SSHRC

[SVV]

I have a question for the PhD's on this board.

Are there any of you who were awarded a SSHRC/CGS and DO NOT have anything published in a peer-reviewed journal?

thanks,

Yep, still no official letter yet, but according to my department I've got a PhD SSHRC for the next 3 years - I'm 1 year into my program, now. I've never published anything, ever, let alone peer-reviewed. I've frequently been told by profs and administrators that your discipline heavily affects whether publications are important or less important (for winning SSHRC). I'm in History!

[Felan]

I am terribly confused.

My score was 18.1 for the doctoral competition.

Original score was 22.5 (applying from the US)

I'm going into my third year (needed 2 years of funding).

I got the:

"I regret to inform you that the council is not able to offer you the support requested.

...Should funds become available in the next six months...

Of 1834 apps... 970 awarded... success 52.9%............."

I don't understand.

See, this is precisely why several pages ago I warned people about getting overzealous about the scores - they're highly variable and by no means represent some kind of hard and fast cut-off point. As noted above, you're ranked against the other applications in your sub-committee, not against every other application, which means that it's entirely possible to get a SSHRC with a relatively low score or, more likely, to be denied a SSHRC with a relatively high score.

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear you were wait-listed, and that the discussion here about scores resulted in confusion and disappointment.

[Snasser]

See, this is precisely why several pages ago I warned people about getting overzealous about the scores...the discussion here about scores resulted in confusion and disappointment.

I think you have accidentally hit the nail upon the head: there is confusion and disappointment about a set of scores that are not really accurate barometers of achievement. The secrecy that shrouds these awards is ludicrous. When my husband was awarded an NSERC he was provided with a graph that plotted his application against others in his field and subdivided his score into the three major categories of achievement that are under consideration. This way, he understood where is greatest strengths and weaknesses were - information that would be even more valuable for an unsuccessful applicant. This was at the doctoral level, too, so the claims that providing this information to SSHRC applicants is completely bogus. In fact, NSERC has even more awards to hand out.

I got my score today. 15.3. Ouch! It went DOWN from last year. I would have been eligible for three years of funding and I am in History. The application included four international (three in Canada, one in the US) conferences, two book reviews in established and respected journals, a book chapter from Duke University Press, another from U of T press and two peer-reviewed journal articles, I have also helped to organize a conference. I have A's all along. My department endorsed me, my FGS endorsed me. I am left with no idea what it is I did wrong or what I need to improve on. My department assumed I would be getting a SSHRC this year, so they can't help me either.

[Sarah7]

The application included four international (three in Canada, one in the US) conferences, two book reviews in established and respected journals, a book chapter from Duke University Press, another from U of T press and two peer-reviewed journal articles, I have also helped to organize a conference.

Holy cow, Snasser, you've been busy! I am in my first year of a lit. PhD and had only one conference to put on the application at the time, since SSHRC accepts neither pending conferences nor a list of articles submitted for publication but unprinted as of yet. I don't understand how all your publications/conferences did not secure you funding or a spot on the waiting list at the very least. I personally would have thought that this would be the part of the application, along with reference letters and the study proposal, that carried the most weight, since I think most grad students would have very comparable results on the rest of the application (straight As, for example, as you mention). It makes you wonder what on earth you're supposed to do to better your chances... My sympathies to all those in that tought predicament.

Sarah

[canuckle]

See, this is precisely why several pages ago I warned people about getting overzealous about the scores...the discussion here about scores resulted in confusion and disappointment.

Yawn.

Yes we can't really tell much about the scores, but we're all going to be wondering about them regardless. At least thats what I think. I'm sure by now we all realize that trying to use logic to understand the SSHRC process is pointless--and this includes trying to figure out the 'base score' for things. As others pointed out, it'll vary by committee.

That being said, it is extremely frustrating to not get input into the strengths/ weaknesses of your application--certainly I agree with this, but I'm just suggesting that its probably futile to suggest that we don't try to over-analyze the scores. In case you haven't noticed for the last 75 pages, we're all trying to rather compulsively figure this process out :? BY discussing it, we all learn something and (hopefully) gain some insight.

And Snasser--that bites, man!! It does sounds like you have a pretty good academic CV (including pubs and grades) that no-one could argue with--so one could reasonably suppose that is not the problem. My guess is that the committee had some problem with your statement of interest (well, that's about all that's left!)? Maybe thinking that it wasn't do-able, you didn't have the background for it, or maybe its just something else like that they think they've already overfunded your area (please note, I'm not suggesting you Statement sucked or anything, I'm just trying to think out loud of the only reasons I could imagine they might take issue).

On that note, I finally got brave enough to sneak up and check my uni mailbox today--managing to stealth by my adviser who I owe a thesis draft to. I'm in for a CGS with 23.7 points. Just to give others some hope though, I'll be declining it/ trying to 'downgrade' it. However, my letter doesn't say that I can do this or offer me a choice. It just says "Please note that the offer of the CGS is conditional upon you remaining at a Canadian University". I'm hoping this is just an omission though. Does anyone know anything about how it works if one wants to decline the CGS for a regular SSHRC?

[Cree8tiveGyal]

Does anyone know anything about how it works if one wants to decline the CGS for a regular SSHRC?

I think that's something you'd definitely have to inquire with SSHRC or your Department about......I doubt that get too many people asking for less money! LOL...Congrats on the award, though!

[Snasser]

It just says "Please note that the offer of the CGS is conditional upon you remaining at a Canadian University". I'm hoping this is just an omission though. Does anyone know anything about how it works if one wants to decline the CGS for a regular SSHRC?

Congratulations! That is awesome! Not to worry, if you turn down a CGS because you're taking it outside of Canada, you will simply be offered a 3 or 4 year SSHRC fellowship instead: the tenure of the award depends on the year of your program when you begin to receive funding. Congrats, again!

I suspect it has to do with my proposal (it's gender stuff and I think it can really turn an audience off), it may have been too analytical and I might not have sounded 'excited' enough. We'll see. There is always next year. It is all just a lesson in patience and understanding.

[SVV]

I suspect it has to do with my proposal (it's gender stuff and I think it can really turn an audience off), it may have been too analytical and I might not have sounded 'excited' enough. We'll see. There is always next year. It is all just a lesson in patience and understanding.

Just wanted to encourage you not to give up on the gender angle - my proposal was extremely gender-centered, and despite my supervisor's advice not to, I even used the F-word (feminist! yikes!) in my proposal, and I've been funded. Hopefully that's not what affected your application's outcome, I would be pretty irritated to find out that anyone lost funding because of a focus on/interest in gender. It sounds like you have a pretty incredible CV/background, hopefully next year is your year!

[Felan]

Yawn.

Yes we can't really tell much about the scores, but we're all going to be wondering about them regardless. At least thats what I think. I'm sure by now we all realize that trying to use logic to understand the SSHRC process is pointless--and this includes trying to figure out the 'base score' for things. As others pointed out, it'll vary by committee.

That being said, it is extremely frustrating to not get input into the strengths/ weaknesses of your application--certainly I agree with this, but I'm just suggesting that its probably futile to suggest that we don't try to over-analyze the scores. In case you haven't noticed for the last 75 pages, we're all trying to rather compulsively figure this process out :? BY discussing it, we all learn something and (hopefully) gain some insight.

Futile or not, all I'm saying is that for people who, in the absence of any official info, find this thread and see unsubstantiated statements like "the cutoff must be 17.5" or whatever, it's not exactly helpful or encouraging. So maybe we should try not to make unsubstantiated statements and stick to discussion of more tangible aspects of the process - like how to make proposals more effective, etc.

[canuckle]

Futile or not, all I'm saying is that for people who, in the absence of any official info, find this thread and see unsubstantiated statements like "the cutoff must be 17.5" or whatever, it's not exactly helpful or encouraging. So maybe we should try not to make unsubstantiated statements and stick to discussion of more tangible aspects of the process - like how to make proposals more effective, etc.

In my opinion, if this thread is indeed populated by grad students, then they ought to be able to discern the difference between a fact and something written on an online forum (I hope). If we were to take out all the unsubstantiated comments from this thread, well, there wouldn't be a lot left (except for your comments, of course ). I think that by talking about it we have better clarified the issue for all concerned--the beauty of such open discussion is that the conversation organically evolves. If its not meeting your needs, open a "just the facts, ma'am" forum.

Personally, I myself welcome all aspects of supportive discussion, and would be happy to share any small bits of wisdom I may have with the SSHRC process.

[espressocup]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have a question for those of you who have received your letters - what does it say that one has to do to accept the award? Canada Post keeps losing my mail - they've lost cheques sent to me from my university, so this is an ongoing problem - and they've lost my SSHRC letter. I'm in Toronto and haven't received anything (even though other documents from Ottawa have arrived, even if they've been sent on Monday).

Just wondering what one has to do to accept the award, if there's anything else of note on there.

I deeply appreciate any help that one can give, you can probably imagine how horrible it is to know that your letter has been lost - and the ensuing tension.

[canuckle]

Thanks for the congrats snasser and Crea8tive!!

Snasser, do you and SVV know each other? If not, then maybe SVV would be kind enough to offer a more specific chat on your topic areas, seems as it sounds like you're both in roughly the same field...

I would agree that you shouldn't give up on your gender focus, if that's what your'e into. I would suggest trying to find a way to sound "enthusiastic' (as you mentioned, its rather silly--I know) and also a way to link your wider topic area into an issue of contemporary relevance (ie. 'policy implications') if that's possible. Hard to say more as its not really my field, but this seems a good start?

[canuckle]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have a question for those of you who have received your letters - what does it say that one has to do to accept the award? Canada Post keeps losing my mail - they've lost cheques sent to me from my university, so this is an ongoing problem - and they've lost my SSHRC letter. I'm in Toronto and haven't received anything (even though other documents from Ottawa have arrived, even if they've been sent on Monday).

Just wondering what one has to do to accept the award, if there's anything else of note on there.

I deeply appreciate any help that one can give, you can probably imagine how horrible it is to know that your letter has been lost - and the ensuing tension.

Welcome.

though I think we chatted about this a few pages back, my letter only says:

"To accept or refuse this award:

1- You must notify SSHRC of your desision within four weeks of the date of notice of award. To do so, send SSHRC an email at Fellowships@sshrc-crsh.gc.ca. You must notify SSHRC of your acceptance, even if you plan to defer the award.

2- you must also notify the Faculty of Grad Studies at the university you will attend of your decision"

So, it sounds like you need to send an email within four weeks of May 20 (letter date).

[espressocup]

Thanks, canuckle. I'm just paranoid and wanted to make sure there weren't any important forms or anything else along those lines. It's deeply appreciated.

[Sarah7]

have a question for those of you who have received your letters - what does it say that one has to do to accept the award?

You have four weeks from the date on the award to accept or decline. My letter was dated May 20th and I received it on the 26th. That means I had just over three weeks. If your letter is dated May 20th (which you won't know until you get the letter), then time's a-tickin'! I would contact your Faculty of Grad Studies and then SSHRC, and I would do it today so you can hopefully have some answers before the weekend. The four week deadline was actually the reason I started following this forum, because I too have had mail lost and was worried that my four weeks would be gone if indeed the letter was lost in the mail (luckily SSHRC was just running behind!).

Sarah

[jujujujunk]

I've been told that the cut off for my sub-committee was 18.6

My final score was 18.1, which puts me on the wait list.

They are unable to state how far on the list one's name sits.

As I understand, the scores don't really mean a whole lot, except in relation to one's subcommittee. For example, if I am in Fine Arts, my application goes to a subcommittee where it is re-evaluated (possibly keeping relative merit in mind). Within the Fine Arts, there could be other subcommittees where the cut off score is 17.1 or 16.9 or 20.2, or whatever. They said that the success rate in all subcommittees is the same 52.9%.

So, some people happened to be in less competitive sub-committees and some in more competitive ones. It's hard to say.

Having asked SSHRC all the questions I needed to ask, and having received responses to all my questions, I see that there isn't anything to be done. Now, it is a waiting game.

[canuckle]

I've been told that the cut off for my sub-committee was 18.6

My final score was 18.1, which puts me on the wait list.

They are unable to state how far on the list one's name sits.

As I understand, the scores don't really mean a whole lot, except in relation to one's subcommittee. For example, if I am in Fine Arts, my application goes to a subcommittee where it is re-evaluated (possibly keeping relative merit in mind). Within the Fine Arts, there could be other subcommittees where the cut off score is 17.1 or 16.9 or 20.2, or whatever. They said that the success rate in all subcommittees is the same 52.9%.

So, some people happened to be in less competitive sub-committees and some in more competitive ones. It's hard to say.

Having asked SSHRC all the questions I needed to ask, and having received responses to all my questions, I see that there isn't anything to be done. Now, it is a waiting game.

Good summary, jujujujunk! But in regards to:

"some people happened to be in less competitive sub-committees and some in more competitive ones. Its hard to say"

It seems to be more a matter of harder-scoring vs. softer-scoring subcommittees. However, the important take away point is that: "the success rate in all subcommittees is the same 52.9%". The score only really matters within the sub-committee. As such, all scores in one sub-committee are scored using the same judgmental criteria by the same group of people--while scores in other sub-committees are scored using the same judgmental criteria but by a different group of people. Since some of the points are subjective (ie. how good is this proposal?) then the relative value of the scores are different across sub-committees, but (hopefully) not within sub-committees. Thus, the system should be relatively fair within your sub-committee, but this leaves it open to debate how fair it might be across committees.

Beacuse, I guess, by the luck of the draw one could find oneself in a subcommittee with a bunch of awesome applicants (decreasing your chances) or in a sub-committee with a bunch of crappier ones (increasing your chances). However, I imagine that the overall odds are that our applications find themselves in fairly equal piles.

Overall though, this is the most important thing: "I see that there isn't anything to be done. Now, it is a waiting game"

[AcrossThePond]

Hi all,

I just received my letter today in the north of England...successfull for a one year award (with 23.4/30, up from 21 from the first round).

Thanks to everyone on the forum for being a great resource during the waiting game.

[frustrated]

Has anyone else from Vancouver/Lower Mainland received their letters? I live in Burnaby, and no letter yet! I'm getting really frustrated now.

[edgarthellama]

Hey AcrossThePond - congrats! Just wondering - what's your program/department?

Hi all,

I just received my letter today in the north of England...successfull for a one year award (with 23.4/30, up from 21 from the first round).

Thanks to everyone on the forum for being a great resource during the waiting game.

[SVV]

Has anyone else from Vancouver/Lower Mainland received their letters? I live in Burnaby, and no letter yet! I'm getting really frustrated now.

I'm in Victoria, and no letter for me, yet.

[ogopogo]

Has anyone else from Vancouver/Lower Mainland received their letters? I live in Burnaby, and no letter yet! I'm getting really frustrated now.

I got mine on Monday in Vancouver, UBC area.

Also, for those of you with letters lost in the mail, you don't need the letter to accept the award (if you know you got one), but eventually you will need the 'notice of award' that comes with it in order to activate your payments, which you will want to do at least one month before the start date of the award.

I also think that the scores discussion might lead to a few misguided remarks, this is an online discussion forum after all, but on the whole it has helped, since now we know more about how they work (consistent only within subcommittees, constant rate of success, etc.). And this discussion will be particularly helpful for independents applying next year, who will be wondering how reliable an indicator the initial score is when they get their letters next February.

[EJBL]

Hello all, got my letter this week and wanted to contribute to the information sharing.

Applied via the external stream, will be attending an overseas uni next year (have not yet begun doctoral work) for history/sociology.

Initial score, 23.5, final score 20.0.

Offered "super SSHRC", will be turning it down in favour of the 4-year 20k version because I'm very attached to the uni I'll be attending next year.

So, some money back in the pot for anyone in my 'subsection' on the waitlist.

Something I find odd: In my case, if I stayed in Canada I'd get more money. However, if I stayed in Canada, my studies would also be subsidized by the Canadian/Provincial government (provincial support of public post-secondary institutions). Seems very strange that you can't take the larger award to international institutions where you are responsible for paying all costs associated with your studies... Anyone know why this is? Has anyone heard of someone being able to keep the super SSHRC at a non-Canadian school? I'm wondering about the last question because I remember reading that the larger award could only be taken outside the country in "exceptional circumstances" and I'm wondering what that might constitute.

Thanks to all who have been posting information and updates - really helped during the protracted waiting period!

[espressocup]

Also, for those of you with letters lost in the mail, you don't need the letter to accept the award (if you know you got one), but eventually you will need the 'notice of award' that comes with it in order to activate your payments, which you will want to do at least one month before the start date of the award.

Is this the same form that's available on the website here http://www.sshrc.ca/site/using-utiliser ... ng.aspx#a6 ?

So it's just a letter and then the activation forms?

Thanks in advance..

[kaje]

Yes, that