Fall 2012 Applicant Chit Chat

[maeisenb]

So, question about contacting professors: luckily, I have been getting some positive responses. But, I'm not sure how to follow up with them. Any advice?

For example, some of the professors I have contacted have written back with a very brief, "That sounds very interesting. I would be happy to supervise you if you are admitted. Good luck with the application etc etc"

So, how do you follow up on this? Do you just say thank you, and that is the end of exchange?

You can always ask them more specific questions about the program if you have any. That way it's more than one email...

[TMP]

Honestly? I wouldn't bother following up with those kind of e-mails. They're obviously too busy to pay close attention to your e-mail even if the fit seems weird and they won't say so. That's just a standard response for professors who are just simply too busy to deal with potential applicants or don't want to get involved with your application until they actually see everyone's to make things a little fair (or their time is better used that way). Especially if they don't include "If you have any specific questions, I'll be happy to answer them."

I know it sounds harsh but I've sent out more than 20 e-mails over two application cycles and realized the truth. It's up to you whether or not you really want to apply to this program. I've seen applicants who apply anyway (including myself). Sometimes they actually get warm responses when they were admitted, simply because the professor didn't want to get personally involved with an applicant before they see all other applications. Other times, well, the professors were just plain jerks as they were in their e-mails (this you can confirm with your own network contacts).

So, in other words, don't fret. Decide if you really want to apply to this program. Then move on with the process.

[crazedandinfused]

Ok, so I asked a professor whose class i got a B+ in for a letter (in retrospect that was probably a dumb idea) and he was really nice and honest with me about what he could do. He said he would be willing to write one, but that it wouldn't be as strong a letter as I would need. It hurt, but I'd rather get a punch in the stomach now than get 7 rejections in March. My question is: Would it be totally out of line for me to ask a professor whose class I'm currently taking for a letter? Obviously, I would wait until later in the semester (it would really be down to the wire). I'll be able to get three letters without his, but I would really like to get one from a historian.

Edited October 10, 2011 by crazedandinfused

[StrangeLight]

if you don't have ANY letters from a historian, you need one. unfortunately, so much of what helps us get into grad programs is the networking and reputation of our LOR writers. if the adcom hasn't heard of any of them (and they won't, if none are historians) then it will kill your chances. some applications even specify that at least one LOR needs to be from a historian.

programs don't really care if your BA was in history or not, but they do care whether or not you've taken history classes before. for people that can't secure one strong LOR from a history prof, i'd suggest throwing in some applications to area studies MA programs as well and, if you're enrolled in one of those programs, go out of your way to take history courses and make contacts with history profs so that when you apply for the PhD later, you have strong LORs from historians.

[crazedandinfused]

if you don't have ANY letters from a historian, you need one. unfortunately, so much of what helps us get into grad programs is the networking and reputation of our LOR writers. if the adcom hasn't heard of any of them (and they won't, if none are historians) then it will kill your chances. some applications even specify that at least one LOR needs to be from a historian.

programs don't really care if your BA was in history or not, but they do care whether or not you've taken history classes before. for people that can't secure one strong LOR from a history prof, i'd suggest throwing in some applications to area studies MA programs as well and, if you're enrolled in one of those programs, go out of your way to take history courses and make contacts with history profs so that when you apply for the PhD later, you have strong LORs from historians.

So, would it be within the bounds of propriety to ask the professor whose class I'm currently taking to write me a letter? I'm doing really well in the class, and I'll have all my papers -except for the final one- submitted by the time I ask him. In fact, I'll have my grade before most of the application deadlines. It's just two schools that have a December 1st deadline...

[TMP]

You wouldn't know unless you tried to ask, wouldn't you?

He may not feel comfortable only he hasn't known you for long and won't have much time to reflect on your abilities. Your LOR dilemma is something to think about in terms of moving forward with the applications. You really do need a historian to support your application- that you have the potential to be an excellent historian.

[AlexM]

I finished my BA last Summer and was offered a DPhil (PhD) position in a lab down in Sussex but

there's big problems getting funding. So frustrating knowing I could start in a good lab but

money being the issue. I can stick it out for a while though. Maybe next year.

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I like the ScheduleOnce meeting scheduler

[lexi87]

Hi everyone! I'm new here but am applying for programs this fall as well. I'm not sure if the veterans have any insight but I have a couple questions...

1) What are the typical yield rates for these programs? I see stuff like "6 incoming students" and freak out...so for a program that's looking for a class of 10 students, or 20 students, how many people will they usually admit?

2) I've gotten a few replies from professors who want to have a phone conversation. What can I expect from this? Ahhhh.

3) How much should I be reading into professors (after I've made initial contact with them) wanting to talk on the phone/asking for a writing sample/offering to revise drafts of my statement of interest? Obviously I'd love to think that this is a good sign, but I really don't want to get my hopes up...

Thanks in advance! I really just want to get in somewhere...totally wish we could find out before February because I know the wait is going to kill me. Good luck to everyone!!!

[maeisenb]

2) I've gotten a few replies from professors who want to have a phone conversation. What can I expect from this? Ahhhh.

3) How much should I be reading into professors (after I've made initial contact with them) wanting to talk on the phone/asking for a writing sample/offering to revise drafts of my statement of interest? Obviously I'd love to think that this is a good sign, but I really don't want to get my hopes up...

Phone calls are definitely a good thing for sure. It just means you have more time to talk about your interests, their program, whether it's a good fit, etc. Just have some questions prepped that you want to ask about the place, his/her work, etc. and you're good to go. Just treat it kind of like a phone interview for a job more than anything really so be friendly, polite, etc.

As for how much to read into it, well it depends on the place really. If you have the GPA, GRE, LORs, language training etc, to get through the first round of an adcom, then it certainly can't hurt if they remember your conversation when they read your app.

[TMP]

Hi everyone! I'm new here but am applying for programs this fall as well. I'm not sure if the veterans have any insight but I have a couple questions...

1) What are the typical yield rates for these programs? I see stuff like "6 incoming students" and freak out...so for a program that's looking for a class of 10 students, or 20 students, how many people will they usually admit?

2) I've gotten a few replies from professors who want to have a phone conversation. What can I expect from this? Ahhhh.

3) How much should I be reading into professors (after I've made initial contact with them) wanting to talk on the phone/asking for a writing sample/offering to revise drafts of my statement of interest? Obviously I'd love to think that this is a good sign, but I really don't want to get my hopes up...

Thanks in advance! I really just want to get in somewhere...totally wish we could find out before February because I know the wait is going to kill me. Good luck to everyone!!!

Hi everyone! I'm new here but am applying for programs this fall as well. I'm not sure if the veterans have any insight but I have a couple questions...

1) What are the typical yield rates for these programs? I see stuff like "6 incoming students" and freak out...so for a program that's looking for a class of 10 students, or 20 students, how many people will they usually admit?

2) I've gotten a few replies from professors who want to have a phone conversation. What can I expect from this? Ahhhh.

3) How much should I be reading into professors (after I've made initial contact with them) wanting to talk on the phone/asking for a writing sample/offering to revise drafts of my statement of interest? Obviously I'd love to think that this is a good sign, but I really don't want to get my hopes up...

Thanks in advance! I really just want to get in somewhere...totally wish we could find out before February because I know the wait is going to kill me. Good luck to everyone!!!

1) Less than 10%. Way less than 10%. No kidding. Most programs aim to yield anywhere between 5 to 20 students out of 150-500 applications (with the 500 being Columbia's usual). It is freaking nearly impossible to get in a history program with funding although we comfort ourselves that English people have it way worse.

2) It's a conversation. Relax, just answer their questions about your research interests, language preparation, and questions about the program. And have some questions handy. Don't be afraid to say (after one or two questions) that you're sure that you have more and would like to follow up via e-mail. They're good about that and will answer in your follow up e-mail.

3) It's a good sign but it's not perfect because professors sometimes will encounter an applicant who never made a contact and has much more compelling reasons for attending that program than you do. So, who wins? Nonetheless, show yourself to be a good graduate student during the process. Listen to their feedback and accept criticisms. Maybe ask a question. Even if you had to cry when you saw all the red in the Track Changes.

[Simple Twist of Fate]

I've been getting very encouraging responses to my emails to potential advisers.

A couple of professors have also offered to set up a time to speak over phone as well, which surprised me a bit. I've never felt that I'm at my best over the phone. I feel most effective either in person or in email... so I'm not sure what to do.

As for the propriety of asking for a LoR from a current Prof., I think it depends on the individual. I had to get an LoR from a history professor a couple of years ago for a campus job. I asked one professor after class, and he declined. When I asked a different professor after class, she enthusiastically accepted. The first professor later implied that he would have written the letter for me if I had asked him in private (apparently another student in that class was applying for the same job and he didn't want to show favoritism), and he's now writing one of my LoRs for grad school. Of course the most important part of that story is that I got the job in the end...

[crater21]

Thanks for the responses, everyone!

[StrangeLight]

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<p>So, would it be within the bounds of propriety to ask the professor whose class I'm currently taking to write me a letter? I'm doing really well in the class, and I'll have all my papers -except for the final one- submitted by the time I ask him. In fact, I'll have my grade before most of the application deadlines. It's just two schools that have a December 1st deadline...</p>

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</p>

<p> </p>

<p>you can ask your current prof, but you want him/her to have enough time to actually write this letter. the prof should not be rushed. odds are, they're going to write the same letter for all of your schools, rather than individually tailor it to each program (some profs tailor their LORs to programs, but that's because you're their favourite. most don't have the time). so this prof will need time to write your LOR fully and completely by december 1. he/she should be given at least 4 weeks to write this letter. they're busy people. ask this prof NOW if he/she'll write the letter (the prof might say no, after all, and then you need to find someone else). tell the prof you'll provide him/her with a dossier to give him/her a greater sense of your background. in that dossier, put your university transcript, a writing sample that is either really great or is a history research paper (preferably it's both), and include your statement of purpose. all of this should go to this prof by november 1 at the latest. since it's already october 11, if you haven't written your SOP and don't have your writing sample picked out yet, it's time to get to work. if this timeline is unmanageable for you (a writing sample and a decent draft of your SOP by november 1), then consider dropping the schools with the december 1 deadline from your list.</p>

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<p>Hi everyone! I'm new here but am applying for programs this fall as well. I'm not sure if the veterans <img alt="" class="bbc_emoticon" src="http://forum.thegradcafe.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png" /> have any insight but I have a couple questions...</p>

<p> </p>

<p>1) What are the typical yield rates for these programs? I see stuff like &quot;6 incoming students&quot; and freak out...so for a program that's looking for a class of 10 students, or 20 students, how many people will they usually admit?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>2) I've gotten a few replies from professors who want to have a phone conversation. What can I expect from this? Ahhhh.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>3) How much should I be reading into professors (after I've made initial contact with them) wanting to talk on the phone/asking for a writing sample/offering to revise drafts of my statement of interest? Obviously I'd love to think that this is a good sign, but I really don't want to get my hopes up...</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Thanks in advance! I really just want to get in somewhere...totally wish we could find out before February because I know the wait is going to kill me. Good luck to everyone!!!</p>

<p>

</p>

<p> </p>

<p>1) in my experience, programs will admit roughly double the number of students that they want for their yield. so if they want 6 students, they'll admit 12. if they want 10, they'll admit 20. if they want 20, they'll admit 40. occasionally they overyield (more than their desired number enroll) and occasionally they underyield (fewer). at my own very small program, they get roughly 120 applications a year, admit about 15 or 16, and hope for an enrollment of 8. schools that have strengths in a ton of fields (rather than just 2 or 3, like my program) will get way more applicants, but may still only admit 15 or 16 students.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>2) it's a conversation. prepare a short, 30 second statement recapping your interest in their program. be specific. talk about your research interests. talk about how you think those interests fit that prof and that program. maybe bring up their work? if their library has a great archival collection for your research, bring that up. they love that shit (which means, research their library's holdings). have a few questions for them THAT COULD NOT BE ANSWERED BY SIMPLY CHECKING THE DEPARTMENT'S WEBSITE. the worst thing is to ask them for information that you could easily find on their webpage. it makes you seem lazy and uninterested in their program. so read every damn page of that web page and come up with a question or two that is not mentioned there. even just ask about the city and grad student morale and how the faculty gets along, what relationship the profs in your field have with each other and with their students.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>3) it's a good sign, but it guarantees you nothing. i had a phone conversation with a prof where she kept asking me &quot;are you sure this is the best place for your work?&quot; that was basically her first question. admittedly, it wasn't. i'm a central americanist trying to convince a colombianist that she could advise me (and in retrospect, she really couldn't have). i didn't get in there, but mostly because she moved schools that spring without telling any of her potential applicants. i also talked with one prof who just told me, &quot;i haven't advised on anything other than cuba in over a decade and i don't plan to, so either change your project or ask one of my colleagues to advise you.&quot; fair enough. i had great phone and email exchanges with other profs, they gave me pointers on my SOP, but i still came up short. i also had great phone conversations with schools that i got into, and i got into programs without having had much contact before the applications went in. so.... it's all over the map.</p>

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[StrangeLight]

<p>also, the html on this website can suck my nonexistent balls. for eff's sake.</p>

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[crazedandinfused]

Strangelight, you rock. Thank you so much. All my supplemental materials are done (although I'll be tweaking them until midnight, Nov. 31st). I'll email the professor today!

[lexi87]

Thank you so much for the advice everyone! Very helpful!

[goldielocks]

Alright. At long last, the GRE is done. I took it today. It went better than I expected, though I suppose I won't know the official scores until next month. But much better than I'd hoped, which is more than I can ask for. And even more importantly... it's finally done and out of the way. And I can just forget about it now. Whew. Like a giant weight off of my shoulders. Breathing easier. I hope everyone who is sitting for the exam this month gets this feeling soon!

What's everyone else doing this weekend? Revising the SOP? Writing sample? Conference paper? All three? Yeah, me too.

[crazedandinfused]

Just took the GRE today. 560-660 Q and 750-800 V. I obviously suck at math, but I really liked the verbal and the way the new test is formatted. That said, I don't ever want to take that test again......

[sandyvanb]

Congrats on goldilocks and crazedandinfused on getting the GRE out of the way! I am in grading hell, their first exam was abysmal. I had a massive panic in the class that got their exams back. They were genuinely surprised at how badly they did. Other than grading four more classes, I have two writing samples to edit. My mentor has been whipping through my samples so I can start submitting soon. I'm also trying to get through some articles so I can contact profs. The deadlines are quickly approaching...

[goldielocks]

Crazed, congrats on the scores. I also suck at math, and just started guessing part way through the exam... Because I was convinced it was going that poorly. Luckily I was wrong, but wow, am I glad I never have to do that again.

[goldielocks]

Sandy, so sorry to hear about the poor performances on the exam. Is this a survey course? I think you mentioned before, but I can't remember. You've got a lot on your plate, it seems. Just think how nice the teaching experience will look on those applications. Oh, and alcohol... That usually does the trick for me.

[sandyvanb]

Goldie, I am teaching five WHI survey courses. Mostly freshman, and I inherited three sections from a professor who was known to give everyone in the class a "B." Needless to say, my three sections are packed with athletes and international students, all of whom expected to get awarded a "B" without doing any work. The exam average for my "special" section was a 55%. They have quickly realized that they are in trouble and they are now starting to panic. The energy in those classes has changed dramatically. I know that I have a full plate, but I am really happy to have this year as a gap year. I am learning to deal with all sorts of classroom situations and growing as a lecturer. I am teaching a course that is far outside of my comfort level, so if I can survive this year, I can teach anything. I am fortunate to have been hired from the department I just graduated from, so I feel comfortable speaking to any faculty member and telling them "I don't know what I'm doing, what would you do?" If I were someplace else, I might not want to admit that I don't have all of the answers. I was further humbled when the dean told me that I was the first graduate student that the history department ever hired as a full-time lecturer right after graduation. The teaching quality is so high in the department, that I really hope that I am bringing the same level to my classes. My students make that a real challenge.

As far as my apps go, it is lucky that my thesis is done and I am just editing chapters for writing samples. It is amazing how many errors you find after you step away from your work for a few months! My basic SoP is in good shape, it just needs to be tailored for each program. I'll get it all done, it's just going to be a marathon!

[Safferz]

I've gotten the first draft of my SOP out of the way, and I'm feeling great about it. I'm now working on editing my 27 page writing sample down to 20, a conference paper due in under three weeks (gah!), and a few additional assignments for certain applications (a personal history statement, and a book review). I'm trying to balance this all with a full course load, but applications are my priority right now. I'm bracing myself for the hellish 6-7 weeks ahead.

[Sigaba]

My students make that a real challenge.

Do not let them, Klio, or yourself down.

[goldielocks]

Safferz, congrats on finishing the SOP draft. I keep scratching mine and starting over. It's frustrating. I also have to do the book review... Yale?

Hopefully we will all have a productive weekend, and we can check back in to boast about everything we accomplished. Happy Saturday!