Fall 2012 Applicant Chit Chat

[StrangeLight]

a couple things (i'm in procrastination mode. eff comps):

1. regarding teaching and education experience at US vs. european schools... european (including UK) PhD programs do not generally have seminars, or at least not what american schools consider graduate seminars. at a US school, you'll take courses with 8-12 (and sometimes more) other graduate students that, depending on the size of your department, may or may not be close to the general subject of your dissertation (like "race in latin america" or "18th century france"). at a UK/euro school, you will instead have independent studies with your advisor and maybe 1-3 other students, and the topic will be narrowly focused on what you're researching (like "travel account narratives in 19th century southeast asia" or "public health in early 20th century caribbean").

because graduate and undergraduate education are so fundamentally different, being a US-born student with a US undergraduate degree in no way prepares you to lead US graduate seminars if you get your PhD at a european school. in fact, the biggest gulf between the educational styles of US vs. european schools is in graduate training, so american schools will want a european PhD candidate to prove that they can advise grad students and lead grad seminars in the US style before they hire someone. it is a distinct transition from the european to US style (and vice versa) and it is often difficult to make. some US schools will take chances on people with european PhDs, believing that they have the ability to grow and adapt as mentors and teachers, but this whole conversation does put a european-earned PhD at a disadvantage compared to US-earned PhDs.

2. regarding interviews: read the department's website carefully. read their graduate handbook front to back. you do NOT want to ask anyone a question that could've been answered by reading their website. it looks bad. i recommend checking the department's course offerings and asking how often X seminar is taught. know something about the work of all of the professors you will be speaking with. ask if you'll get the opportunity to TA and how the TA assignments are determined. ask what sort of research funding the department can provide. ask about the publication rates and job placement statistics of grad students in general and grad students in your subfield in particular. REALLY important: ask what it's like to live in that city/town (it's an easy question and one people love answering, including profs). ask about grad student morale (all you need to do is check the "officially grad students" subforum here to realize that, often, morale is low). ask your potential advisor about his or her new work or next project. ask what people do for fun, ask if there's a good running trail or yoga studio or microbrew. beyond letting them know that you're smart, you want to demonstrate that you're nice and that you're a well-rounded complete human being with a life.

in terms of questions you will be asked, one of the softball questions (in their mind) is "why do you want to come here?" "because it's an ivy league" is not a good answer. good answers include "i'm interested in race and gender in latin america, and i feel like the latin americanists here ask the sort of questions i'm interested in answering in my own work. i like their approach to questions of social construction and inequality." or whatever. but link the answer of why you want to go there to your potential advisors' own research and arguments. "i want to live in new york" is a terrible answer. so does everyone. "i love history" is a boring answer. no one cares. they all love history. "i'm really interested in modern europe." of course, otherwise why would you want to write about it for the rest of your life? if you don't know the work of your potential advisors at these schools, then 1) why are you applying there? and 2) learn their work, learn about the types of questions they ask and arguments they make, and link your answer to that.

as far as clothing goes, dress business-casual. we're dealing with academics here. until you meet them, you don't know if they wear suits every day or jeans and tevas every day (my own department? jeans and tevas. profs wear sandals until there's snow on the ground). wearing a suit might put people off and make you seem like you approach history as a business. dress too informally and they may think you're not serious about making this your career. dress pants or khakis and a button-up shirt/blouse or a nice sweater never really offends anyone, but a power suit or jeans and a t-shirt might, and you never know what the department culture is like until you get there.

3. the matter of stipends: this is a VERY touchy subject. asking a professor this question is tough, because different students are offered different funding packages (you're not all treated equally in the same department), and a prof doesn't want to lead you to believe you'll definitely get fellowships or definitely only receive TAships. also, frankly, most profs don't know what their students' salaries are. i know that in my own program the profs were particularly shocked to learn that the cost of one credit (out of 30 in a year) is higher than our monthly stipends as TAs. so they have no clue. but you can ask if students usually receive or win research fellowships and dissertation writing fellowships, how well they do competing for national fellowships like the ACLS mellon or the SSRC.

odds are, on a campus visit, you'll meet with a few grad students for lunch or coffee. DO NOT ASK THEM HOW MUCH THEY MAKE. they don't all earn the same amount of money. some will have fellowships that pay a few hundred dollars more a month than the people with TAships. don't ask them what the normal incoming funding package looks like, because they're all different, and some people might be upset that they make less than others. it's a very sensitive subject. and if you ask it, they'll hold it against you (i've seen it happen) and if you decide to go to that school, it can take people a while to forget the uncomfortable situation you put them in with your seemingly innocuous question. so what can you ask? ask if the stipends are usually livable. ask if you'll need to take out loans to cover your expenses. ask if people can afford to keep a car. ask if it's easy or hard to get research fellowships that allow you to go abroad to use archives. grad students will then volunteer as much as they're comfortable with regarding how much they make.

because here's the bottom line on stipends: when you're accepted to a school, they'll tell you how much they'll offer you. it won't be a mystery. and if you don't get in, then who cares how much that school pays their students anyway? it really is none of your business what your fellow grad students make. you'll know the stipend amounts when the acceptances come in from the schools. then get a cost of living calculator and compare your offers. you don't need to make your future colleagues uncomfortable by asking them how much they make. it doesn't matter. what matters is how much that school offers you. again: DON'T ASK THEM HOW MUCH THEY MAKE.

[crazedandinfused]

Congrats to whoever got in at UNC!!!

Edited January 21, 2012 by crazedandinfused

[superfluousflo]

the trick to beating this waiting game would appear to be getting nominated for one of these fancy internal fellowships.

[Kelkel]

the trick to beating this waiting game would appear to be getting nominated for one of these fancy internal fellowships.

Word. How I wish I was apart of this highfalutin crowd.

[taybaxter]

Congrats to the UNC+fellowship admit. If UNC's History department is following the same schedule as last year, the rest of us UNC applicants should be hearing next week or the week after.

Edited January 21, 2012 by taybaxter

[superfluousflo]

So, I was rejected from Oxford, but Duke's basketball loss certainly dulls the sting.

[crater21]

So, I was rejected from Oxford, but Duke's basketball loss certainly dulls the sting.

Sorry to hear that superfluousflo! If it's any consolation, Cambridge is MILES ahead of Oxford, when it comes to the History faculty, and esp. when it comes to South Asian history. Their loss!

[superfluousflo]

Thanks for the reminder.

[Astarabadi]

a couple things (i'm in procrastination mode. eff comps):

1. regarding teaching and education experience at US vs. european schools... european (including UK) PhD programs do not generally have seminars, or at least not what american schools consider graduate seminars. at a US school, you'll take courses with 8-12 (and sometimes more) other graduate students that, depending on the size of your department, may or may not be close to the general subject of your dissertation (like "race in latin america" or "18th century france"). at a UK/euro school, you will instead have independent studies with your advisor and maybe 1-3 other students, and the topic will be narrowly focused on what you're researching (like "travel account narratives in 19th century southeast asia" or "public health in early 20th century caribbean").

because graduate and undergraduate education are so fundamentally different, being a US-born student with a US undergraduate degree in no way prepares you to lead US graduate seminars if you get your PhD at a european school. in fact, the biggest gulf between the educational styles of US vs. european schools is in graduate training, so american schools will want a european PhD candidate to prove that they can advise grad students and lead grad seminars in the US style before they hire someone. it is a distinct transition from the european to US style (and vice versa) and it is often difficult to make. some US schools will take chances on people with european PhDs, believing that they have the ability to grow and adapt as mentors and teachers, but this whole conversation does put a european-earned PhD at a disadvantage compared to US-earned PhDs.

2. regarding interviews: read the department's website carefully. read their graduate handbook front to back. you do NOT want to ask anyone a question that could've been answered by reading their website. it looks bad. i recommend checking the department's course offerings and asking how often X seminar is taught. know something about the work of all of the professors you will be speaking with. ask if you'll get the opportunity to TA and how the TA assignments are determined. ask what sort of research funding the department can provide. ask about the publication rates and job placement statistics of grad students in general and grad students in your subfield in particular. REALLY important: ask what it's like to live in that city/town (it's an easy question and one people love answering, including profs). ask about grad student morale (all you need to do is check the "officially grad students" subforum here to realize that, often, morale is low). ask your potential advisor about his or her new work or next project. ask what people do for fun, ask if there's a good running trail or yoga studio or microbrew. beyond letting them know that you're smart, you want to demonstrate that you're nice and that you're a well-rounded complete human being with a life.

in terms of questions you will be asked, one of the softball questions (in their mind) is "why do you want to come here?" "because it's an ivy league" is not a good answer. good answers include "i'm interested in race and gender in latin america, and i feel like the latin americanists here ask the sort of questions i'm interested in answering in my own work. i like their approach to questions of social construction and inequality." or whatever. but link the answer of why you want to go there to your potential advisors' own research and arguments. "i want to live in new york" is a terrible answer. so does everyone. "i love history" is a boring answer. no one cares. they all love history. "i'm really interested in modern europe." of course, otherwise why would you want to write about it for the rest of your life? if you don't know the work of your potential advisors at these schools, then 1) why are you applying there? and 2) learn their work, learn about the types of questions they ask and arguments they make, and link your answer to that.

as far as clothing goes, dress business-casual. we're dealing with academics here. until you meet them, you don't know if they wear suits every day or jeans and tevas every day (my own department? jeans and tevas. profs wear sandals until there's snow on the ground). wearing a suit might put people off and make you seem like you approach history as a business. dress too informally and they may think you're not serious about making this your career. dress pants or khakis and a button-up shirt/blouse or a nice sweater never really offends anyone, but a power suit or jeans and a t-shirt might, and you never know what the department culture is like until you get there.

3. the matter of stipends: this is a VERY touchy subject. asking a professor this question is tough, because different students are offered different funding packages (you're not all treated equally in the same department), and a prof doesn't want to lead you to believe you'll definitely get fellowships or definitely only receive TAships. also, frankly, most profs don't know what their students' salaries are. i know that in my own program the profs were particularly shocked to learn that the cost of one credit (out of 30 in a year) is higher than our monthly stipends as TAs. so they have no clue. but you can ask if students usually receive or win research fellowships and dissertation writing fellowships, how well they do competing for national fellowships like the ACLS mellon or the SSRC.

odds are, on a campus visit, you'll meet with a few grad students for lunch or coffee. DO NOT ASK THEM HOW MUCH THEY MAKE. they don't all earn the same amount of money. some will have fellowships that pay a few hundred dollars more a month than the people with TAships. don't ask them what the normal incoming funding package looks like, because they're all different, and some people might be upset that they make less than others. it's a very sensitive subject. and if you ask it, they'll hold it against you (i've seen it happen) and if you decide to go to that school, it can take people a while to forget the uncomfortable situation you put them in with your seemingly innocuous question. so what can you ask? ask if the stipends are usually livable. ask if you'll need to take out loans to cover your expenses. ask if people can afford to keep a car. ask if it's easy or hard to get research fellowships that allow you to go abroad to use archives. grad students will then volunteer as much as they're comfortable with regarding how much they make.

because here's the bottom line on stipends: when you're accepted to a school, they'll tell you how much they'll offer you. it won't be a mystery. and if you don't get in, then who cares how much that school pays their students anyway? it really is none of your business what your fellow grad students make. you'll know the stipend amounts when the acceptances come in from the schools. then get a cost of living calculator and compare your offers. you don't need to make your future colleagues uncomfortable by asking them how much they make. it doesn't matter. what matters is how much that school offers you. again: DON'T ASK THEM HOW MUCH THEY MAKE.

Thanks Strangelight, this actually really helps.

I guess asking about stipends is a touchy question with grad. students (I've received replies like "its sufficient" from people I dont know before. Some of my friends who are at schools I applied to have been kind enough to tell me the amount straight-up). Also, if faculty members don't have much of a clue then this begs the questions:

1. What makes you a candidate for FULL funding/more than others? Is it need? is it ability?

2. Who determines this amount, if not the professor/adviser and his or her recommendation to the dean?

3. Should you then only expect a definite amount to be offered to you when you get an offer of acceptance from the dean's office and not before? I mean, is it taboo to bring it up in the interview at all?

I ask this because some of us have families to support, and having a clearer idea would be better than just "its sufficient to live on" , esp. when coming from a single guy. See what I mean?

[dukelover50]

I think that it depends on the school and its also ability mostly. I also think that the entire committee that looks at applications makes the determination. And given the economy, it is NEVER taboo to bring up money.

[StrangeLight]

Thanks Strangelight, this actually really helps.

I guess asking about stipends is a touchy question with grad. students (I've received replies like "its sufficient" from people I dont know before. Some of my friends who are at schools I applied to have been kind enough to tell me the amount straight-up). Also, if faculty members don't have much of a clue then this begs the questions:

1. What makes you a candidate for FULL funding/more than others? Is it need? is it ability?

2. Who determines this amount, if not the professor/adviser and his or her recommendation to the dean?

3. Should you then only expect a definite amount to be offered to you when you get an offer of acceptance from the dean's office and not before? I mean, is it taboo to bring it up in the interview at all?

I ask this because some of us have families to support, and having a clearer idea would be better than just "its sufficient to live on" , esp. when coming from a single guy. See what I mean?

1. it is ability, not need. most programs (but not all) in the US only accept students they can fully fund, so it will be rare to get an offer of admission without any funding, or for less than at least 4 years of funding. but whether those years are all TAships or all fellowships or a mixture of the two will depend solely on the merit of your application.

2. the amount is determined by the university budget committee. your department and your potential advisor have nothing to do with the dollars and cents of your paycheck. absolutely zero. even if you ask them how much you'll get paid, they won't actually have a clue.

3. i would only "expect a definite amount" when you have your offer in hand. they usually tell you how much they paid someone in your position last year and they promise your stipend will be equal to or higher than that amount.

again: whether or not you, with a family, can live on your stipend is an important question, but it is one that CAN wait until february, march, and april, when you get your acceptances. you will have time to figure out if you can live on that stipend. asking profs won't be helpful because at best they'll say they don't know and at worse they'll guess and give you bad info. asking grad students won't help because they'll find it rude and it will create some unintentional bad blood with your future colleagues. you CAN ask grad students if the stipend is enough to support a family, or if any of them have families and how they manage with the pay. the problem is asking for the dollars and cents or what their split between TA and fellowship years looks like. it's bad form, and bottom line, you can just wait for the envelope with the actual offer in it.

[crater21]

Apologies if this question has already been asked here:

On applications, what is the purpose of asking where else you've applied? Is it possible that you might be rejected, simply because they don't think you'll accept them, if they give you an offer?

[Kelkel]

Apologies if this question has already been asked here:

On applications, what is the purpose of asking where else you've applied? Is it possible that you might be rejected, simply because they don't think you'll accept them, if they give you an offer?

I think someone here said that it's just to get data about who the school is competing for student for (correct me if that's not 100% right), but isnt used against the applicant at all.

One of my applications had 10 slots to pick schools. The first 6 or so had drop down menus where you could ONLY pick certain schools (like out of the top 20 schools). The other four slots you could write in schools. I had to leave about 2 drop down slots blank because I wasn't applying to anymore of those schools.

[crater21]

I think someone here said that it's just to get data about who the school is competing for student for (correct me if that's not 100% right), but isnt used against the applicant at all.

One of my applications had 10 slots to pick schools. The first 6 or so had drop down menus where you could ONLY pick certain schools (like out of the top 20 schools). The other four slots you could write in schools. I had to leave about 2 drop down slots blank because I wasn't applying to anymore of those schools.

Thanks for the reply. I hope you're right. I'm just hearing things that sometimes a school might not extend an offer of admission if they think that you are unlikely to accept the offer or if they don't think you will consider them seriously (based on the other places you are aiming for).

If they feel that you are a candidate who is likely to go somewhere else, they may not want to "waste" an offer on you. Just wondering if there is some truth in this. I have seen it happen in the job market (outside academia).

[Astarabadi]

Also,

I found this site to have some helpful information on those wanting to know more about grad-school interviews:

http://www.varsitytutors.com/blogposts/grad+school+interviews

[TMP]

Thanks for the reply. I hope you're right. I'm just hearing things that sometimes a school might not extend an offer of admission if they think that you are unlikely to accept the offer or if they don't think you will consider them seriously (based on the other places you are aiming for).

If they feel that you are a candidate who is likely to go somewhere else, they may not want to "waste" an offer on you. Just wondering if there is some truth in this. I have seen it happen in the job market (outside academia).

Remember, academia is very, very different from the non-academic world! Keep thati n mind!

While instutions know that money is a very important factor, it is not the sole factor because the adviser and program quality count just as much. There have been some people on this board who have chosen to forego higher stipends/fellowships for better quality advisers/programs and haven't looked back since. Take a look at last year's results thread.

One of my POI was very concerned that I'd go to X or Y instead of his program simply because they have more money. I told him that my career comes first and that means it's much more important that I have a program that meets my needs in terms of resources and X and Y don't. He seemed reassured once he learned what my priorities were. Like Strangelight suggested, he had no idea exactly how much his students were getting from his program but definitely knew that whatever the dollar amount was, the funding packages at X and Y were much more attractive.

If you have a family or spouse to support at the moment, you better have a long discussion with your spouse right now. Would your spouse be comfortable ing the breadwinner for the next 10 years? Will your spouse understand that after your five years of package is up, you're not going to konw where your income is going to come from and how much it will be? Will your spouse understand that there may be periods of unemployment while you write your dissertation/look for a job? Basically, in my opinion, do not go to grauate school expecting to be the breadwinner unless your spouse is also going as well and then that's just something the two of you will work together. There have been ugly break ups and divorces simply because the non-academic spouse couldn't deal with the lack of finances and understanding of how academia works.

[crazedandinfused]

Isn't Sunday afternoon just a lovely time for a POI to sit down and write an email full of good news to an applicant?

[telemaque]

Isn't Sunday afternoon just a lovely time for a POI to sit down and write an email full of good news to an applicant?

omg agreed.

[goldielocks]

omg agreed.

Chime!

[virmundi]

Chime!

Chime! Chime! ;-)

[taybaxter]

I have a feeling that this week I might hear something.

[goldielocks]

I have a feeling that this week I might hear something.

I also have a feeling that this will be a big week around this board. Let's hope so, anyway. Good luck to all of you... hoping everyone gets some good news this week.

[A Finicky Bean]

I'm still upset that my USC application was not being considered because the Grad Dept didn't put together all sets of transcripts (undergrad had maiden name) and so marked it as incomplete and thus didn't send it to the history department for consideration (or that is what I was told when I called, after seeing people getting responses here, by the lady in the graduate dept. Its been cleared up but there was a not-so-promising phone call to the hist. dept. (which was something the grad. dept. instructed me to do) which also included not very kind words to me for calling...

...I wrote about this before but then deleted it. But it is eating at me, mostly because the one lady was mean on the phone. My transcripts have been in since November and nothing online or in email ever said anything was missing. After that one random phone call, I checked on all of my schools to make sure that they had included the maiden-name transcripts with the rest (they all had).

*sigh*

[TMP]

Ugh, that's awful. You should demand a refund if possible.

[goldielocks]

AFB: I'm so sorry. That's awful. I hope you get a refund, too.