Fall 2012 Applicant Chit Chat

[TMP]

In reply to post #4526

TMP--

What factors kept you from being honest with your interests and plans during the previous two cycles?

Short Version

Hm, well, I think it’s hard for many of us to be 100% honest about ourselves when we apply and write our SOPs. We want to get in and fit in with the department so badly that we may be willing to conform our research interests and goals to that of the department’s. And this leads to a big list of schools that we apply to. SL's mentioned a few times that she applied to like 9 schools and if she had to do the whole process over again, she would've stuck to 3 programs that were perfect fit for her, where she could truly thrive with her interests and project ideas.

Long Version

You gave me food for the thought during my run this morning.

When I first applied, I had no European languages that would make me competitive for the European field. So I applied as a straight up Americanist even though half of my work would be based in Europe for historical background. Also, the idea of “transnational” history was still so new to me that I didn’t know how it would work for me and none of my professors seemed familiar with it. I liked comparative history but few people were working on that. I don’t think I was 100% happy with my SOP then and now I think it’s a piece of crap. Conformity, you might say, and lack of understanding/knowledge of European history as I was surrounded by Americanists.

Last year, I was in Germany and I was much happier learning about its history, language and culture. I also loved learning about immigration politics in Europe and just found it all so fascinating when I compared it to American immigration history/politics. The idea of comparative was a possibility but I still didn’t quite get “transnational.” With that, I split my applications up to US and European fields and really tailored each SOP and argued for a bit of comparative history. It was closer to “me” but not quite there yet. I did get into a program that would allow me to work in both US and European history evenly but no funding. So I turned it down.

Also, mind you, my life long passion had been widely considered as an oversaturated field. I struggled in my conversations with my POIs, convincing them that my proposals would add a new dimension to that history. POIs dismissed them and encouraged me to go back to US history as there were still gaps to fill (true). They also wanted to know how MY work would fit in with THEIR work, which was singularly focused national history. Also, this very topic tended to bring up less-than-cheerful subtopics and I was sure that my POIs were not interested in reading or supervising such a dissertation. Case in point: The exception was Indiana where it’s actually my POI’s specialty and there’s a reason why I was waitlisted there for 2 years and it had an excellent reputation for producing PhDs in that topic. I could have applied to UCLA or UNC Chapel Hill but the POIs there were no longer taking students. So I was really stuck seeking out relevant (tenured) POIs who were not experts in my special topic and I tried to emphasize the use of the European faculty for support. Sometimes this reassured them, but more than often not.

Finally, when I e-mailed with my POI after getting rejected from her program and all others, I just broke down in tears and said that I was completely at loss. I didn’t know what I wanted to do if the last two cycles failed. I tried being an Americanist. I tried Europeanist. I couldn’t find my niche and it just seemed like I might as well forget about doing the PhD altogether if programs weren’t ready for me or willing to accept my cutting-edge ideas. She said that i needed to try just one more time and would help me work through the application process. She sent me questions about my SOP last April so I answered them freely, putting down every single thing that was on my mind. She had been so approachable that I felt that I had nothing to lose by spilling my entire academic history (from my freshman year). One of the questions that really did struck my nerve was her rephrasing of “Whose works influenced you?” to “What historians have influenced you and why?” I had some books that influenced me but it was the people whom I had met and taken classes with who had a bigger impact on my way of thinking about history. So that really allowed me to talk about my courses, professors and interactions with other scholars. I really shined in my Latin American and comparative American history courses so I was able to talk about them and connect them with my ideas. Those classes tickled my lifelong love for exploring different countries and cultures under several themes. It was never the courses that were directly in my field as many would suspect. (Another reason why I didn't apply to Yale- I didn't think I could really do a book review and say that it was the MOST influential book for me).

The way my POI had framed her questions for me certainly made me feel like she genuinely wanted to know who I was/am. With this particular framework, my SOP covered such a wide variety of overlapping topics and stretched across geographical fields that would seem to appeal a lot of historians.

I figured that with this newly reworked SOP, I had nothing to lose by trying again one last time. Did it make it difficult for me to create a list of schools? Yes because at that point I knew exactly what I wanted to do and I really felt true to myself with my SOP and there were programs still in transition of creating that “transnational” field and many others have yet to create one. All of my programs, with the exception of Indiana, offered such an opportunity and I was quite pleased with my list, even if it had only 5 schools. I was happy with my choices of POIs (though I kind of wish I could have done Brown but no transnational field). If I could do this year all over again, would I change my list? Nah, I don’t think so. They were all just right.

I would say that this POI was really the best-kept secret. I truly feel lucky to have known her and have her full support as i know that there are tons, tons and tons of POIs who would be very unlikely to do this with any applicant. By being honest with myself in my SOP (and loving it) and having her genuine interest really kept me sane, much saner than I’ve ever been during the application process and waiting for decisions (even though I had the inkling of fear that she might find someone better!). That's why it was so easy for me to be hush-hush on these boards about applying this year and nobody realized it until I hinted something from Wisconsin and screamed that I had gotten in at OSU.

[Nordicllama]

depends on the bracket ... the "professional scientific investment" bracket has Baylor, Michigan State, Kansas and OSU (I will never add the article) and the funsie just for laughs has FSU (FEAR THE SPEAR!), UNC, Murray State and of course Baylor ... respect Perry Jones III children b/c in the immortal words of former Knicks great, Mark Jackson, "Momma there goes that man!" ... whilst I'm spouting off my picks I wonder when everyone else will chime in?

Wow you sure favor the 2 seeds. They're safe picks though, I must admit. And I went with two one seeds, a three, and a seven. I've got no reason to pick Florida, I just feel like it's Billy Donovan's time to shine again. If FSU plays with the passion that destroyed Duke and UNC, they're frightening. Kentucky is just solid and Davis is a beast. UNC is of course always the best team to ever take the court, consistently, year in and year out. As for your picks I think Baylor doesn't play consistently enough to get all the way. MSU is good but I think they're going to get overwhelmed by the offense power of many of the other teams. Kansas and OSU? I would be really tempted to take them as well.

[oseirus]

Wow you sure favor the 2 seeds. They're safe picks though, I must admit. And I went with two one seeds, a three, and a seven. I've got no reason to pick Florida, I just feel like it's Billy Donovan's time to shine again. If FSU plays with the passion that destroyed Duke and UNC, they're frightening. Kentucky is just solid and Davis is a beast. UNC is of course always the best team to ever take the court, consistently, year in and year out. As for your picks I think Baylor doesn't play consistently enough to get all the way. MSU is good but I think they're going to get overwhelmed by the offense power of many of the other teams. Kansas and OSU? I would be really tempted to take them as well.

1. I don't trust Coach Cal ... if history is any indicator he WILL screw this up, somehow say way ... and it'll be so fun to watch

2. Don't trust the seedings this year b/c some teams have some suspect seeds like NC State an 11-seed and Murray State a 6?

3. OSU has issues, I'll concede that but in their region they can really sneak in because of seeding

4. I trust Izzo nothing more, nothing less

5. Said this at the beginning of the year, I'll say it now: Harrison Barnes = Marvin Williams i.e., overrated

[Nordicllama]

1. I don't trust Coach Cal ... if history is any indicator he WILL screw this up, somehow say way ... and it'll be so fun to watch

4. I trust Izzo nothing more, nothing less

5. Said this at the beginning of the year, I'll say it now: Harrison Barnes = Marvin Williams i.e., overrated

1. Coach Cal will screw it up- I just think it will be in the form of a recruiting violation and retroactive striking of record.

4. Izzo is good, but Michigan State as a team? Pass.

5. Harrison Barnes is overrated, but he's still deadly as seen in the tournament last year (aka 30+ points in a game), plus Kendall Marshall has come to life a scoring threat in past couple of weeks, PJ Hairston seems to be finding his shooting rhythm, and Zeller/Henson combo inside is the most talented front court in the country.

[oseirus]

Happy Ides of March Historians ... we're now only a month left in the game ... oh and the Madness STARTS TODAY!

[oswic]

I would say that this POI was really the best-kept secret. I truly feel lucky to have known her and have her full support as i know that there are tons, tons and tons of POIs who would be very unlikely to do this with any applicant. By being honest with myself in my SOP (and loving it) and having her genuine interest really kept me sane, much saner than I’ve ever been during the application process and waiting for decisions (even though I had the inkling of fear that she might find someone better!). That's why it was so easy for me to be hush-hush on these boards about applying this year and nobody realized it until I hinted something from Wisconsin and screamed that I had gotten in at OSU.

I'm sure it was a meaningful (and rare) experience for your POI as well.

[StrangeLight]

for people waiting on pitt:

my little birdies tell me that all the acceptances have gone out. they're a week behind on sending out rejection letters because of some department drama. sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[crazedandinfused]

So it looks like the NYU rejections are trickling out. Is there any rhyme or reason to how this process will unfold?

[goldielocks]

Just popping in to say HELLO and I hope you are all holding up! I've been terrible about keeping up with the boards the last week or two. Looks like I've missed lots of excitement. Congrats to everyone who is starting to make decisions. Pretty exciting stuff.

[oseirus]

Random question: can a school rescind their after a prospie weekend b/c you might have been a tad bit obnoxious?

[Hogs of War]

For the love of God/Science I just want to know if I got in UMass. . . Please leave me with the shred of sanity I have left. . . I'll need it when I'm kicking ass and taking names in your History Program.

[TMP]

Random question: can a school rescind their after a prospie weekend b/c you might have been a tad bit obnoxious?

You might have put off some people but no. It's not like you've stolen 100 books out of the rare books collection....

[oseirus]

You might have put off some people but no. It's not like you've stolen 100 books out of the rare books collection....

Well guess I know what I'm doing this afternoon!

[crazedandinfused]

@ Hogs

What's your sub-field?

[HistThrift]

@ Hogs

What's your sub-field?

Are you planning on attending UMass, crazed?

[Hogs of War]

Medieval History (not UMass's wheelhouse, but I plan on mixing public history with it instead of the typical American History), and I have 3 professors I really want to work with (Barton, Olsen, and Taylor)

I 100% want to go to a different school for Ph.D., but I want to opportunity to get into a great Ph.D program, and my B.A. GPA will not allow that, so I figure my best bet is to work with professors I know, get on the right track, and then transition to a better program once I finish up my M.A.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Hogs of War

[crazedandinfused]

Are you planning on attending UMass, crazed?

It's becoming less and less likely that I will. I figured that if HogsOfWar was in my sub-field, maybe the 75% chance of me declining would help him. But we're literally worlds apart. Maybe it'll still help!

[Hogs of War]

It's becoming less and less likely that I will. I figured that if HogsOfWar was in my sub-field, maybe the 75% chance of me declining would help him. But we're literally worlds apart. Maybe it'll still help!

To be honest, the UMass History Department is typically (though I won't claim to have perfect understanding of this topic) more concerned with the number of funded students they can admit over the number of students per sub-field.

That being said, sub-fields are still important. . . They LOVE American History and Public History people.

[HistThrift]

To be honest, the UMass History Department is typically (though I won't claim to have perfect understanding of this topic) more concerned with the number of funded students they can admit over the number of students per sub-field.

That being said, sub-fields are still important. . . They LOVE American History and Public History people.

Yeah, I got that from my visit the other day -- especially the public history part.

[Hogs of War]

Yeah, I got that from my visit the other day -- especially the public history part.

Oh ya. . . Their Public history program is pretty darn good. . . So they've latched on. And the GPD has openly told other applicants I know (and have spoken to in person because they used to be co-workers of mine), that "If you're not applying to be a part of the PH program, UMass is probably not the right place for you."

I take that with a grain of salt, but there is a kernel of truth in it.

[oseirus]

Totally off topic but prospective days can really leave you conflicted ... a school can sell themselves with just the littlest things

[champagnecake]

Random question: can a school rescind their after a prospie weekend b/c you might have been a tad bit obnoxious?

Not really, but they should seriously consider doing so. Why were you being obnoxious?

[oseirus]

Not really, but they should seriously consider doing so. Why were you being obnoxious?

Poor training & poor upbringing?

In all honesty I think I freaked out over it but anywhose here is the sitch. I was a visit & we were invited to sit in on a grad seminar & they were discussing & they said we could throw in our thoughts & ideas. Anywhose, one person raised a point, which I had counter to, so I raised my hand to bring up my point. However no one was recognizing my raised hand, so I basically started talking to the person who made the point in a side convo style. Then all of a sudden they asked me to share my point out loud. I asked the next day & the students all said it wasn't a big deal but I felt so bad & just flat out rude. I thought I could get away with it. If they want to rescing their acceptance over that then I will surely understand BUT just know I am a venegeful person & I own a set of matches.

[Nordicllama]

Oseirus I'm sure you were more than fine. Side convos occur from time to time and they're little more than mildly irritating to those around. If what you said was brilliant, then you probably scored more points than you would have if you'd remained silent.

On another, more recreational note: agh my bracket took a beating last night and today.

[oseirus]

Oseirus I'm sure you were more than fine. Side convos occur from time to time and they're little more than mildly irritating to those around. If what you said was brilliant, then you probably scored more points than you would have if you'd remained silent.

On another, more recreational note: agh my bracket took a beating last night and today.

I have missed you Lllama ... in the way a diver misses the deep ... or a heroin addict misses methadone ... or kleptomaniac misses going to the sales at Foot Locker ... and this bracket thing you speak of? What be this contraption good sir?