Bummed about my situation in my PhD program

[janie_complainy]

Hi all,

I see that there are a lot of people on this forum posting about how they hate their graduate program, but I don't want to hijack anyone else's thread, so I'm starting my own in search of advice. I created this gradcafe account specifically to get some feedback about this question, as my family and friends don't really understand the way another graduate student would.

So this is my first year (going into my second semester) in a PhD program at a very reputable school, in a fabulous program for my interests (which, loosely defined, are somewhere between cognitive neuroscience and language acquisition in children). For obvious reasons, I won't mention the name of the university or the specific program name, which is unique enough to identify.

I commute about an hour each way to school (sometimes more), but I don't really mind the drive at all. I am very interested in the research going on in my lab, and my advisor isn't so bad (she's very smart, but a little weird). I chose this school over one that is closer (and with a "better name") because I really wanted to work specifically in this lab, with someone as well established in the field as she is.

I liked my classes last semester, and I find my own research to be coming along nicely and it interests me. But I seriously can't stand any of the people in my lab/classes.

Okay-- maybe that's overstating it. But let me put it this way: none of the time I spend with other PhD/graduate students is enjoyable. I haven't clicked with anyone, and this is unusual for me... I did not have this problem in my undergraduate studies nor in the 2 years working doing research for a nonprofit organization after I graduated (I talk more to my former coworkers than I do to my new fellow students!) It's not as if I haven't tried, or given them a chance......... I'm just not happy when I'm there.

Now, that being said, I am getting a nice stipend to live on and they are waiving tuition in full, so I really should not complain. But I was so happy as an undergrad (and no, not because I was a party animal or anything... it just felt like a better fit for me in terms of the program and people), and to say "oh well, just 5 more years to suffer through, right?" and hearing my parents say "you're not there to make friends, you're there to get your PhD" etc etc make me feel like a spoiled brat.

But is anyone else out there as unhappy as I am in their PhD program, and thinking of leaving?

I know transfer is not really an option. And I know being a commuter means not experiencing the academic life in the same way (I live with my boyfriend who I met as an undergraduate and we've been dating 4 years. So I don't want to move). But I just feel trapped and unhappy.

Sorry for the long post. Any feedback is welcome. And thanks if you actually read this far.

[radioalfredio]

I'm currently out of school and applying for PhD programs, so my advice is limited to my experience in an MA program, which I acknowledge is a much shorter time commitment.

I had a hard time making friends during my first semester in my MA program, and it wasn't until my second semester that I really started to click with people. The second year was even better socially. I think grad school can make people competitive about grades, pubs, etc. and a lot of people are used to being the big fish in the small pond, so to speak. Sometimes it can just take people a while to let their guards down. Remember, there is always a new group of people coming in next year, and maybe you'll find some kindred spirits among them.

Have you tried getting involved with your school's graduate student association or a similar organization? That might be a good way to get to know other graduate students from outside of your department.

I really hope things start to look up for you!

[fuzzylogician]

I bet, after just one semester, that there are still many people in your program who you haven't gotten to know well enough. Maybe people in your cohort or your lab aren't a good personality match with yours but someone in another lab or another year is? Making friends takes time, but it sounds like your personal situation isn't allowing you to stay too long on campus outside of classes and that probably makes the situation more difficult. Have you tried attending departmental events or just hanging out in common areas when there are no classes? Are you allowed to take classes with more senior students or only those from your cohort/lab -- taking classes in different concentrations could help you meet different kinds of people.

You should probably give yourself more time before you decide that your program is a bad fit in terms of friends, but if you do decide that this is the case, I would not dismiss it is an insignificant complaint. The friends you will make now will be your colleagues in the future - the people you collaborate with, meet at conferences, who invite you to give talks at their schools, review your papers, etc. These connections are just as important as the relationships your form with professors. If you truly see no prospect of having meaningful friendships with anyone in your program, I think you will need to reevaluate your choice to attend your current program and find ways to professionalize more.

[StrangeLight]

what i wrote here was very mean. so i took it out. and i'll replace it with this.

you don't need to be friends with your coworkers, which is what your fellow grad students are. coworkers. it would be a colossal mistake to jeopardize your relationship with your professors by transferring programs because you don't have friends in your graduate program. as long as you have some friends, in any capacity, to hang out with where you live, you don't need to be anything more than cordial with other grad students. so get friends you like, wherever they are. but do not throw away your career because you mistake your coworkers for people that are supposed to be your only source of friendship.

also, there many be students who enroll next year that you like. or the year after. have some perspective. treat grad school like a job, because it is.

Edited January 23, 2012 by StrangeLight

[StrangeLight]

let me clarify, while i think it IS very important to have friends while you are in graduate school (and to have a social life), i don't think those friends need to be your fellow graduate students. so if you have friends, any friends, right now, then just maintain cordial working relationships with your coworkers and carry on. if you have no friends at all (which didn't sound like it, considering you're commuting to your program from your previous residence), then that's another matter, to which i would still say: find friends outside of your program and just don't try to be friends with people you don't like.

[ktel]

If you truly see no prospect of having meaningful friendships with anyone in your program, I think you will need to reevaluate your choice to attend your current program and find ways to professionalize more.

I'm going to agree partially with StrangeLight. I think it's pretty extreme to cast doubt on an entire program because you're not making any close friends there. I'm very friendly with a lot of students in my program, but we're not very close friends. I would probably never hang out with them outside of school, but I get along with them fine in classes and in the lab. I've focused more on making friends with my rugby teammates, who I find I have much more in common with. Social fulfillment can be found elsewhere.

Now, I could perhaps understand leaving if everybody in your program was so annoying and obnoxious that you actually can't stand being around them at all. That would be difficult to deal with.

[BrazilianGuy]

Try www.phdcomics.com (amazing comics!!!)

Seriously:

A person must to do what makes he/she happy!

Whether is attending a PhD or quitting it...

[fuzzylogician]

There are two aspects to consider - life/friendship during the program, which above posters seem to define (roughly) as "someone who you would go out for a beer with", and collegial relationships, which is more along the lines of what I was aiming for: the ability to create a network of colleagues/friends while in the program. If you are considering a career in academe but are unable to develop any kind of network while in school, I think that is a serious problem. If none of your colleagues are acceptable drinking buddies, of course that is less of a problem (as long as you have friends elsewhere). Being an outcast for 5 years is still no fun, though, but extremes aside you should be able to develop professional relationships with students as well as professors while in a PhD program, even if you don't make best-friends there.

[Eigen]

From my experience, I'll also add how much of a killer a long commute is to really making friends with a new cohort.

I did the hour commute thing in undergrad, and it really made it hard to get close to people. From seeing how it's effected people who are trying it in my graduate program, it's even worse.

So much of our socializing happens spontaneously and after hours in the labs, that it would be really hard to have met and gotten to know the people I'm closest to if I lived farther away and worked a more consistent (typical) schedule.

I'll also second (or third, I guess) the advice that a new class of students comes in every year. It's amazing how different the classes can be.

And don't be afraid to get out and meet people outside of your classes and program- some of the people I enjoy hanging out with the most are from other programs entirely, that I've met either randomly or through our graduate student associations events.

[Mal83]

I'm going to recommend the website meetup.com, it's a site for all kinds of social gatherings all over the country ranging from wine tastings to Star Trek fan clubs. I too haven't really clicked with people in my program and my commute is less than ideal as well, so I stumbled upon this website and found a cooking group right here in my little town. I went to my first one the other day and it was just really nice to gather with new people in a comfortable laid back setting and cook with them, it was a very pleasant way to spend a Saturday afternoon and I would definitely go again. It makes you feel less isolated to just start getting out and doing these kinds of things. As long as you have a bit of social life what's the difference if that includes your classmates or not?

[janie_complainy]

Thanks so much for the feedback all... and by the way StrangeLight (or anyone else), I don't really mind if you write things that are mean, this is the internet-- I understand that my asking for advice here may end up with lots of people telling me, harshly, what I already believe to be true (that I'm being a brat). But thanks for the thought in retracting it anyway... though now of course I'm curious to hear what it really said.

Anyway, I think I should clarify in terms of what a couple of people have said: I'm not talking about making friends to have a beer with, I do still have friends in my area. I mean that I actively dislike people enough that I don't want to go to any departmental events, parties, lunches, anything-- it's painful to sit through them and try to connect with these people (and I have tried on several occasions... I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way either, because there is another new PhD student--who I also don't like very much, lol-- but she also avoids all departmental events and is even more disconnected from fellow students than I am). So yes, it worries me because these are the people I'll have to mingle with professionally after school as well. (Sorry if I made that confusing in my OP by mentioning the word "friends"-- what I meant was that, whenever I bring this topic up to my parents or people whose advice I trust, they assume that my saying "I don't like the people in my program" means "I'm not making enough friends").

In terms of joining other groups outside my program, I already feel kind of overwhelmed with the program requirements as is, so I am hesitant to take on more commitments outside the scope of my area of study. But I am going to stick it out at least for the spring semester, that much I am sure of, so maybe new people will come in and stir up this stagnant group of people. I just never thought I'd feel this miserable in graduate school, and it's not even because of my classes or my lab.

Edited January 23, 2012 by janie_complainy

[StrangeLight]

thanks for the clarification. as for what mean things i said, i basically told you to act like an adult and swore at you a lot (for real), but then i realized you might be young or in a new location and therefore have absolutely no one to talk to. now i know that this is about a dislike of your coworkers, i can say:

suck it up. in your entire life, you will often have to work with people, and work well with them, when you actively dislike them as human beings. just be thankful they're not family members that you HAVE to spend time with! if you don't want to go to social events with them, then don't. in my own program (which is admittedly less collaborative than yours) there are people who never come to any departmental social event and usually can't even be found on campus except in the classroom, and no one holds it against them. they still win departmental fellowships, professors still talk about them as examples of great students, and grad students still think of them when putting together conference panels.

if and when you get a tenured job at a university, you'll be working with people you can't stand as human beings. and you'll both be there for life (or until another job comes along). so dealing with people you hate in a way that doesn't affect anyone's work is a skill you must learn NOW.

don't hang out with them. at departmental events, DO go if you already have to be on campus that day (skip it if it means commuting just for that event), but don't stay long at the event, and spend your time talking to professors, not grad students. or hell, just talk to the staff. making the secretaries like you will go a long way, and odds are they're very nice, normal people. if you read an article and you know it may be relevant for a fellow grad student's work, send it to them. say "hey, i thought this would be relevant for you." if you're putting together a conference panel, ask some fellow grad students to be on it. build a professional relationship with these jerks, not a personal one. it is possible to do, most "networking" is professional rather than personal.

i often send articles or calls for papers to people i don't like because i see it's relevant for them. and guess what? then they start sending that stuff to me. and i know that, years later, if they're putting together a panel or a collection, they'll think of me. but that doesn't mean i get beers with them or hang out with them.

know the difference between a colleague and a friend. it matters. change your thinking on this issue before you go quitting grad school for what is easily the WORST reason i've ever heard ("i hate the grad students"). really... it's the WORST reason. it will kill your career to admit to professors that you're leaving because you don't like the grad students. they won't write you good LORs for another program, if they write them at all, because this is such an unprofessional reason to bail on their program. you will burn bridges with professors. so learn to live with the grad students. be an adult.

[rising_star]

I have to agree with StrangeLight. I don't like all of my colleagues and avoid spending time with quite a few of them. But, if I see a new article that's in their area of interest or a grant that person might apply to, I send it along. Some--though definitely not all--of them thank me and an even smaller number send me things. BUT, I know that being professional and cordial is the way to go. One day one of these people could be in the position to help me get a job, grant, or publication, and I want them to remember me as the person that was always professional, nice, and tried to be helpful to others.

[emmm]

It sounds as though your colleagues/fellow grad students have really poor social skills. By behaving in a friendly, professional manner, you are leaving open the possibility for a better relationship in the future. At some point, presumably, they're going to have to learn how to interact with others. Even in the sciences, collaborations are common. Focus on developing good relationships with your professors and your advisor, and, as others said, maybe the next batch of incoming grad students will be more promising.

[Cosmos]

A lot of good advice has already been offered, so I will only add one thing. Have you considered that this may be more related to your attitude than to the actual students around you? I could be completely off base, but I have had personal experiences where I arrive somewhere and feel intense dislike for those around me, grouping them together as a homogeneous 'other' that have nothing in common with me. It is a really extreme (and probably false) position to contend that every single one of your peers has no qualities that you can respect/admire/find fun or interesting. Dig a little deeper? I transferred schools in my second year of undergrad because I was really unhappy in first year... I experienced a bit of a negative spiral where I felt lonely and different --> preferred to be by myself --> felt more lonely --> stayed by myself more until everyone around me had formed close friendships in my 'absence' and I was worse off than ever. In retrospect, if I had given them more of a chance we might have become great friends.

That being said, I do believe we have pretty strong and immediate intuitions (for the most part) about whether we will get along with someone. I suppose this is 'clicking'. You can meet someone in 5 minutes and already feel like they are your best friends, and you can know someone your whole life and still feel awkward around them. I can totally feel your pain, I know what it's like to feel alone and it really does suck. But there is hope yet! New grad students, other people at the school, random encounters in coffee shops... Like everyone else says, I think you should stick it out and try and be professional with your cohort, try and see their good sides, and you can fulfil that social need through other people. Getting into a good grad program like you're in is a really special thing, and I'm sure if you stick it out you will meet lots of interesting people and come out with a great degree. Try and spend more time on campus! And you always have your boyfriend to laugh about your coworkers with.

Hope this ramble was slightly helpful..

[Tall Chai Latte]

It's nice to read all these good advice. Similar to Cosmos, when I first came to my current grad program for interview, I felt an instant dislike, to both people and surroundings. Eventually I chose to attend the program because, after some rational thinking, I decided experiencing new environment will be good for me. The "instant dislike" lasted about a year or so after I started my program, and all the issues I had with not able to find a thesis lab, endless rotations, having only acquaintances in the program all added to the "dislike". After some time, although I can't say I like everything here 100%, it has become much better, and I start to feel like perhaps I do belong here after all (going to the gym and run also helps). Just give these people things some time, and take good care of yourself by doing some exercise regularly.

[gouache]

I definitely feel you. I spent a year doing a Speech Pathology master's program (but not commuting) and I didn't like anyone in my program, I felt like a social outcast, and it was seriously draining/demoralizing/depressing. I ended up leaving the program, but mostly the reason for that was that I hated SLP. But I do wonder whether or not I'd be an SLP now if I had "clicked" more with my cohort.

Now I'm doing a post-bacc in art and commuting an hour each way. It is VERY hard to make friends that way but I've been able to make some friends, at the very least good acquaintances. So it is possible, even with a commute. It sounds to me like the issue isn't that you're commuting, it's your cohort. That being said, I definitely agree with what people are saying on here about different classes coming in. Next year's class might be your type of people. I would consider discussing it with your advisor, and see what they say, re: your cohort being your future colleagues.

Edited to add: I also was getting made fun of by this one awful girl in my SLP program, and then my one friend left after the first semester. All of this to say, my leaving my program is probably not the course of action you should take, hahaha.

Edited February 10, 2012 by gouache

[SomedaySLP]

I definitely feel you. I spent a year doing a Speech Pathology master's program (but not commuting) and I didn't like anyone in my program, I felt like a social outcast, and it was seriously draining/demoralizing/depressing. I ended up leaving the program, but mostly the reason for that was that I hated SLP. But I do wonder whether or not I'd be an SLP now if I had "clicked" more with my cohort.

Now I'm doing a post-bacc in art and commuting an hour each way. It is VERY hard to make friends that way but I've been able to make some friends, at the very least good acquaintances. So it is possible, even with a commute. It sounds to me like the issue isn't that you're commuting, it's your cohort. That being said, I definitely agree with what people are saying on here about different classes coming in. Next year's class might be your type of people. I would consider discussing it with your advisor, and see what they say, re: your cohort being your future colleagues.

Edited to add: I also was getting made fun of by this one awful girl in my SLP program, and then my one friend left after the first semester. All of this to say, my leaving my program is probably not the course of action you should take, hahaha.

If you don't mind me asking, where were you in school for SLP? I'm applying to SLP programs now and hope I won't end up in a program I hate enough to make me leave. Was it mostly the girls? Or the program too?

[gouache]

SLP-Allie, I'll PM you about it so it doesn't derail the conversation here.