Low GRE/Good Resume: Do I have a chance?

[turkeyteacher]

I am planning on applying for a Ph.D (and maybe an Ed.D program) in Curriculum and Instruction (with a sub-interest for urban education) for Fall 2012. After spending countless hours researching on the web, I cannot find out whether or not I have a competitive chance of getting in.

Basically, I think I have a pretty strong application overall, but I bombed the GRE. I know that many of you are going to say re-take it, but while I have proven that I am pretty successful academically, I simply freeze up on standardized tests. =(

Below is my application information:

Undergrad GPA: 3.76

Graduate GPA (M.A., English): 3.8

Publications/Research: One publication

Teaching Experience: 8 years . . . 6 years in a (VERY) urban school, 2 years international/elite private in Istanbul, Turkey +lots of leadership experience and responsibilities at each school

GRE: 1110 V: 580 (82%) Q: 530 (32% . . . ouch, I know)

Languages: Native English, Intermediate Spanish, Intermediate Turkish

Schools I am applying to: University of Maryland, University of Texas Austin, George Washington, Texas A & M, Boston College, UMass

Any advice or clarity on this issue would be helpful!!!

Edited August 2, 2011 by turkeyteacher

[t_ruth]

Have you talked to the specific schools/faculty to which you are applying? You have a strong background (with the publication, congrats!), but they might have GRE cut-offs that you don't make. You should know this before you possibly waste your time.

[turkeyteacher]

Yes, this is my worry. I will plan on emailing them, I just need to fine-tune some of my research goals first.

I just don't understand why they are so secretive about all of their scores while other majors, even non-math/science ones, freely post what they require. I guess I am also just nervous about emailing professors becuase I am under the impression that I will be "wasting" their time. I do feel like I have a lot to offer a program, however, and any quantatative analysis I complete for my future research will not be timed and at a testing center, so it makes me angry that this is such an obstacle to my success in a NON-math/science major.

Math/science applicants can get away with a lower verbal so why do non-math majors place so much value on math???

Again thanks for the response!

[t_ruth]

The math in the GRE is not pure math. A lot of it is math reasoning--it's a skill that is fairly easy to improve with the effort. From my experience with it (getting high 700s after not having taken a math class in nearly 15 years*), I would raise an eyebrow at that score (sorry). I would probably take it as an indication that you didn't put a lot of effort into it, which might be good or bad, depending on the type of professor evaluating your app.

*I did put a fair amount of effort into it, so it wasn't just natural ability.

[turkeyteacher]

Yes, you have a good point and it is a genuine worry of mine that they will interpret my score as such. If it was pure math, however, I probably would be able to score better because then it would be more concrete.

As far as effort, I have spent time practicing on and off for the past year and spent 3 months studying with an average of about 12 hours per week. I know this is not as much as some, but I do have a very demanding job right now. I have notebooks filled with practice problems I completed, I just get nervous and freeze upon these tests.

I will just have to trust that the rest of my resume speaks for my work ethic (graduating university with honors at 20 and beginning my high school teaching career at 21, my leadership positions at work, etc.).

[ZeChocMoose]

Are you planning on pursuing a quantitative research agenda? If so, I agree with t_ruth. That score would really raise my eyebrows and I would be concerned that you would not be able to pass the required statistics classes. Have you taken any statistics courses? If so, how did you do?

If you plan to pursue a qualitative research agenda and an EdD maybe it is not as concerning. Typically those degrees are not as research/stats intensive and the people who pursue them are interested in more administrative pursuits than research. If this is your plan, perhaps the adcomm would argue that your leadership and professional experience are more important and this should offset your low Q score.

Pet peeve on mine but needs to be said. Math and writing skills are important for everyone regardless of what academic field they pursue. I am tired of people justifying lack of skill because they are not a "math-person" or not a "english-person" *especially* in people who pursue education as their field because they should know better and understand how valuable each field is. Blah.

[turkeyteacher]

I have A's and B's in all of my math courses, including Statistics. The Statistics course (got a B+), however, is not on my undergraduate transcript becuase I transfered. I guess I can send them that too. Normally, I would just take a freaking Stats class or something to perhaps make them feel better, but this is not possible for me to do in Turkey.

I agree with your pet peeve. I actually ejoy math, but to me, the GRE Quantative section is much different.

It's just weird to me that a 530 in Q is considered such a low score and (and indicative of my work ethic??) while my 580 in V is as high or higer than the average GRE scores for MOST of the top education schools.

If I sound a little bitter, I am. I am also realistic, however, and I know that despite what my personal feelings are, my score WILL be a problem. I'm just saying it should work both ways for V and Q scores, but it doesn't.

[t_ruth]

Lower scores in verbal are a much higher percentile rank...the quant scores are very inflated. This is partly because of international students and partly because the quant is easier to improve.

And people, including professors, base their assumptions about you on their prior experience (both their own and of other students/friend/colleagues/etc.), so we have to be prepared for them to form opinions that may seem arbitrary. The key is to provide them with more data points that dispel those opinions: make them see through other things that you are a hard worker and that you can do the quant reasoning. The verbal isn't that big a deal because presumably you will show them through your writing that it doesn't define you.

This still doesn't get you around the cut-off score problem though...

And we responded to the math because that's what you specifically asked about.

[likemarigold]

Your application profile is somewhat similar to what mine was, turkeyteacher, and I'm starting at Rutgers with a full fellowship in education theory, organization, and policy this fall.

My undergrad GPA was a 3.75, but unlike you, I didn't get a Master's degree. I taught for seven years in two urban education settings in New Jersey, and by the time I was applying, I had won a couple of small grants for classroom projects and improvements and had two publications under my belt. My GRE scores were 740 V and 520 Q.

My program is unambiguously a research program, and I'll be doing quant and qual methods coursework right from go. The fellowship requires that I do a fairly serious pre-dissertation research project beginning in my first year, too. When I was applying, I was really worried about being in the bottom third on the quantitative GRE, but I didn't have much choice. I was working insane hours at the time; I didn't have time to study or the money for a course, and I just showed up at the testing site during my lunch hour, crossed my fingers, and sat for the test.

In the end, I wasn't admitted to the Ivy League school I applied to, and I was wait listed at a very large urban private university (I opted out of the waitlist because I had already made up my mind). I was admitted with funding to all three state schools I applied to, though. I chose Rutgers because their Women's Studies department is so phenomenal, their new urban ed initiatives are really exciting, and I found the most amazing, amazing adviser in the Rutgers GSE.

I am sure you'll find the right spot, whether or not you bring up your quant scores. It's not all about the numbers. Get to know the faculty at your prospective schools as much as possible, and you will find the professors who want to invest in you.