Fall 2012 Applicant Chit Chat

[TMP]

This word may account for the different experiences among members of this BB who are studying history. IME, an emphasis on learning and skill development have helped me--as well as those undergraduates whom I've advised--to navigate the application process much more than a focus on politics. This is not to say that politics do not matter, they do.

But I think focusing on politics may lead a "this is a crap shoot" mentality. This frame of mind comes at the expense of developing approaches that enable applicants to understand other dimensions of the process. Most notably, the benefits of approaching the process with an air of confidence.

My $0.02.

Yes except many people who are not familiar with the workings of academia and faculty and do not realize that politics are involved. So they forget that they can have the very best application but their POI may not be able to have much say because the more powerful faculty members are getting what they want and demand it. This is another aspect of where life and work experiences come to play- as undergraduates, we are shielded from the realities of the "adult world".

Not trying to dispute you but the on-going narcissism is just from what I've observed over the last 3-4 years on these boards. I'm not suggesting that the whole process has to be crapshoot and be down about it but people need to understand that there is so much that they have control over and be realistic that they can be very competitive candidates but still not get in due to some reason beyond their applications.

Even my adviser still reminds me from time to time when I mutter something about how it's not fair...

[bachr1989]

OSU, Minnesota, and K-State applications are submitted.

4 more applications left.

Here's hoping!

[goldielocks]

Congrats, bachr!

I have officially finished revising my statement of purpose. Working on modifying it for each school this weekend. Then I'll let it sit for a few days and come back to it.

And the writing sample draft is done. Taking a day or two away from it, and then revising it some more.

The only thing I haven't drafted/revised yet: the book review for Yale. That's this week.

[sandyvanb]

I am having a hard time getting my transcripts to upload for NYU... Grrrrrrrrr. I also misread what MSU wants, a personal statement and career statement, I have a lot to do this week... I have to spend the rest of the night grading so I have to ignore these issues!

[oryantin]

hey everyone, a friend of mine doing his phd in the states told me that schools care earlier applications more, and these applicants have more chance to get admitted. is this true? my files will arrive at schools very close to the deadlines. does it lower my chance? second, i plan to retake gre within two weeks. do schools tolerate a score that came after the deadline if all other materials arrived on time?

[PhillyPhan896]

orient: from my experience, it does not matter as long as you submit the applications by the stated deadlines. some programs encourage you to submit them earlier, but that is more for their convenience than anything else. i wouldn't worry about it.

is anyone here applying to upenn? if so, any suggestions about choosing an appropriate 10-page writing sample? i'm definitely struggling with this one, especially since it doesn't seem like they want you to include an abstract if it's an excerpt from a longer paper (which mine is).

also, i'm finding that editing the writing sample to 20 pages for columbia and harvard is super tricky/annoying. i don't have a question about it, just wanted to vent. arrgghhh!

[Hopin'-n-Prayin']

PhillyPhan,

I just uploaded my wriiting sample to Penn- 10 pages out of a 23 page paper I submitted last summer (which was the basis for my thesis).

First half of Page 1- Intro

Second half pf Page 1 through the top of Page 2- Historiography

Middle of Page 2 through the end of Page 8- Primary source analysis

Page 9-10- Endnotes.

No Bib! No cover page!

I cut a lot out...I had to be ruthless and I had to smooth out the new transitions. It took about 30-40 minutes altogether.

Not quite sure why they want so little, but its there rules so...

Hope this helps...

Edited November 20, 2011 by ADMITedlyLucky

[sandyvanb]

I am applying to UPenn, I cobbled together ten pages from my thesis. I'm still working on it... The 20 pages for Harvard weren't bad because one of my thesis chapters was 17 pages once I took out the images and reformatted the margins.

[StrangeLight]

no, sending your application in right at the deadline will not lower your chances of getting in. most admissions committees don't start looking at the applications until a week or two after the deadline.

as for the GRE, it depends on how late your scores will get to each school. different schools have different rules, and some of them will consider your application to be incomplete. they may or may not actually reject you based on that alone. it depends. i would contact each school individually to ask them if they will accept your GRE scores after the deadline. you don't have another option now anyway, since you can't change the date of the test at this point.

[TMP]

Penn cares a LOT about excellent writing. If your writing isn't up to par by page 10, they aren't going to want to read the rest of the paper. They're about being succinct as possible. Can you make your papers so?

Orient- do not worry about your applications. Take your time. Of course, it may mean that your POI can have access to your application sooner than later but eventually the POI is going to read them all and choose a few people to nominate.

[Loimographia]

I have a similar question about cutting down writing samples. My full thesis is ~38 pages, but contains two separate (but crucially related, naturally! ) arguments: the first is a very close reading of paleography, and is fairly technical and dry, but is a really creative approach to the text (well, in my opinion, fwiw). The second argument is about the historical significance of the text (i.e. more conventional analysis) but is more, i guess interesting to anyone who doesn't find the minutiae of paleography exciting (almost everyone, i think?). Both reflect different strengths of mine, and I can't decide which one to use. I'm not sure whether the adcoms would prefer to see the originality of my close analysis, or the more conventionally entertaining sample. What do you all think? (Or am I overthinking this entirely and the adcoms don't care?)

[maeisenb]

I have a similar question about cutting down writing samples. My full thesis is ~38 pages, but contains two separate (but crucially related, naturally! ) arguments: the first is a very close reading of paleography, and is fairly technical and dry, but is a really creative approach to the text (well, in my opinion, fwiw). The second argument is about the historical significance of the text (i.e. more conventional analysis) but is more, i guess interesting to anyone who doesn't find the minutiae of paleography exciting (almost everyone, i think?). Both reflect different strengths of mine, and I can't decide which one to use. I'm not sure whether the adcoms would prefer to see the originality of my close analysis, or the more conventionally entertaining sample. What do you all think? (Or am I overthinking this entirely and the adcoms don't care?)

I like paleography! I don't have a strong view one way or the other, but showing paleography skills would seem to me to fall into the same category as showing language skills...

[Sigaba]

I have a similar question about cutting down writing samples. My full thesis is ~38 pages, but contains two separate (but crucially related, naturally! ) arguments: the first is a very close reading of paleography, and is fairly technical and dry, but is a really creative approach to the text (well, in my opinion, fwiw). The second argument is about the historical significance of the text (i.e. more conventional analysis) but is more, i guess interesting to anyone who doesn't find the minutiae of paleography exciting (almost everyone, i think?). Both reflect different strengths of mine, and I can't decide which one to use. I'm not sure whether the adcoms would prefer to see the originality of my close analysis, or the more conventionally entertaining sample. What do you all think? (Or am I overthinking this entirely and the adcoms don't care?)

Loimographia and others--

I understand that many of you are elbows deep in your writing samples and that this up close perspective makes it difficult to figure out what to keep and what to cut. My recommendation is that you take two steps back and consult works that you've read that somehow manage to simplify complex arguments without simplification.

In addition to suggestions I've offered previously (and therefore won't bore you with again), I recommend finding published lectures by established scholars in your areas of interest. These lectures often break down a life's work and/or a major work in progress into more accessible pieces.

Additionally, if you have a favorable relationship with a professor who has published recently a book and you've read that work, ask her if she's done conference presentations centering around the book. She may hand off to you a twenty page paper that provides a blue print of her book. Then, this paper could serve as a blue print on how to trim down larger pieces into a writing sample.

Throughout, keep in mind that this type of task is a preview of the work you'll be tasked to perform when you get into graduate school. So please do not try to look at the task as an isolated hoop you've got to jump through but as project that can help you think and write like a historian.

HTH.

[remenis]

I have a similar question about cutting down writing samples. My full thesis is ~38 pages, but contains two separate (but crucially related, naturally! ) arguments: the first is a very close reading of paleography, and is fairly technical and dry, but is a really creative approach to the text (well, in my opinion, fwiw). The second argument is about the historical significance of the text (i.e. more conventional analysis) but is more, i guess interesting to anyone who doesn't find the minutiae of paleography exciting (almost everyone, i think?). Both reflect different strengths of mine, and I can't decide which one to use. I'm not sure whether the adcoms would prefer to see the originality of my close analysis, or the more conventionally entertaining sample. What do you all think? (Or am I overthinking this entirely and the adcoms don't care?)

I like paleography a lot, but I think maybe to give better advice it might help to know more about what you use the paleography to do? As Maisenb mentioned, it can look like just language skills - are you (1) just reading the paleography and discussing the content of the document/(s), ie translating the paleography as you would a language, or are you (2) analyzing the mode of writing as a text in itself and making an argument based on what the specific aspects of the paleography mean?

I think either could be okay as a writing sample but the second above described case would be a lot more interesting to read.

HTH

[pudewen]

I have a similar question about cutting down writing samples. My full thesis is ~38 pages, but contains two separate (but crucially related, naturally! ) arguments: the first is a very close reading of paleography, and is fairly technical and dry, but is a really creative approach to the text (well, in my opinion, fwiw). The second argument is about the historical significance of the text (i.e. more conventional analysis) but is more, i guess interesting to anyone who doesn't find the minutiae of paleography exciting (almost everyone, i think?). Both reflect different strengths of mine, and I can't decide which one to use. I'm not sure whether the adcoms would prefer to see the originality of my close analysis, or the more conventionally entertaining sample. What do you all think? (Or am I overthinking this entirely and the adcoms don't care?)

I'd do the section that isn't just reading paleography. Have one of your letter writers (your adviser, presumably) talk about how good/innovative you are with it in a letter and focus your writing sample on something that develops an argument.

[Loimographia]

I like paleography a lot, but I think maybe to give better advice it might help to know more about what you use the paleography to do? As Maisenb mentioned, it can look like just language skills - are you (1) just reading the paleography and discussing the content of the document/(s), ie translating the paleography as you would a language, or are you (2) analyzing the mode of writing as a text in itself and making an argument based on what the specific aspects of the paleography mean?

I think either could be okay as a writing sample but the second above described case would be a lot more interesting to read.

HTH

Well, since you asked ^^ The argument I made involves authorship of the text. The previous scholarship on the source I worked with always assumed a single author. Most of the material in the text is from the early 14th century, but the handwriting is from the later 14th, so the argument has been that the source was compiled early 14th and then rewritten by a professional scribe later. BUT there's a discrepancy in the style of the first and second half of the text: the first half uses predominantly arabic numerals, the second half, roman numerals. So I argue this change is actually evidence of a second compiler from the second half of the 14th century, but that the handwriting of the second compiler was erased by the later recompiling by a professional scribe. So it's basically (I think) much more like your example 2, which is good (again, I think) but it's so wrapped up in Arabic and Roman numerals that I have to think that most people would find ten pages of it rather boring (nevertheless, I get way too excited when explaining it to people). It's not exactly "just reading paleography" but it is sufficiently complicated that my thesis adviser had me write up a 10 page appendix "map" to the text that lays out which pages are attributed to which compiler (which, obviously, I can't include with the sample).

So the technical half of my thesis is a lot of challenging the earlier scholarship and proving the evidence of the second compiler, and the second half of my thesis is then analyzing the differences between the two compilers historically (specifically, how their cultural identities were reflected in their writing, and how these identities reflect changes in merchant culture in the 14th century).

[TMP]

I have to agree with Sigaba about these writing samples.

If you're crunched, you have two options A) take a piece of a larger work and just present it as it is, leaving room for the intro (if it's not longer than 2-3 pages) or abstract so the readers know what they're going to read and finesse that text with more concise sentences. or put off your applications until next year (unless you have deadline after December 15th) just so you can cram your entire thesis into 20 pages.

It takes a lot of practice. Even I am still learning how to do it. You will be amazed once you've accomplished the task. For example, I just spend an hour reading 2 paragraphs (about 1 1/2 pages) very carefully to determine which sentences were important to keep as it is, which could be more refined/succinct, and which were really just "fillers". I was trying to cut 4 pages down to 3. And, guess what? I did it. It takes time, energy, self-criticism, and patience to do it. But when you are overwhelmed with 20 pages, it's hard to put all into perspective. So I suggest that you determine which sections appear to be a little too lengthy or weak and work on eliminating some of that.

You will get better at these things as you move further into academia. You will learn how to describe your project under 2 minutes to someone and get their attention right away.

I think what nobody tells you until you write a dissertation is that doing the PhD in history isn't just about doing research and reading the literature. It's about learning how to become a writer. You really should love to write to be able to complete the PhD well. If you told me 10 years ago that doing a PhD meant a lot of writing, I would've rejected the idea entirely. I hated to write. Now I love writing and am always eager to improve and learn the process.

Begin to think of yourselves as writers as you finish up your applications. If you have to go back and read some excellent academic writing to help you, so be it. Take the time. You'll feel a little less stressed out when you go back to the computer. You might feel just a little inspired.

[remenis]

Well, since you asked ^^ The argument I made involves authorship of the text. The previous scholarship on the source I worked with always assumed a single author. Most of the material in the text is from the early 14th century, but the handwriting is from the later 14th, so the argument has been that the source was compiled early 14th and then rewritten by a professional scribe later. BUT there's a discrepancy in the style of the first and second half of the text: the first half uses predominantly arabic numerals, the second half, roman numerals. So I argue this change is actually evidence of a second compiler from the second half of the 14th century, but that the handwriting of the second compiler was erased by the later recompiling by a professional scribe. So it's basically (I think) much more like your example 2, which is good (again, I think) but it's so wrapped up in Arabic and Roman numerals that I have to think that most people would find ten pages of it rather boring (nevertheless, I get way too excited when explaining it to people). It's not exactly "just reading paleography" but it is sufficiently complicated that my thesis adviser had me write up a 10 page appendix "map" to the text that lays out which pages are attributed to which compiler (which, obviously, I can't include with the sample).

So the technical half of my thesis is a lot of challenging the earlier scholarship and proving the evidence of the second compiler, and the second half of my thesis is then analyzing the differences between the two compilers historically (specifically, how their cultural identities were reflected in their writing, and how these identities reflect changes in merchant culture in the 14th century).

That actually does sound pretty interesting (at least to me) and I think, though probably technical, could be a strong argument.

But I think that Sigaba and ticklemepink are probably very right in that you should think about trying to combine your two halves into one concise argument (a very difficult task, I know). You were at least able to summarize the argument you made regarding the paleography and give one strong example pretty well.

[Simple Twist of Fate]

Just sent all of my applications off yesterday. I spent today nervously second-guessing myself... "Why didn't I triple-check everything, rather than just double checking?" But it's incredibly liberating to only have to worry about a full course load, two 10hr/week jobs, a girlfriend, finishing my thesis and a conference paper. Back to my regularly scheduled stress, I guess.

[goldielocks]

Congrats, Morgan! You must be relieved.

I am submitting my first four applications this weekend. WHOA!

How's everyone else doing?

[goldielocks]

Okay, my brain is tired, so this might be an obvious question:

Are we not supposed to submit a CV to UT Austin? I am uploading my materials right now and I'm either missing the instructions for a CV or it is not required.

[ReallyNiceGuy]

All of my applications have been gone for a few weeks. I've already received one acceptance. The acceptance came via email and, though it is to a school that was low on my list (to be clear, it was #8 out of the 9 to which I applied), the adviser I requested and received is literally perfect for me. So, I'm glad to know that I have somewhere to go; well, provided I receive some sort of money.

I also applied to attend Middlebury's summer language intensive and I was accepted. I'm not really sure how competitive that is though (does anyone know?). I've applied for all the scholarships and aid they offer, because I certainly cannot afford tuition there. Finally, does anyone have any experience with FLAS scholarships? I've been told it's next to impossible to receive them for funding the first year of graduate study.

Thanks a lot and best of luck to everyone!!!!

[Astarabadi]

hey everyone, a friend of mine doing his phd in the states told me that schools care earlier applications more, and these applicants have more chance to get admitted. is this true? my files will arrive at schools very close to the deadlines. does it lower my chance? second, i plan to retake gre within two weeks. do schools tolerate a score that came after the deadline if all other materials arrived on time?

I don't think so since the deadline is only so that everything is submitted. All the applications are then given to the admissions committee, which then sits in January/beginning of the new term to make decisions and go through applications. I might be wrong though...

[maeisenb]

Okay, my brain is tired, so this might be an obvious question:

Are we not supposed to submit a CV to UT Austin? I am uploading my materials right now and I'm either missing the instructions for a CV or it is not required.

That isn't completely unusual from what I've seen on some of my applications, although I can't speak to UT in particular. Is there space to break up what would be on the CV (publications, presentations, languages, etc.) or a place for additional information? That would do the trick.

[goldielocks]

That isn't completely unusual from what I've seen on some of my applications, although I can't speak to UT in particular. Is there space to break up what would be on the CV (publications, presentations, languages, etc.) or a place for additional information? That would do the trick.

There is a space for relevant employment experience, and one for academic honors. But nowhere for conferences, publications, etc. I sent an email and am hoping to hear back in time, because my CV is a very important part of my application package. I'd be so sad if I couldn't submit it.