0% Confidence of Acceptance

[ProfLorax]

Okay, I'll play along. Why is there even a debate concerning the Oxford comma? As far as I'm concerned, its presence or absence can completely change the meaning of a sentence. To wit:

 

"We invented the strippers, JFK, and Stalin."

 

versus

 

"We invented the strippers, JFK and Stalin."

I love the picture that corresponds with this example:

 

[Swagato]

Ha, I didn't even know there was an image/a meme of it. But, it's the internet, so of course someone did that. Still, it only reinforces what to my mind is a fatal difference that the Oxford comma's presence or absence can make. 

[t1racyjacks]

UT Austin just sent me a rejection email. sigh. just letting you guys know -- so I'm the new Austin rejectee for english in results posted.

[InHacSpeVivo]

Sorry about UT. We are not having a good Monday..

Edited February 11, 2013 by Pericles II.ii.48

[practical cat]

I love the picture that corresponds with this example:

 

[patientagony]

UT Austin just sent me a rejection email. sigh. just letting you guys know -- so I'm the new Austin rejectee for english in results posted.

 

I'm right there with you. I got mine in my e-mail first thing this morning and I wasn't surprised.

 

I know people have talked about schools they wished they applied to now, but I'm having a, "Why the hell did I apply there?!" state of mind over UT Austin because now that I think about it, the school wasn't a great fit in the first place. I can't even take it personally.

[thebeatgoeson]

Woke up this morning and immediate checked my email, the results board, and several application pages that should be changing soon.

 

Blah.

 

That being said, good luck to everyone this week!

[It's (Not) About Me]

I know people have talked about schools they wished they applied to now, but I'm having a, "Why the hell did I apply there?!" state of mind over UT Austin because now that I think about it, the school wasn't a great fit in the first place. I can't even take it personally.

 

I've been feeling that way about Northwestern, too. It was the last school I chose to apply to, and in retrospect it feels like my thought process went: "Ummmmm, OK, you too!" I knew it wasn't the greatest fit for my interests. But then again, lately it seems to me that I went about choosing my schools allllll wrong. There's not a single one that I feel fully confident about. For some reason, that seemed like an acceptable thing to do at the time ("go big or go home!"), but now I'm completely kicking myself. I wonder if my signature makes me seem like an arrogant/over-confident jerk, haha.

[DontHate]

I've been feeling that way about Northwestern, too. It was the last school I chose to apply to, and in retrospect it feels like my thought process went: "Ummmmm, OK, you too!" I knew it wasn't the greatest fit for my interests. But then again, lately it seems to me that I went about choosing my schools allllll wrong. There's not a single one that I feel fully confident about. For some reason, that seemed like an acceptable thing to do at the time ("go big or go home!"), but now I'm completely kicking myself. I wonder if my signature makes me seem like an arrogant/over-confident jerk, haha.

 

Honestly, I think your strategy was a good one. Maybe there were a few other excellent schools that would have been a good fit. But the benefits of getting a PhD from a school that's NOT top-ranked are minimal, especially in English which is an extremely glutted field. I've said this a bunch of times on here: I would not get a PhD if I weren't sure I could get an academic job with it. And basically, that means my PhD has to come from a top-15 program. So I don't think you look arrogant or over-confident for applying to the best schools, I think you look pragmatic. If you don't get in, you won't get a PhD, which is better than getting a PhD that you won't be able to use.

[wreckofthehope]

 I've said this a bunch of times on here: I would not get a PhD if I weren't sure I could get an academic job with it.

 

There are no certainties, even with a PhD from a top 15 department. 

[DontHate]

There are no certainties, even with a PhD from a top 15 department. 

 

What I should have said was, I wouldn't get a PhD if it seemed UNLIKELY that I could get an academic job with it. I want the statistics to be on my side, so I'm going to get a PhD from the best school I am accepted at.

 

Wreckofthehope: I know you take it personally when I say stuff about employability, since you're going to a lower-ranked program. I'm not saying that you made the wrong choice, or that you won't get a job. All I'm saying is that for ME, since I have a certain academic background and certain expectations for resources and connections, I would not be comfortable going to a PhD program without a stellar placement record. I'm insecure that way. I don't trust myself to be an amazing standout at a no-name school. I expect I'm more likely to be a decent candidate from an amazing school. Everybody's different, but as far as Its(Not)AboutMe's strategy of applying to a bunch of top programs -- well it's a viable strategy, and I can respect it.

Edited February 11, 2013 by DontHate

[wreckofthehope]

What I should have said was, I wouldn't get a PhD if it seemed UNLIKELY that I could get an academic job with it. I want the statistics to be on my side, so I'm going to get a PhD from the best school I am accepted at.

 

Of course, I imagine those are the same plans as majority of us here. 

[patientagony]

There are no certainties, even with a PhD from a top 15 department. 

Totally agree, but I think that the better ranked the school, the better your chances are going to be.

 

But the benefits of getting a PhD from a school that's NOT top-ranked are minimal, especially in English which is an extremely glutted field. I've said this a bunch of times on here: I would not get a PhD if I weren't sure I could get an academic job with it. And basically, that means my PhD has to come from a top-15 program.

 

What are the rankings that matter though? Overall department or subfield? I've been accepted to Indiana Bloomington, which is ranked around 22 overall I think, but is one of the three best places to do Victorian, which is what I plan on studying. If I get into a better ranked school overall, would it be more sensible to go with Indiana or the program that is better ranked?

[waparys]

Which sub-field rankings do you use, patientagony?

[wreckofthehope]

What I should have said was, I wouldn't get a PhD if it seemed UNLIKELY that I could get an academic job with it. I want the statistics to be on my side, so I'm going to get a PhD from the best school I am accepted at.

 

Wreckofthehope: I know you take it personally when I say stuff about employability, since you're going to a lower-ranked program. I'm not saying that you made the wrong choice, or that you won't get a job. All I'm saying is that for ME, since I have a certain academic background and certain expectations for resources and connections, I would not be comfortable going to a PhD program without a stellar placement record. I'm insecure that way. I don't trust myself to be an amazing standout at a no-name school. I expect I'm more likely to be a decent candidate from an amazing school. Everybody's different, but as far as Its(Not)AboutMe's strategy of applying to a bunch of top programs -- well it's a viable strategy, and I can respect it.

 

I don't take it personally Don'tHate, I just think that your doling out of advice can come across as just as naive as the attitude you're reading into other people (that you can go to any school and be competitive on the market). I have NEVER met a PhD applicant who was unaware of how bad the market is and who was not taking that into consideration when choosing where to apply. 

[DontHate]

PatientAgony, how certain are you that you want to focus on Victorian Lit? That's the big question.

Edited February 11, 2013 by DontHate

[jazzyd]

Totally agree, but I think that the better ranked the school, the better your chances are going to be.

 

 

What are the rankings that matter though? Overall department or subfield? I've been accepted to Indiana Bloomington, which is ranked around 22 overall I think, but is one of the three best places to do Victorian, which is what I plan on studying. If I get into a better ranked school overall, would it be more sensible to go with Indiana or the program that is better ranked?

 

This is why, in my unimportant opinion of course, it's much less productive to go by straight rank (which varies across sub-fields and subsubetc-fields) than by placement record. Obviously these records can change over the course of time it takes for one to finish their doctorate, but it's a bad sign if hardly anyone from a department is finding work even if there's a "big name" attached to the program. Correct me if I'm wrong, but ranking is determined by the research a school puts out, and it's not a guarantee that the driving forces behind a department's impact are willing to work with or work closely with incoming graduate students.

[InHacSpeVivo]

Is it as much about rankings as placement?

 

I only applied to programs with excellent placement records, regardless of ranking, and that includes some "second tier" programs. As long as you can get a good job (or at least have a decent shot through alumni netowrking etc) the ranking doesn't seem to matter as much.

 

That's not to say top programs don't have amazing placement, just that in looking for programs that were a good fit for my interests, I found a number of programs that aren't in the top 10, but do have great placement rates (like Pitt, Colorado, and UF).

[DontHate]

For me, personally, I went for broke applying only to hyper-competitive programs with big names, big research output, and fantastic placement records. It's very likely that I won't get in anywhere. In which case, I'll apply again as many times as I feel like it until I get tired and find a new dream. I didn't apply to any second tier programs. 

[lovinliterature]

Is it as much about rankings as placement?

 

I only applied to programs with excellent placement records, regardless of ranking, and that includes some "second tier" programs. As long as you can get a good job (or at least have a decent shot through alumni netowrking etc) the ranking doesn't seem to matter as much.

 

That's not to say top programs don't have amazing placement, just that in looking for programs that were a good fit for my interests, I found a number of programs that aren't in the top 10, but do have great placement rates (like Pitt, Colorado, and UF).

 

Hey, Pericles.  I totally agree with your approach, but how do you find out about placement records?  I have asked some schools, but it's pretty hard to figure out.  They all say things like, "We have alumni at University X, University, Y, and University B" rather than "80% of our graduates in the last three years are working tenure track jobs."  How are you getting your information?

[jazzyd]

^This was more or less my approach as well. My mentality was that I'd rather go for broke and see what happens, than be tempted by a program that I wasn't overly enthusiastic about going to just because I wasn't accepted by any place else. Were I planning on applying again, I would add in more of these programs and take away some more prestigious ones. 

 

That being said, I applied to way way way too many programs. Once I got into double digits I went kinda nuts. In hindsight, I might have applied to only half as many programs.

Edited February 11, 2013 by jazzy dubois

[wreckofthehope]

Is it as much about rankings as placement?

 

I only applied to programs with excellent placement records, regardless of ranking, and that includes some "second tier" programs. As long as you can get a good job (or at least have a decent shot through alumni netowrking etc) the ranking doesn't seem to matter as much.

 

That's not to say top programs don't have amazing placement, just that in looking for programs that were a good fit for my interests, I found a number of programs that aren't in the top 10, but do have great placement rates (like Pitt, Colorado, and UF).

 

Out of upvotes, but YES.

[InHacSpeVivo]

Hey, Pericles.  I totally agree with your approach, but how do you find out about placement records?  I have asked some schools, but it's pretty hard to figure out.  They all say things like, "We have alumni at University X, University, Y, and University B" rather than "80% of our graduates in the last three years are working tenure track jobs."  How are you getting your information?

 

Primarily through a lot of googling. It's definitely easier for some programs than others. For programs that didn't post percentiles, I spoke with my advisor about the program's placement history for a rough idea and went through the NRC data.

 

Edit: Also, I noted where all of my POIs went while doing research on various departments. Of course this is completely anecdotal, but it definitely gave me a sense of where to direct my attention (and I came across a couple of programs I wouldn't have otherwise considered that way).

Edited February 11, 2013 by Pericles II.ii.48

[waparys]

^This was more or less my approach as well. My mentality was that I'd rather go for broke and see what happens, than be tempted by a program that I wasn't overly enthusiastic about going to just because I wasn't accepted by any place else. Were I planning on applying again, I would add in more of these programs and take away some more prestigious ones. 

 

That being said, I applied to way way way too many programs. Once I got into double digits I went kinda nuts. In hindsight, I might have applied to only half as many programs.

 

You're in at three amazing places. If you're actually planning on applying again...

[wreckofthehope]

Primarily through a lot of googling. It's definitely easier for some programs than others. For programs that didn't post percentiles, I spoke with my advisor about the program's placement history for a rough idea and went through the NRC data.

 

 

If you're really dedicated and pathetic, you can do what I did: most schools have a complete list of recent dissertations... go through and search every person to see where they are now, then check this against any official placement stats schools give you. 

 

 

Also, if a department doesn't have this information, and placement information, freely available...while I wouldn't say it's a direct indicator that their placement isn't that good, I would definitely be wary and investigate further... don't take their word that they "regularly place students in tenure track jobs in top universities" (as I've seen on more than one web page). Because, really? If your placement is that great, let's see the details!

Edited February 11, 2013 by wreckofthehope