Fall 2012 Applicant Chit Chat

[jlk88]

If it helps, I'll be starting a doctoral program with TWO masters degrees... nothing wrong with pursuing an MA!

Hear, Hear!

I agree. Don't look at a Master's program as anything but an opportunity. I know now that the two years I have spent in a Master's program as well as the work I've done as a graduate assistant have been invaluable to me as a scholar, future employee, and a person in general.

Not only have I had more time to consider what I want and what my true interests are, I've gained an extraordinary amount of experience, both academic and real world.

So, regardless of how my PhD applications turn out, I won't regret it.

[Simple Twist of Fate]

Hello everyone and congrats to those who received good news in the past few days.

I successfully steered myself away from this board over the weekend and today. I had a very nice, relaxed weekend overall, but That Feeling is starting to return. I had to resend GRE scores to one institution today (problem cleared up, thankfully) which frightened me a bit. Now based on the last few years' patterns I expect to hear back from several of my schools in the next two weeks. I'm nervous, but I've been lowering internal expectations and figuring out what I'll do if I'm universally rejected, so I know I'll be okay no matter what. Still nervous though.

Hope this week brings us all good news, and especially those of us who haven't received any acceptances yet.

[oseirus]

If it helps, I'll be starting a doctoral program with TWO masters degrees... nothing wrong with pursuing an MA!

Just two?! Ha! A mere child! I will now go collect 5 to have the WHOLE set!

[crater21]

Okay, I have a silly question:

I have been exchanging emails with POIs at a couple of schools at which I have been accepted. And, repeatedly, they are signing off their emails with their first name only. Is this an indication that I should now address the emails with their first name?

I grew up and went to school outside the US, in a very formal environment, so the idea of addressing professors by their first names is still culturally alien to me. At the same time, I don't want to send the message that I'm shunning collegial overtures.

(But, then, I also wonder if they are just writing emails in a rush without thinking about it, and would not really appreciate being called by their first name. I don't want to make a social faux pas before I have even started!)

Clearly, I have spent too much time agonizing over this, so any thoughts would be appreciated... Thanks!

[pudewen]

Okay, I have a silly question:

I have been exchanging emails with POIs at a couple of schools at which I have been accepted. And, repeatedly, they are signing off their emails with their first name only. Is this an indication that I should now address the emails with their first name?

I grew up and went to school outside the US, in a very formal environment, so the idea of addressing professors by their first names is still culturally alien to me. At the same time, I don't want to send the message that I'm shunning collegial overtures.

(But, then, I also wonder if they are just writing emails in a rush without thinking about it, and would not really appreciate being called by their first name. I don't want to make a social faux pas before I have even started!)

Clearly, I have spent too much time agonizing over this, so any thoughts would be appreciated... Thanks!

If they're signing all of their e-mails with their first names, that's what they want you to call them - if it was just because they were in a rush, they would have other short ways of signing e-mails (initials are the most common). In general, most faculty want their PhD students to call them by first name, so you should get used to it - though I say this as someone whose adviser is an exception (and he has clearly been very careful never to sign an e-mail to me with only his first name).

[Safferz]

Okay, I have a silly question:

I have been exchanging emails with POIs at a couple of schools at which I have been accepted. And, repeatedly, they are signing off their emails with their first name only. Is this an indication that I should now address the emails with their first name?

I grew up and went to school outside the US, in a very formal environment, so the idea of addressing professors by their first names is still culturally alien to me. At the same time, I don't want to send the message that I'm shunning collegial overtures.

(But, then, I also wonder if they are just writing emails in a rush without thinking about it, and would not really appreciate being called by their first name. I don't want to make a social faux pas before I have even started!)

Clearly, I have spent too much time agonizing over this, so any thoughts would be appreciated... Thanks!

Well, my undergrad profs sign emails with their first names too. I always say "Professor ___" and will continue to do so with POIs until I'm asked otherwise.

[irvinchiva10]

Well, my undergrad profs sign emails with their first names too. I always say "Professor ___" and will continue to do so with POIs until I'm asked otherwise.

I'll second Safferz. The relationship between a student and an advisor/POI is a professional one and as such necessitates certain formalities. However, if you are comfortable with a more casual relationship with your POI feel free to address them by their first name. I just prefer to keep it formal and respectful, so as to not blur the lines between an advisor and a acquaintance/friend.

[crater21]

Darn, need a consensus answer here, guys!

Just kidding - thanks so much for your input!

I guess it would be worse to be corrected for calling someone by their first name than it would be for calling someone by their title. So, maybe I should continue as usual, unless asked otherwise.

Though, I see your point, pudewen, that most faculty want their students to call them by first name. I just wonder if that extends to even before we've met.

Anyway, thanks again! I'm probably over-thinking this...

[pudewen]

Well, my undergrad profs sign emails with their first names too. I always say "Professor ___" and will continue to do so with POIs until I'm asked otherwise.

I'll second Safferz. The relationship between a student and an advisor/POI is a professional one and as such necessitates certain formalities. However, if you are comfortable with a more casual relationship with your POI feel free to address them by their first name. I just prefer to keep it formal and respectful, so as to not blur the lines between an advisor and a acquaintance/friend.

Look, I understand why you all are uncomfortable with this, but I think you're making a mistake. Safferz, your undergraduate professors may well be signalling that they are comfortable with you using their first name. I had a few professors in undergrad who wanted their students to use their first names, but more to the point, you're no longer an undergrad. When I was applying to grad school, I noticed my undergrad adviser starting to sign his e-mails to me with his first name, and began using it when talking to/writing to him - your relationship to your undergrad professors has changed, you are becoming a colleague, rather than just a student. Moreover, there are many professors who, though they might prefer that you use their first name, aren't ever going to explicitly ask you to do it because conversations like that are inherently awkward. How one signs one's name in e-mails or letters is a clear vehicle for signalling what one wants to be called. Signing with their first name once could be a slip-up; doing it consistently is a message. And crater, yes, it does extend to before you've met them - they're in part signalling the sort of relationship you'll have with them, one that is probably more collegial than with a professor who wants to be called by his/her title. Plus, if you're really nervous about misinterpreting, addressing an e-mail with their first name will create a much less awkward situation if you're wrong than would doing it in person, as they can (and probably would) correct you by signing their reply more formally rather than by directly telling you not to.

Irvin, yes, these are professional relationships, but that doesn't mean you use titles and last names all the time. The relationships professors have with each other are also professional, but I doubt you'll ever see two professors who know each other even slightly use titles/last names when talking to each other. In workplaces other than the academy it's also quite common for people to refer even to their immediate superiors by first name. It's an important part of creating a collegial environment in any workplace; the academy is no different.

Obviously, if a faculty member wants to be called "Professor Last Name" (as, for instance, my adviser does), then you should do so, just as you would if a boss wanted the same. But faculty who clearly signal that they want to be addressed by first name may well find it off-putting if you don't. Anyway, you'll probably all figure this out once you actually start your program (and see what your fellow grad students are doing) so it's not a big deal right now, and you should do whatever you're comfortable with, but be aware that you almost certainly will be calling most of your professors (and most professors period) by first name from now through the remainder of your career.

[RevolutionBlues]

Here's to hoping Wisconsin sends their funding info this week.

[New England Nat]

Yes, some professors signal that they want to be called by their first names and some do not. But I think Stafferz is correct that one should be very clear about those signals before committing to calling a person by their first name. I think the idea that how someone signs their email is a clear signal on this count is ... misguided. I have a professor who signs his email "M", do I think he wants me to call him that like he's got asperations to replace Judy Dench when she gives up the role? No. Email is just different.

If you keep calling them "Dr./Prof. Smith" while everyone else is calling them "John" you are making a mistake. As with most things in graduate school do what is common in the culture around you, and as a first year graduate student take the lead from the second years.

[StrangeLight]

i call professors "prof. ______" until they sign emails with their first name. then all bets are off. but i am excessively casual and no one's seemed to mind yet. i do have one prof (in a different department) who i call by her first name, but since she signs all her emails with her initials, i still refer to her as "prof. ____" in text. probably silly but she also hasn't replied with asking me to write her by her first name yet.

[uhohlemonster]

I went to hippie liberal arts school where all profs go by first names (and we even had accepted nicknames for them!) so in this whole process I've been VERY cautious to say Prof. But I agree, when they sign with a first name, I think all bets are off. But you know, if you want to be safe, wait til you meet them and feel it out.

[pudewen]

Yes, some professors signal that they want to be called by their first names and some do not. But I think Stafferz is correct that one should be very clear about those signals before committing to calling a person by their first name. I think the idea that how someone signs their email is a clear signal on this count is ... misguided. I have a professor who signs his email "M", do I think he wants me to call him that like he's got asperations to replace Judy Dench when she gives up the role? No. Email is just different.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Obviously professors don't want to be called by whatever they sign their e-mails with, but how they sign their e-mails often contains a fairly strong signal about what they want to be called; full name or initials (generally) means stick to title/last name, first name means use that. Anyway, I in theory do what Strangelight does (and consider it correct), though I'll admit to sometimes being a bit more cautious in practice.

[oseirus]

Good morning grad cafe family! Crater here is a Solomonic suggestion: split the difference. Call them "prof. first name" ...that way it will be awkward, loose and yet still professional

[virmundi]

I have never *ever* had any problems referring to a Professor as "Professor Lastname," even when they've signed their e-mails with their first name (I do revert to first name usage if and when they specifically have asked me to do so). I have, however, seen a professor excoriate a graduate student who presumed that it was acceptable to revert to first name usage. In short, my own policy is definitely to follow the lead of the other students to *some* respect, but I have had nothing but success by being deferential to professors. They'll let you know if they don't like you calling them "Professor Lastname," in my experience.

[Hopin'-n-Prayin']

In my opinion, grad students are not on equal footing with their professors, and as such should defer to saying "Professor_____". I actually say "Dr. ______", but thats based on my own theory of what people really want to be called.

To me, "call me Bill" is an invitation to adress your professor by first name, not how they sign their e-mail.

Just one more opinion to throw on the pile, Crater!

PS: I also second what virmundi said above...

Edited February 21, 2012 by Hopin'-n-Prayin'

[Gene Parmesan]

I always went "dr. ___" as an undergrad. When I became a master's student, it was more expected to go by first names because of the really great community in our dept.

My rule right now is to continue with "Professor_______" in email as I'm talking to my POIs. Then, once I visit and meet them in person, I'll go by their first name which they have been using to sign emails.

[Kai210]

I call most professors by their first name, and I think many of you will find that your professors prefer it this way. In fact, I have one "superstar" professor who will DEMAND of his students to call him by his first name. His rationale: your in training to become his colleague. This is not undergrad, and the idea that first-name calling compromises the professional relationship is misguided. Now, to be certain, there are some professors who still prefer to be called "Dr. X and Y" or "Professor K and J." But I have found that more with professors who have held long tenures in the academy, and are still attached to a more mature approach to the graduate student-professor relationship. I do think that emails are key. It is always easier when they just tell you what to call them, and some will actually do this very thing. But some will send other cues and how they sign their email is as clear a message to you on your professor's preference as it would be for him or her to express it verbally. If a professor signs his/her full name, they are attempting to be less pretentious but are signaling that they desire for you to still call them "Dr." or "Prof." If they sign off "Dr." or "Prof," well it is clear what their preference is for you. But if they sign off with their first name, it is an indication that you are able to call them by their first name. I have also had professors sign off their emails with the first initial of their first name like "R" or "H." But what I have found is that professors who do that already allow me to call them by their first name. To me, then, it only furthers the less-than-formal relationship we are developing. My advisor used to sign all his emails with the title of "Dr." and the first initial of his last name. And I would call him that just as I did another professor who did the same. I noticed after I passed my candidacy exams, he started signing off his emails with his first name. Other professors I have worked with or know in the department allowed me to call them by their first name even earlier. I WILL CAUTION that this matter should be treated on a case-by-case basis. Just because one professor allows you to call him or her by a first name is not carte blanche to do it with others. Similarly, just because a professor allows one particular student to call him or her by a first name does not give you the license to do the same.

All this said, I think the transition between undergraduate and graduate school can be steep. Even when professors gesture to students to be called by their first name, you have students immediately out of undergrad who have problems embracing the casual relationship. I think the transition is a little less daunting in this regard when you work for several years/pursue a MA prior to your matriculation in a doctoral program. It gives you a chance to move beyond seeing your professors as an authority and more glimpsing them as colleagues. And, in the final analysis, I think the latter point is most important. You are training to become your professors' colleagues. You're closer to them than to the students you will be teaching as TAs. So accept the practice of calling your professors by their first name once the chance to do so is extended to you.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Kai210

[goldielocks]

Just to chime in, I'm with Virmundi. I always always always use "Professor" or "Dr."

The POIs at my potential institutions have corrected me and asked me to call them by their first names. Wait for them to do this, and prevent any awkward moments.

[StrangeLight]

i don't call any of my professors "dr." except on my CV when i list my committee members. but that's just a product of my non-academic background. when someone yells "is there a doctor here?" they don't mean the dude that studies the antebellum south. (i know this will anger some people here, but i don't care. i still think it's pretentious).

while grad students are not on equal footing with professors, grad students are also not on equal footing with undergraduates. in fact, grad students are probably given far more respect and weight than adjuncts, and adjuncts certainly refer to profs by their first names. again, i don't go to first-name basis until they start addressing themselves by their first names to me, but i think once that door is opened graduate students should take it. you may not begin grad school as their colleague, but by the time you finish you want those professors to think of you as a colleague. even better if they say that about you in an LOR for a job.

[Kelkel]

I think there's been a lot of great advice given out already, so I'll go with "do what you feel comfortable with." Sure, explicit directions are nice, but if you feel comfortable calling them by their first name and they've been addressing themselves as such -- why not!

At my UG, we just addressed everyone by their last names. Sure, the older professors we'd tack on the Dr. because they were (literally) old school. Most of the professors had distinctive last names that just felt right. We had the kind of culture of a grad school (students and professors knew each other very well), but we were still STUDENTS.

A bunch of seniors gathered outside the offices of two professors in our departments about a week before we graduated. We were having fun and being obnoxiously loud and we got onto the first name discussion. The two professors came back from lunch right around this time. The lady-professor told us we were allowed to call her by her first name AFTER we graduated, but not before. Much to both's dismay, we then had a good time of calling them both by their first names until class/test started (I think it was finals week). In the end, we all agreed calling the lady-professor by her first name was okay, but the guy-professor just has a cool last name and we couldn't imagine calling him by his first.

Now the lady-professor gets mad if we DON'T call her by her first name.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Kelkel

[crazedandinfused]

when someone yells "is there a doctor here?" they don't mean the dude that studies the antebellum south.

Hehe.. Now I have an image of somebody poking their head out of a pile of carnage and screaming "does anyone here study the antebellum south?!". (it actually is germane to dealing with carnage, but that's another matter entirely)

Anyway, I'm just gonna ask people straight up what I should call them.

Can I please not have another anticlimactic week?????

Edited February 21, 2012 by crazedandinfused

[virmundi]

While I am not "angry," I do disagree that it is necessarily pretentious for a Ph.D. to go by doctor (although I will concede that I am on the "call me by my first name" part of the spectrum -- even with my undergrad students). The title of "Doctor" has only recently, relative to the antiquity of the word, come to be used to refer to physicians. The extension of the amount of schooling necessary to become a physician or a lawyer was a post-bellum phenomenon that was driven to a not-insignificant degree by the desire to exclude African-Americans from these careers, albeit this was not the sole determinant. If a someone who has earned a Ph.D. wishes to be called "Dr. such-and-such," I have no opinion about it -- they've earned the right. Now if this same person goes around proclaiming their status and acting as a jack-ass, then that's altogether another matter. I've never seen that happen, however.

I, too, come from a non-academic background, by the way. About as far as one possibly can -- neither of my parents finished high school and I am the first to attend community college (much less continue on to graduate school, etc.). As such, I can certify that my opinion is not the product of a pretentious upbringing or some other sort of blue-blooded thingamabobbajiggered opining.

[goldielocks]

I, too, come from a non-academic background, by the way. About as far as one possibly can -- neither of my parents finished high school and I am the first to attend community college (much less continue on to graduate school, etc.).

And you were accepted to Yale. And Brown. And USC. And UCSB. This made my heart warm and fuzzy. I have a similar story, and I'm so happy to see other first-gens succeeding. Congrats!