MPP/MBA accepted applicants with little/no prof. experience

[kcstudent]

I'm currently entering my senior year of undergrad and trying to decide if I should even apply for the dual MPP/MBA programs in which I'm interested. I would, of course, prefer to attend a top 20 school, and the options are limited anyways for the dual program. Professional experience is highly preferred from what I've read on school's website and in this forum. What do you think it takes to compensate for professional experience? I do not come from a great school, having spent my first two years at community college and then transferring to a local school that's not all that well-regarded in the liberal arts. I've decided to stay a 5th year in school, since my scholarship extends that far, so I can get some more classes under my belt.

Stats

Anticipated graduating GPA: 3.7-3.85

Political Science & Economics majors; Business and Communications minors

1.5 years as Deputy Director of a state political party (first intern, then employee)

6 months doing legislative advocacy work for a non-profit (paid intern)

hopefully soon to be starting the student career experience program (SCEP) with the federal government, waiting on the background investigation clearance (will be p/t position)

Small policy fellowship earlier this summer

President of a political college organization

Other random service/political awards

1 paper published in my college's research journal

GRE scores TBD

Should I rack up $1,000 to apply to schools (usually $50-$80 per program per school) or try to gain some professional experience? I'm really hesitant to relocate to get a job right after undergrad, and there are really few jobs in the policy field in the state that I'm in, unless you're working as a legislative assistant to a state rep for $20,000 a year.. which is mostly constituent service anyways.

How important are letters of recommendation? Is it better if the professor or person of recommendation attended the school to which you're applying? What makes a good letter of rec?

When it comes to SOP, do schools want REALLY specific ambitions, like "I want to work for X organization in X position?" Or, are they looking for a more general idea of the area you want to study and what type of job you may want to have?

I would ask these questions to our faculty, but our departments are small and limited and most of them have minor or no knowledge about the MPP professional degree.

Ideally I'd like to do whatever it takes to get the most funding for grad school. Funding is very important to me.

Any help would be great. Thanks!

[Damis]

I'll also, eventually, be applying for an MPP/MBA dual degree. What holds me back from applying for any program now, however, is the fact that I have little to no management experience. While I've had some experience in regards to the public policy aspect, most MBA schools are looking for a little more management (at least those in the top 20). Twas a great idea to minor in business, as you're not a fish out of water. I'm going to have to take classes on the side to boost my quantitative/finance background to be more competitive.

Essentially, it boils down to this. If you have serious questions as to whether or not you'll be competitive (even after heavy research into chances) then odds are you'll reflect this in your application. Typically, the more experience you have, the better. That said, you can be proactive about this and simply call up the programs you're interested in, tell them your background, and get advice from them. Believe it or not, but it actually works!

Best of luck and I hope I helped!

Elevate,

-D

[fenderpete]

Can I ask you why you want to do an MPP/MBA? I think a lot of us applicants with a professional experience have taken a while to decide what we want to focus on, so it'd be good to hear what you're hoping to do and if you're sure it's what you want to spend your life doing

[alireuter]

I'm currently applying to the MBA/MPP program. I have 3 years of work experience (in public policy). However, I understand that MBA's accept students with different profiles and look forward to diversity so I'm not that worried that my work experience is not strictly on "management"

[method]

You can apply to MBA programs with no "management" experience, but if you have no "work" experience then you're facing a tremendous uphill battle. Since you're in Missouri, you might want to check out Olin Business School at Washington University in St. Louis. WashU is one of the few schools that embraces applicants straight out of undergrad, and about 15% of the enrolled class are in this pool which is called "Young Leaders." The Young Leaders pool numbers are 3.6 GPA, 722 GMAT. And a little hint with Olin: take the GMAT, and if you score 700+ use it in your application, and if not, use your GRE score.

The trouble with Olin, however, is that there's no way to get a single-campus double in public policy. You could do 2 years at Olin, and then a 1-year masters at somewhere like Harris or Maxwell though.

If you're in KC, especially if you're at UMKC, send me a PM if you want to chat about the MBA side.

[MYRNIST]

a little snarky, no?

How is it snarky? Almost all reputable business schools don't accept students right out of undergrad for the exact reason Fenderpete mentioned: most 22 year olds have little experience in the professional "real world." Both their field/career choice and dedication to it are suspect. Without experience, how do they know that what they think they want to do is, in fact, the right choice? How can they claim their "dedication" to a particular discipline without having worked in it? MPA schools are slightly more lenient, but still massively prefer candidates with actual professional experience. Keep in mind, both b-school and MPP/MPA programs are NOT academically oriented. Their goal is to put alumni in careers, not on tenure track.

If there is one piece of wisdom this forum should staple onto the foreheads of every new poster, it is "get professional experience before grad school."

Edited November 29, 2011 by MYRNIST

[MYRNIST]

you could have emphasized the "it's a requirement" part more than the "how do you know what you want to do" part.

i would totally disagree with why you think it's impossible for someone to know what they want to do without working in the field first. i've known since i was about 5 years old what i want to do, and it hasn't changed a smidgen in the intervening 20 years.

the reason for getting work experience is it's a bureaucratic hoop to jump through, not because i need it to decide what i want to do with my life.

Here's the thing though: why should I (or more accurately, an admissions committee) believe you when you say you know what you want to do? Or that you would be good at it, good enough for a graduate school to accept you? There have to be some hard facts - you spent X years doing it, you have been at Y organization, you have had Z experience - to provide proof that you are as sure of your path, and dedicated to achieving it, as your words claim. I don't think it's fair to label this as a "bureaucratic requirement" akin to making sure your visa is in order or FAFSA filed on time. There's no law saying grad schools and employers have to prefer people with work experience. The reason they do is for the reasons I outlined. I totally empathize with how much the "must have experience, but no wants to give you it" complex sucks. But that doesn't change that relevant experience is like the most fundamental quality in how organizations assess candidates, and for good reason.

If the "staple on forehead" line came across as condescending, I apologize - I was going more for humorous.

Edited November 30, 2011 by MYRNIST

[fenderpete]

you're not wrong - i'm in my present situation primarily because i lacked experience at the time of applying for work-experience-based programs - but you could have emphasized the "it's a requirement" part more than the "how do you know what you want to do" part.

that was the source of why i thought it was snarky. substantively you're of course correct - i know that better than anyone - but that's not how you came off. i would totally disagree with why you think it's impossible for someone to know what they want to do without working in the field first. i've known since i was about 5 years old what i want to do, and it hasn't changed a smidgen in the intervening 20 years. but the reason for getting work experience is it's a bureaucratic hoop to jump through, not because i need it to decide what i want to do with my life.

frankly, i viewed your way of expressing your point as more than a little condescending.

I'd go for tattoo it on your forehead rather than staple it.

You may well have known what you wanted to do, but in my field (international development) the reality is often very different from the idealised or dreamed-for reality of doing the job. Unless you can answer questions like 'how did you feel when the project you worked hard on failed through no fault of your own' or 'can you be satisfied living on your own in the field for a year' or 'how do you feel about bucket showers when it's freezing outside' I'm really not sure you can be considered prepared for this career.

This isn't meaning to come across as snarky either (do we need a snark-o-meter for this sub-forum?) but these are things you don't get from wanting to work in development. The dream career you picture may well be horrifically boring, personally unrewarding or too challenging in reality.

For example, when I graduated I absolutely loved International Crisis Group (I still do) and thought no job would be better than working for them. Having worked with them in the field now, I know that while the work they do is hugely important and valuable to other NGOs (and in-country stakeholders), I'm not cut out to spend all my time in the field researching. I'd rather work on building local capacity in a more hands-on way. That is something I definitely couldn't have told you prior to graduating or even prior to getting out to the field after an HQ position.

Maybe that comes across as condescending too, but the fact that we have been places/done things means we can speak from a relative position of authority to people who are yet to have their first field experience. MYRNIST is speaking from the kindest place in the world - trying to prevent someone from falling into a rather large professional pitfall.

[beefmaster]

It might not be what you need, but the admissions committees will need to see it. You can't just say "my dad worked for USAID for 40 years"

[fenderpete]

To me, it is a bureaucratic hoop, and not a jot more

Just don't turn into one of those people who has zero empathy with people who work in the field because you've never done it.

Not lecturing, I mistakenly thought you were asking for advice.

Edited December 7, 2011 by fenderpete

[NObama]

I hate to be naive but I had assumed a degree like International Relations would need professional experience, whether it be internships or full time. Experience is experience and valued immensely from what admissions in various schools tell me.

Not criticising anyone but Captain Crunk, how do you appear so confident in a) your chances to get into a top school (if that is your end goal) know that this is what you want to do (seen so many people change directions in their career)

Edited December 7, 2011 by NObama

[NObama]

That smiley face is supposed to be b!

[JAubrey]

You couldn't possibly have thought I was asking for advice, because nowhere in any of my posts did I do any such thing. You rather saw fit to give a lecture, which is what you in fact did.

@beefmaster lol, I speak 2 critical foreign languages fluently, have lived overseas for the last several years and for long periods before that, have high grades and scores etc. that was what I was relying on to get me in last time. As for work xp, I'm "working on it"

Anyway, this is turning into a waste. Safe to say, last time I ignored the work xp requirement, this time, won't make same mistake. As to the starter of the thread, take from this exchange what you will. I think it actually puts these issues into pretty sharp relief. Also, regarding the question of whether or not you should acquire work experience before applying, I believe the collective wisdom of the internet is unanimous in favor of the former.

CaptainCrunch, if you were the "rockstar" you make yourself out to be, you'd have gotten into a master's program last year. I work with some people direct from undergraduate and others who have master's and indeed some went straight in. These people had all the things you claim to and even lacking some of them, yet managed to get into MSFS, WWS, SIPA and SAIS. So perhaps with your rather bemusing arrogance, you could ask yourself whether your failure last year was entirely your lack of experience (as some others had much the same and still managed to get in) or perhaps it was your attitude?

[MYRNIST]

I actually think CaptainCrunk is a visionary exposing the unknowable nature of the universe, and irrelevance of material attachments. He is so committed to working in int-dev that he doesn't even need experience in int-dev to show the degree of his commitment to int-dev. That whooshing noise we're all hearing? That's the sound of a Buddhist koan flying directly over our unenlightened heads. Open up baby birds, mama's about to drop some wisdom.

[CaptainCrunk]

I actually think CaptainCrunk is a visionary exposing the unknowable nature of the universe, and irrelevance of material attachments. He is so committed to working in int-dev that he doesn't even need experience in int-dev to show the degree of his commitment to int-dev. That whooshing noise we're all hearing? That's the sound of a Buddhist koan flying directly over our unenlightened heads. Open up baby birds, mama's about to drop some wisdom.

okay okay, i'm not trying to stir up trouble. peace out

[fenderpete]

You didn't really need to delete all your posts from this thread Captain Crunk. I think all of us were simply trying to point out that living overseas, plus having a close relative work for USAID is not the same as doing the job yourself. USAID has changed HUGELY in the last 10yrs, let alone 40yrs and entry-level now is very different from when the whole US approach to foreign affairs let FSOs and USAID officers employ a far more fun 'run and gun' attitude. Not so now.

The last thing I want to see is people going into int. dev. or taking on an MA before they know it's exactly what they want. It's a huge investment of time, money and emotional capital. If you are one of those people who knows exactly what they want out of their career without doing it before, good luck and you have our blessing. On the other hand I can't emphasize enough the difference between living/travelling abroad and having to get up and drag yourself into work every day even if you're suffering from giardia, your staff are stealing from you or the government has decided to kick your NGO out of the country with no prior warning. 6 months or a year of field experience now could help you avoid choosing a speciality in int. dev. that you won't want to work in 2yrs from now, let alone 15yrs.

[Helpplease123]

I have 3 years work exp almost but in events (1yr), management (1yr) and operations (1yr)...quite a bit of voluntary work since high school and been working part time in an elderly persons home since Sept but still, no clear public policy or public admin work. I've found some programs though that if you don't meet their professional experience level, they may still let you in but just require you to complete an internship while you're there - try and find ones like that and you'll have a better shot. For me they've been USC Price and either Wagner or SIPA, did a quick search but can't find which...although this is for MPA so not sure how relevant will be for you...

Also just to warn you, an MBA application is around $200 not $80 like other grad school programs.

if you're staying in school an extra year can you not get a part time policy research position? Also about you SoP - yes i think a clear goal will definitely help, especially considering the lack of experience.