0% Confidence of Acceptance

[The Whistler]

Wow, Stephanie, that sounds really impressive.

 

That said, why do I even hope? We had four literature professors at my university. The only one who got his PhD in the US was my MA thesis advisor, and he is the only one who ever reviewed my WS, which is an excerpt from the said thesis. Sure, it was an A, but the real question is was it an A compared to the majority of students there who didn't even like to read, and therefore wrote crappy papers because they hated it, or was it an A because it was actually good, compared to papers people at US universities write?

 

And, as I said on the other thread, publications? People who are not professors actually have those in the real world? Oh, lord, I'm screwed.

 

In about a month or so, I'll be starting a thread called "Charity work - help reduce the amount of The Whistler's suckyness for Fall 2014 applications"

 

Is suckyness even a word?

[Troppman]

Wow, Stephanie, that sounds really impressive.

 

That said, why do I even hope? We had four literature professors at my university. The only one who got his PhD in the US was my MA thesis advisor, and he is the only one who ever reviewed my WS, which is an excerpt from the said thesis. Sure, it was an A, but the real question is was it an A compared to the majority of students there who didn't even like to read, and therefore wrote crappy papers because they hated it, or was it an A because it was actually good, compared to papers people at US universities write?

 

And, as I said on the other thread, publications? People who are not professors actually have those in the real world? Oh, lord, I'm screwed.

 

In about a month or so, I'll be starting a thread called "Charity work - help reduce the amount of The Whistler's suckyness for Fall 2014 applications"

 

Is suckyness even a word?

Thanks for sharing this, I can totally relate on "was it an A compared to the majority students..." By talking about my credentials in a round-about yet self-important way, I meant to actually suggest that these things don't in any way make or break an admissions decision (apparently). The interesting thing about my writing sample is that my advisor told me it was some of my most clear yet still theoretically important writing. He told me this in the face of my angst over "dumbing down" complicated ideas. Ironically, some of the feedback that I received from the journal that invited the piece was that it was too dumbed down and thus threatened the integrity of the theories from which it drew. D'oh! At least I have the opportunity to rewrite it... Can't please everybody, and audience seems primary. I also know a student who had two peer-reviewed full lengths as an undergrad, four or so languages, grants to travel all over the world, and didn't get admitted to a single PhD program her first (maybe now second) time. And, I know a student who went to a really not-so-great undergrad institution with (relatively) poor grades and no credentials (per se). The latter student was recently admitted to an ivy school with full funding, first try. Real talk! My intensity thus-far has yielded highly ambivalent results.

Edited February 10, 2013 by StephanieDelacour

[DontHate]

The truth is, in response to your concerns Stephanie, I've heard from a bunch of my professors that publications are absolutely not expected from applicants before they enter the program. It may very well be that having too much professionalization on your CV looks somewhat bad at this level. You want to look prepared for graduate-level work, but as you already said, "malleable," coachable, trainable, open to new ideas, etc. 

 

Though I can't help but assume that having presented your writing sample at a conference makes it a much stronger piece of work than mine could possibly be (I would never want to present this piece of crap anywhere at this point).

[lovinliterature]

I post only to affirm your angst (implicitly, and necessarily, for narcissistic reasons as well). Hopefully this post can help others...  I, too, have received only bad news this season. My writing sample was flawed, sure. But it was well received by my advisor, and also by a large audience at a major conference (in slightly different form)--even invited to a journal. My undergrad transcript is not-so-hot, but it was also not-so-hot working full-time, being an athlete by vocation, and losing immediate family members to tragic causes. I was not partying as an undergrad. I was working, and dealing with constant phone calls from the ICU and ER. My MA is from a lesser known program, and yet I still managed a 4.0 here while presenting at several conferences and publishing a handful of pieces (book reviews, reviews, full-articles) in various peer-reviewed journals of immediate relevance to my proposed doctoral study. In addition, I made a point of undergoing language training (2 languages, for a total of 30 hours [summer immersions]) while enrolled in my MA program.

Although I didn't receive a TA or RA position (they are scarce here), I was still given many opportunities to guest-speak/lecture at multiple campuses during my two year MA program. All of this to say that I really don't know what I could have done better this season. Perhaps my SOP--drafted a million times and very relevant to current faculty interests at each program--didn't evince a sexy-enough project? I contacted professors and current students at each program to get a feel of fit and camaraderie--maybe I shouldn't have? I only applied to schools that I found to be a great match given faculty and student projects--maybe I should have just shot for the top ten or something? Perhaps being so ambitious as a neophyte reflects poorly as it could indicate that I am not so malleable. Wouldn't that be ironic? Either way, I am already proofing another article and submitting multiple abstracts (As well as scouting funded 1-year-MA programs with rolling admissions [they do exist]) in preparation for a round two. I could also pull my GRE scores up a tad and find a better letter writer... I still haven't heard from three programs (none of which are represented yet on the boards), so I'm still in the game per se...

Hi, guys.  I'm going to offer you a slightly different perspective:  I don't know what you could do to be a "better" candidate, and I truly believe that a lot of this process is luck.  I am currently getting an M.A. from quite a famous and respected school, and I and many of my colleagues are also experiencing some disappointment this season.  While some of us have been admitted to good programs, others have not yet heard anything positive.  Even for those of us who have been admitted, we've also been rejected by many programs.  Most of my colleagues applied to at least fifteen programs.  By and large, we all have good grades, great GRE scores, strong recommendations, conferences, and in some cases, publications.  Some of us even having teaching experience.  Still, we are experiencing a lot of rejection.  I don't know how or why admissions committees make their decisions, but I do believe there is a strong element of luck.  If this is something you really want, I would not give up hope.  

 

Wow, Stephanie, that sounds really impressive.

 

That said, why do I even hope? We had four literature professors at my university. The only one who got his PhD in the US was my MA thesis advisor, and he is the only one who ever reviewed my WS, which is an excerpt from the said thesis. Sure, it was an A, but the real question is was it an A compared to the majority of students there who didn't even like to read, and therefore wrote crappy papers because they hated it, or was it an A because it was actually good, compared to papers people at US universities write?

 

And, as I said on the other thread, publications? People who are not professors actually have those in the real world? Oh, lord, I'm screwed.

 

In about a month or so, I'll be starting a thread called "Charity work - help reduce the amount of The Whistler's suckyness for Fall 2014 applications"

 

Is suckyness even a word?

Ditto as well.  Don't give up hope.  Also, as for publications, I think most people google search respected journals and then follow the submission information.  Most journals have a fairly clear process for submission, and anyone can submit their article for publication.

[Swagato]

The truth is, in response to your concerns Stephanie, I've heard from a bunch of my professors that publications are absolutely not expected from applicants before they enter the program. It may very well be that having too much professionalization on your CV looks somewhat bad at this level. You want to look prepared for graduate-level work, but as you already said, "malleable," coachable, trainable, open to new ideas, etc. 

 

Though I can't help but assume that having presented your writing sample at a conference makes it a much stronger piece of work than mine could possibly be (I would never want to present this piece of crap anywhere at this point).

 

And this is precisely why, when venting last night, I fulminated about the standards expected of admitted PhD students at top-tier departments. On the one hand, I do not believe that every admitted student came in with a writing sample so blindingly good that it's the next thing to a Critical Inquiry piece. On the other hand, I do believe it was probably good enough that the adcom perceived that coachable, trainable potential in the writing (and the thought it displays). So where on earth is the middle ground?

[DontHate]

Swagato, therein lies the subjective nature of the process. It's not just that you have to look coachable, you have to be the kind of student that THEY want to coach. Maybe you remind them of a younger version of themselves... Maybe you are just exactly who they think could help them take their department in a new direction... A lot of it is about the projected fantasies of the adcomm that year.

[The Whistler]

Thanks for sharing this, I can totally relate on "was it an A compared to the majority students..." By talking about my credentials in a round-about yet self-important way, I meant to actually suggest that these things don't in any way make or break an admissions decision (apparently). The interesting thing about my writing sample is that my advisor told me it was some of my most lucidly clear yet still theoretically important writing. He told me this in the face of my angst over "dumbing down" complicated ideas. Ironically, some of the feedback that I received from the journal that invited the piece was that it was too dumbed down and thus threatened the integrity of the theories from which it drew. D'oh! At least I have the opportunity to rewrite it... Can't please everybody, and audience seems primary. I also know a student who had two peer-reviewed full lengths as an undergrad, four or so languages, grants to travel all over the world, and didn't get in to a single PhD program. And, I know a student who went to a really not-so-great undergrad institution with poor grades and no credentials. The latter student was recently was admitted to an ivy school with full funding, first try. Real talk! 

 

Basically, from everything you say, it seems everything comes down to luck. If your application is not abysmal, anything can happen. It just depends on who you get in the admissions committee. For both of our cases, let's pray that we get someone who likes dumbed down ideas, since that's what I do as well.

 

Though I can't help but assume that having presented your writing sample at a conference makes it a much stronger piece of work than mine could possibly be (I would never want to present this piece of crap anywhere at this point).

 

This. I mean, I get that they might accept me even though I come from the middle of nowhere, and even if I attended a small, extremely unknown university. But my WS has to be excellent for that to happen, and I have no idea how good it is. Half of the time I think they use my application as a coffee coaster.

 

I actually dreamt that one of my NYU POIs e-mailed me and said that maybe I should come to the US, and work in a deli, since PhD is not for everyone.

 

Ditto as well.  Don't give up hope.  Also, as for publications, I think most people google search respected journals and then follow the submission information.  Most journals have a fairly clear process for submission, and anyone can submit their article for publication.

 

Thank you. The publications thing was just a huge surprise. Makes me feel like I'm five, and I want to play with the big kids. Well, I guess I'll just have to sit tight, wait, and hope for the best.

[Troppman]

Swagato, therein lies the subjective nature of the process. It's not just that you have to look coachable, you have to be the kind of student that THEY want to coach. Maybe you remind them of a younger version of themselves... Maybe you are just exactly who they think could help them take their department in a new direction... A lot of it is about the projected fantasies of the adcomm that year.

Totally feelin' it. I also totally agree with your response to my post...And your other musings about the productivity of ressintement.  In attempting to compensate for less than stellar normal credentials (UG GPA, institutional prestige, etc) I might have over done it on the professional development side. And of course, I have to accept that If given the opportunity to mature as a scholar (by means of a PhD program), it could be the case that things i've put in print will haunt my career. Whether I live by yolo or some sort of eternal return mythos, "if i'm to die whether or not I try, I might as well let the dice fly!" This board has helped with perspective. There are applicants with credentials (and I mean extra-curriculars) that are nothing short of inspirational.

 

The process also comes down to the whole "If I am not for myself who will be for me, and if i'm only for myself what will I be" thing. :-)

Edited February 10, 2013 by StephanieDelacour

[bfat]

Is it possible that having too much of an "incestual" background can be a problem for admissions into a top program? I've ended up earning my BA and (will this spring earn) my MA from the same institution--which is not very well known or ranked--simply because of life circumstances. I have had some really great professors, but I don't even really like the school. It was a desperate fallback when I was an undergraduate because my financial situation hit the fan, and then a few years later (after life in the "real world") I was able to get a job there, so they paid for my MA. But now I'll have 2 degrees and most of my work/teaching experience at the same lackluster institution... could this be a kiss of death?

 

I suppose I could try for a second funded MA next year--there are a few good programs sort of near me, but the commute could be a nightmare (Capitol beltway, anyone? UGH).

[DontHate]

Generally I think it looks "better" to go elsewhere for your MA. But it also looks better, in the same sense, to go to well-known and highly-ranked programs for both BA and MA. At this point you have no control over that, so if there's nothing you can do about it now I suppose there's no point worrying about it.

[jazzyd]

Yes, this is something I have wondered about. The thing is, MAPH at Chicago regularly sends graduates into the PhD programs at Chicago. Conversations with various faculty members consistently resulted in the indication that academic incest was not nearly as much of a concern as it is in other, "regular" cases (i.e., BA -> PhD at the same institution). 

 

I've been told that Chicago can be a little different in that Chicago really really likes it's own grads. However, I've heard the MAPH -> PhD route isn't quite as direct as one might like and actually adds to more of a cut throat atmosphere... or, again, so I've heard.

 

I asked two mentoring professors about applying at Illinois and while neither mentioned that I would be at a disadvantage, they both discouraged me from applying here if only because there's really nothing 'left' in the sense that I've exhausted many of the resources of the English program already. Additionally, the department here is veeerry Brit lit based.

[InHacSpeVivo]

Wow, Stephanie, that sounds really impressive.

 

That said, why do I even hope? We had four literature professors at my university. The only one who got his PhD in the US was my MA thesis advisor, and he is the only one who ever reviewed my WS, which is an excerpt from the said thesis. Sure, it was an A, but the real question is was it an A compared to the majority of students there who didn't even like to read, and therefore wrote crappy papers because they hated it, or was it an A because it was actually good, compared to papers people at US universities write?

 

And, as I said on the other thread, publications? People who are not professors actually have those in the real world? Oh, lord, I'm screwed.

 

In about a month or so, I'll be starting a thread called "Charity work - help reduce the amount of The Whistler's suckyness for Fall 2014 applications"

 

Is suckyness even a word?

 

Any chance I can get in on that charity work thread? ;-)

[pomoisdead]

I'm really wondering if my teaching experience is going to do anything for me at this point, especially with all of this "malleable" talk. I haven't had time, to say the least, for writing much or publications since graduating from my MFA, but I have teaching experience through the roof. Thoughts? Some apps, like for UNH, really focus on asking about your teaching possibilities.

[DontHate]

I'm really wondering if my teaching experience is going to do anything for me at this point, especially with all of this "malleable" talk. I haven't had time, to say the least, for writing much or publications since graduating from my MFA, but I have teaching experience through the roof. Thoughts? Some apps, like for UNH, really focus on asking about your teaching possibilities.

 

It probably depends. I know that Maryland, for example, only gives 4-year fellowships, so they expect all their incoming PhD candidates to have a Master's degree and teaching experience. 

[Two Espressos]

Swagato, therein lies the subjective nature of the process. It's not just that you have to look coachable, you have to be the kind of student that THEY want to coach. Maybe you remind them of a younger version of themselves... Maybe you are just exactly who they think could help them take their department in a new direction... A lot of it is about the projected fantasies of the adcomm that year.

 

This is excellent.  A lot of posts on here--mine included-- iterate a lot of the same perspectives, but your above post brings some relatively new things to the table that I hadn't thought about before.

 

In attempting to compensate for less than stellar normal credentials (UG GPA, institutional prestige, etc) I might have over done it on the professional development side.

 

Should I be worried about this as well?  I'm a college senior, but I have (at least in my mind, as an undergraduate) lots of conference presentations: three at present, though I'll have six by the end of the year.  Granted, three of the presentations on my CV are or will be at my undergraduate institution, as receiving certain writing awards on campus requires that I present those prize-winning essays at our yearly undergraduate conference, and the other three are or will be at smaller, undergraduate-only events.

 

The CV I sent in my applications only had three conference presentations on it, but were I to apply next application season with the six presentations, should I be concerned about that?  Am I permitted to omit conference presentations from my CV, or is that an unacceptable practice?

[Porridge]

Is it possible that having too much of an "incestual" background can be a problem for admissions into a top program? I've ended up earning my BA and (will this spring earn) my MA from the same institution--which is not very well known or ranked--simply because of life circumstances. I have had some really great professors, but I don't even really like the school. It was a desperate fallback when I was an undergraduate because my financial situation hit the fan, and then a few years later (after life in the "real world") I was able to get a job there, so they paid for my MA. But now I'll have 2 degrees and most of my work/teaching experience at the same lackluster institution... could this be a kiss of death?

 

I suppose I could try for a second funded MA next year--there are a few good programs sort of near me, but the commute could be a nightmare (Capitol beltway, anyone? UGH).

In my experience. No. I'm in the same boat as you. I have received my first offer from a top institution.

 

It's the total package. 

[rems]

I live in Oklahoma... that statement is my life!

 

And yes, I am glad to see you feel my adjunct pain. And your clarification of my original point is accurate--I would hate to see someone get their hopes up and go down the adjunct path and get stuck there like me and a lot of my friends. And I think I've been to that creepy adjunct basement. It always smells like microwave pasta.

 

It does smell like microwave pasta!

[bluecheese]

The only reason those places smell like microwavable pasta is because microwavable pasta is made out of asbestos. 

[damequixote]

Asleepawake! Thanks for supplying me with my new and favorite avatar.

[Troppman]

Here's to good news this week!

[Swagato]

I received an extremely warm response from one department to my inquiring email. It's raised my hopes, even though at this point I dare not hope. But I would so love to get this one in hand.

[InHacSpeVivo]

Here's to good news this week!

 

Here here!

 

 

I received an extremely warm response from one department to my inquiring email. It's raised my hopes, even though at this point I dare not hope. But I would so love to get this one in hand.

 

I hope it's the program I'm aslo waiting to hear from. Either way, best of luck!

[InHacSpeVivo]

Another rejection (one of the American Studies programs). So much for that Monday morning optimism... good luck to everyone else this week!

[rems]

Just to shake things up (forgive me for not reading a lot of the stuff in the middle), I don't give a fuck about the Oxford comma. 

[Swagato]

Okay, I'll play along. Why is there even a debate concerning the Oxford comma? As far as I'm concerned, its presence or absence can completely change the meaning of a sentence. To wit:

 

"We invented the strippers, JFK, and Stalin."

 

versus

 

"We invented the strippers, JFK and Stalin."