that I get what I need to get out of this experience, even if it goes against her wishes for me. Ultimately, that's why I'm here! That's why I moved away from my girlfriend (now fiancee) and my home for. I didn't move here to make my advisor happy, I moved here so I could get the education and experience I need to secure a better future. 2. "Why haven't you changed advisors then?": It's too late to do that. I'm less than a year from finishing my degree, and switching means having to start over with someone else. I've put too much into this to have that happen. Honestly, I do feel stuck.

No, not fearful at all. If someone wants to call me out on my review, they have the right to. As long as they respect my right to give it. However, these reviews are supposed to be ANONYMOUS. As for the whole not giving an A for C work... that's why the education of other countries is advancing well beyond our country. Grade inflation is a crock of $hit, and I'm not afraid to admit that! It's an insult to my education, and to the education of millions of Americans. Learning stuff isn't too hard if you apply yourself, no matter what level it is. God help anyone who takes my courses.

Wow, quoting bible verses on me, huh? I wrote nothing on that eval that I haven't or wouldn't share in person. The problem is that very few people in this world are able to differentiate constructive criticism from destructive, and thus take every form of criticism negative. I am no worse than the people who talk smack about people behind their backs and then do nothing about it. I'd rather be upfront about issues than pretend they don't exist. That's how cancer kills. With that said, what in my incident would be considered "self-inflicting"? I provided an honest, fair evaluation that many people are unwilling to give anymore because of politics. I did nothing unethical or improper, and I'll sleep easy tonight knowing that. I think if people in this country cut off the brown nosing and were just honest and constructive, we would get back on the right track. Instead, everyone just kisses up to the person above them because they think that's going to get them ahead. Brown-nosing only gets you so far, having skills is what gets you farther.

What I meant to say above is not that I think the 1-5 scale is stupid if anything below a 5 is considered bad, it's that I'll be a lot more careful in how I use these evaluations in the future. But I still refuse to give an "A" for "C" work. That's what's wrong in academia now. You know how many dumb@$$ quizzes I have to grade because professors let that crap slide.

Thanks for the posts guys. As for the whole "never below a 4" thing, I personally see it the same way I do grades. If you are only going to give good students A's and bad student's B's, then what's the point of C's D's and F's? To me, A five point scale is that, five points. I don't consider anything below a 5 to be searing, and I don't even see 2's or 1's as necessarily condemning either. To me, it's simply a review of "What you are great at" vs. "What you need to improve at." In other words, the interpretation of the scores seems to be really subjective to me; a "4" is still really good, and so is a "3" even. I only give "2's" or "1's" to those who need to improve, which my advisor does in some areas. I was grateful that she did not grill me about giving her low marks. I just tried to be fair. As for helping her out in a sticky situation, I'm completely willing to do that too. If there is anything I can help this lady out with, whether it is a character reference or just moral support, I will do that.

Hi Everybody, I'll just shoot straight. This morning, I just got my first, concentrated dose of academic politics. Here's what happened: Last semester, I took a class with a professor who has some serious strengths (organization, useful and relevant assignments, etc), and some serious weaknesses (approachability is the main one here). The class was overall good. When it was time for us to do our student evaluations, I filled out mine fairly and honestly, highlighting both the strengths and weaknesses of this particular instructor, knowing that their career could hang in the balance. I did this because I'm a christian first, and then a grad student next (actually, I'm a fiance, then a good friend, then a grad student... I know, I should be kicked out for that lack of priority alone, huh). But I gave this instructor "5's" where she deserved them, and "2's or 1's" where she deserved them. Here's the kicker though, this professor IS MY ADVISOR (and a collective gasp fills the room... I know, dramatic, huh?). I don't feel bad at all for giving an honest evaluation of a person whose opinion I care about (even to the point that I was near suicidal when she called me a waste of money once), and it was only in a constructive manner. Okay, now fast forward to today. The moment I get to my office, she asks me to her office, closes the door, and then grills me on what I put down. She stated that there was evidence that someone had changed the evaluations, and she needed to know if there was any area that I marked her highly on. She didn't get mad at me for my feedback or anything, but wanted to know if I marked her high on anything, so she could use it as evidence to say that her evals were doctored. THIS WAS THREE MONTHS AGO, so I don't remember what I gave her. But I honestly did tell her the areas that I would give her high marks, and I even asserted that. But I feel in an extremely awkward position. I'm not a big fan of that whole "team player" mentality if it means I have to compromise my ethical and moral beliefs. I will be honest and objective in all situations, and if any employer has a problem with that, well then I don't want to work with them anyway. That goes for this situation too. I'd rather throw this away than my principles and ethics, so I don't feel bad about what I am doing. With that said, I feel extremely awkward and a little scared. With only nine months to go until I graduate, this is the worst time for something like this to happen (well I guess it's better than right before I defend, but still). I guess I want to know what I should do, and how screwed am I really. The truth is that I'm not willing to lie or cheat in this situation. Even if it means poverty, I'd rather be at peace with my soul than rich and troubled.

Yeah, um, if any advisor controlled my life, I would leave immeadiately. I think I let the fear of her control my life! But I also need to keep in mind that this is MY education and MY life. While I completely recognize my advisor's role in my education as well as the resources she makes available to me, that's only part of what has made my graduate education possible. Very, very well put! I have to admit that I'm getting close to that right now.

My advisor scares the crap out of me! Seriously, I am terrified of this lady! Is this the case for anyone else on here too?

Oh, and BTW, there is NOTHING wrong with being motivated to do household chores, or anything else non-grad school. Something tells me that when your motivation kicks back in (and it will ) that those things will take a back seat, and so it's good to focus a little on them if needed (or desired).

Oh God yes! This is EXACTLY where I am at right now. I'm a 2nd year in a Masters program, and I'm set to be done by December... and my motivation to do ANYTHING is kaput! I'm through all of the entry issues of Grad School (all of the prereq's, understanding the programming languages I work with), and I've even co-authored a paper with my Advisor, but I'm in somewhat of a rut right now. The funny thing is that I just got engaged a few weeks ago (to someone I've been with for 8 years... so it's a big deal), and I really thought that having that to look forward at the finish line would motivate me... but no. Honestly, I've been working hard, but I just can't seem to really get my work focused, and frankly, I've terrified to show any of it to my advisor because she will probably think it's crap (yeah, I'm also afraid of my advisor... but that's another story). I'm just starting to wonder what is needed right now. Do I need to take a break, do I need to drop out, am I doing just fine and don't realize it, or do I need my ass kicked? All I can say is that I'm in a fog right now, and it's frustrating! I wish I could offer advice, but I hope knowing you are not alone at least helps. Best of luck getting out of your funk.

Seriously! You guys are nerdier than even me !!!! Have you ever seen 'The Big Bang theory"???? We're nerdy, lOl!!!!!!

Here's where I get a little preachy... One of the things I'm really fed up about Post-College education is that everyone treats it like a hybrid of a Career/Job and Prison... Mainly because of how much of an impact a name (or a negative reference that is attached to that name) has... which is also ridiculous. The truth is that this is YOUR education, not your advisor's or your department's education. Granted, your advisor is investing in you, and so you need to be honest and fair with them, but you do need to remember that ultimately, you are there for YOU, not your advisor or your department. I think that if more grad students thought that way, there wouldn't be as many horror stories that are so common on this and other boards. Again, you need to be fair with your department. If you decide that a PhD is not for you, then discuss it with the necessary people, but in the end, make the decision that is best for YOU!

Two things: 1. My program is funded, BUT I still need student loans to survive. I've found the income I make to be very unreliable. 2. Honestly, that last statement is probably the #1 reason why I don't want a PhD. Time is extremely valuable. I think the Eric Carrieras of this world truly don't appreciate that, and that's why they blow every waking second in the lab and expect their poor grad students/postdocs to do the same. I'd rather have a life than a PhD.

I am currently in a Meteorology M.S. program. After a year and a half of doing it, I've realized that I like the classes, and the teaching/TA duties, but I really don't care for research, especially research/academic culture at this level. I'm also pretty burnt out. Well, ideally, Grad School is supposed to be all about research, and everything else is supposed to be a nagging formality. For me, I really feel like its the other way around. Unfortunately, the culture in my department is very pro-research and pro-sending students to PhD programs, which is something I DON'T want to do. I feel like a complete loser because of this. Is a Masters degree worth anything, or should I just give up because I don't want a PhD?

I did not write the syllabus, the professor did... BUT, there is a fairly strict plagiarism policy on it. I guess for me, it's such a hard pill to swallow, because I worked my hardest in Undergrad to avoid plagiarism, and there are many diligent students in the class... I think if I, or the prof, or the school is going to be so lax on it, than what's the point. We are only hurting the students and the school by letting this slip under the radar. I think academics get so caught up in their research and department politics that they completely forget that undergrads, many of whom are paying thousands of dollars, count on them/us to provide them with a quality education. Frankly, this is one of the many things about academia that is making me sick to my stomach, and why I'm only sticking around for a masters.

I'm not quite sure that this is the forum to go to, but I guess I will give it a try... This semester, I'm TA'ing for one of my advisor's undergraduate general elective classes. The responsibilities involve grading, interacting with the students, answering questions, as well as teaching a few lectures. We require that all of the students in the class submit their assignments online through a learning site (sort of like Blackboard, Desire2Learn, etc). Well, the site has a built-in plagiarism detector, and I've noticed that roughly every assignment turned in, there will be one or two blatant cases of plagiarism. My procedure, with the discretion of my professor, is to give the student a 0 on the assignment if it's their first offense, and then to warn the student not to do it again. Well... as of the recent assignment, I now have a repeat offender. Honestly, I feel insulted and distraught by the decision, especially given the lame-brain excuse that the student gave with the first offense. I've brought the matter up to my professor, and while she seemed impressed that I've really been pushing the issue with this class, it seems like she has no interest in bringing the case to the school, which is what would be in accordance with the school's policy in the first place. If I were the professor, I'd kick that student's butt out of my class so fast, it wouldn't be funny. Like I said, I'm honestly insulted by him. I don't want to press this issue with my professor too much, but I think letting this student get away with just another "0", even though it hurts his grade, is too lenient. Especially since there are so many hard working students in the class who don't resort to cheating. What should I do?

Excellent! That was me in college... and I miss it! It did so much good for me in college to take that time to go to church, plug into a solid bible study (the final two years, I ended up being the leader of the study ), and take time out of my day to focus on God! I don't think that's something you should have to give up in Grad School... and something I'm trying to make it a point to emphasize again in my life. I wouldn't have survived college without God, and there's no way I'm going to get through this without him!

For me, Religion is a very important part of my life, one that I have allowed to slip by the wayside over the past year in Grad School. I'm starting to realize that, for me, my faith is too important to put aside, even for the time-consuming, soul-crushing nature of Grad School. I'm curious if anyone else on here see religion as important, and how they balance faith with school.

I've been following this thread from it's beginning, and now I'll throw my hat into this ring. This particular issue is what is keeping me from pursuing a PhD and going for a professorship in my future. I'm a 2nd year masters student at a pretty lower-tier Meteorology department (which has actually turned out quite a few success stories). I made the mistake of reading the Carriera letter last year and had a nervous breakdown because not only was I mentally unable to have the same kind of "work until you drop" attitude that Carriera expected of his students, but I was unwilling to as well. I've found that grad school should not be like that and definitely doesn't have to be like that. I have the most hardass adviser in my department, and she is constantly encouraging outside activities and a good balance. She is definitely all business, but she will take a moment every couple weeks to ask me how my long-distance relationship is going and about how I'm doing personally. It goes a long way to encourage me that it's okay and necessary to have other things in my life other than school. Now on the other hand, I have a colleague (and roommate now), who obsesses over school. He goes to the office without fail 7 days a week and is there later than everyone else. For him, it's all about school, and I see the toll it's taking on him (there's a long story behind this, but it's not fair to him if I told it here). I constantly get anxious and feel guilty on Saturday when I'm getting ready to go for a hike or a bike ride or just exploring and he's getting ready to go to the office, but I'm beginning to realize that it's okay to do things outside of school. I think finding that balance is key for true, long term success and happiness. I'll finish with this: I've thought a lot about what I would want people to say about me when I die. I'll admit, it would be cool is people were to say "WornOutGrad made this discovery... Graduated this many successful students... Was a successful scientist," but I'd rather have people say "He was a great husband... a great father... a great friend... and a great man of God [i'm a religious person]" a million times over, and if academia has a problem with that, I'll gladly walk out the door. Now with that said, my dream would be to wear both hats; to be a good scientist and a great person. Balance is the key!