ryanlikesvespas Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 Ok, real quick with my situation: I finished my BA in History in May 09. Started MA in History in August 09, and completed all course work in 12 months, and enrolled in the thesis course in August 2010. I'm currently in the Air Force and found out and left for flight training soon after. I received an "Incomplete" for the thesis course, and have something like 7 years to complete it. I was not required to write a thesis during my undergrad, and my graduate work was full of courses with the "read a book in a week, write a 3 page book review, and give a 5 minute presentation to your peers" sorts of classes. I did write a few original 12-15 page papers for professional conferences as an Undergrad and first semester Graduate student. Ok, so fast forward to present. I still haven't started on writing this damn thesis. The clock is ticking, I'm getting antsy, and know I need to get the ball rolling. I have little interest in pursuing a PhD at this point, like I did when starting grad school. I have 8 years left of my 20 years until retirement in the Air Force, and have thought about possibly pursuing community college or online teaching work down the road. So the thesis... Because I have been out of the loop for a year and half or so, I've kind of lost contact with my advisor (who is also the dept chair). I've sent him two emails over the last few months with no response. For all I know, he's on sabbatical. Or he was paid for the course I took with him, thinks I bailed, and isn't answering me. My questions to him have pretty much been exactly what I'm here seeking... Was anyone else lost when it came to beginning your thesis? Overwhelmed? Confused? My research interests are in early American colonial history, and I interned at two maritime museums. My institutions thesis handbook is very broad, with nothing even specific for the humanities. Hell, I don't even know how many pages I need to be shooting for, as I've read here and other places it ranges wildly. As for content, am I looking to write an historical narrative of something specific (a person, battle, ship, town) or something more broad? I know you must walk a line between to broad and too narrow. Maybe I just have too much pride to call my advisor and ask him these questions well after I should have when I enrolled, but was too busy flying airplanes. If anyone can offer any information, support, ect, I would be extremely grateful. I want to get this thing done. I'm not looking to change historical thought or break ground on new ideology. I'm looking to get my $20,000 piece of paper and move on with my life. Thanks so much! </rant>
LLajax Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 I think it would be wise to get back into contact with a professor/advisor/mentor/someone you feel comfortable asking from your former history department as you can ask them the basic questions (e.g. page length). If you've kept in contact with any people from the program, you might think about getting in touch with them and asking them a few question (how did you get started?) As for picking a topic, there's more than a few ways of going about it. You can start with a specific person/event you know you like or are interested in (Battle of Crecy, the Duke of Wellington, etc.), or you get work with a broader period and some "thing" (ex. Naval ship building in the late 18th century). Also, you could start with some historical problem or question that has bugged you before (Ex. How did King Leopold's Congo get out of control? How did the Vatican manage its finances throughout WWII?). Alternatively, you could watch the History Channel until something catches your attention (there was a great documentary recenty on the Little Ice Age), then google the people who were interviewed in the documentary/tv show and check into their research, and maybe get into contact with them. There's lots of a ways to go about it, and if you pick something and then decide that after a few months/weeks of research, you're more interested in a side question that has developed, that works also. Additionally, there's different types of research projects that can result in a thesis. You might want to do something where you look over an entire genre of documents during a period, or you might want to go the historiography route and look over how something has been researched and written about. Just a few suggestions- hopefully this helps!
ryanlikesvespas Posted January 24, 2012 Author Posted January 24, 2012 LLajax, thanks for the response. I grew a pair and emailed my thesis advisor, explained to him my situation, a few stupid questions I have (length, depth, etc), and a topic I was considering over a year ago when still actively involved. I get an automatic email back saying he's on sabbatical the entire Spring semester... FML. He is really the only person in the department that specialized in the early American period, so this definitely sucks. I doubt he is going to want to be proofread chapters of a thesis while on sabbatical. I already enrolled in the course, and he was paid for "advising me" even though we had virtually no communications after I spoke with him about the thesis. In order to get some support, I may have to re-enroll in a course with him, while on sabbatical, if he is willing to do that. Anyone else care to chime in? Maybe I should have posted this in the "writing, presenting, and publishing" section?
virmundi Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 You might consider going over to "Phinished" (just google it) and checking in over there.
ryanlikesvespas Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 You might consider going over to "Phinished" (just google it) and checking in over there. Thanks, hadn't heard of that forum. Took a look, and looks like you have to register in order to view any of it. Tried registering and says the webmaster is out of town for a week. I'll bookmark it and keep checking.
virmundi Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Yeah -- I haven't been over there for a little bit, and I registered a while ago (I'm doing my M.A. thesis also!)... but I think that the folks over there are uniquely suited to help you as they are all doing their dissertations/theses, etc. As far as a topic goes -- hmm. Tough! I don't think that I, personally, would have been able to pull something out of my . . . ether -- which is why I suggested that particular site.
ryanlikesvespas Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 Yeah -- I haven't been over there for a little bit, and I registered a while ago (I'm doing my M.A. thesis also!)... but I think that the folks over there are uniquely suited to help you as they are all doing their dissertations/theses, etc. As far as a topic goes -- hmm. Tough! I don't think that I, personally, would have been able to pull something out of my . . . ether -- which is why I suggested that particular site. Didn't pull it out of your ? So how did you come up with yours?
rising_star Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Have you thought about taking one of the longer papers you did write and expanding it?
virmundi Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Didn't pull it out of your ? So how did you come up with yours? It was a relatively long and drawn out process. I started my M.A. with a very (*very*) general interest in a topic in my field and was able to hone it down by first becoming somewhat more interested in a particular subfield, and then by finding a source that had been largely neglected or denigrated. If you find a source that hasn't been looked at except by late-19th or early-20th century scholars who largely viewed it through the chauvinist lenses of their day, you'll probably have an easy time spinning that into a nice topic.
ryanlikesvespas Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 Have you thought about taking one of the longer papers you did write and expanding it? Excellent idea! However, I'll be completely honest when saying these conference papers lacked originality and really much research at all. Its amazing how easy it is to write a paper regurditating a few authors' opinions in a single paper. Silly Undergraduate mistake!
ryanlikesvespas Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 It was a relatively long and drawn out process. I started my M.A. with a very (*very*) general interest in a topic in my field and was able to hone it down by first becoming somewhat more interested in a particular subfield, and then by finding a source that had been largely neglected or denigrated. If you find a source that hasn't been looked at except by late-19th or early-20th century scholars who largely viewed it through the chauvinist lenses of their day, you'll probably have an easy time spinning that into a nice topic. Glad that worked out for you. I've began to do the same thing. I had two really great museum internships regarding the same subject matter that I have a strong interest in that hasn't been written a whole lot on. What's difficult is digging through it all, when most of what is out there is some historical narrative ("history books"- see barnes and noble) and stacks of primary sources. I'm curious, was your thesis combating these "chauvinist ideas" or something else?
virmundi Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Glad that worked out for you. I've began to do the same thing. I had two really great museum internships regarding the same subject matter that I have a strong interest in that hasn't been written a whole lot on. What's difficult is digging through it all, when most of what is out there is some historical narrative ("history books"- see barnes and noble) and stacks of primary sources. I'm curious, was your thesis combating these "chauvinist ideas" or something else? I suppose that it would be combating the older ideas, because the way in which other scholars had previously interpreted my primary sources reflected an early 20th century mentality rather than any sort of effort to understand the text in terms of the era in which it was produced and the intellectual milieu in which it had been created. Of course, along the way to making this argument, there is ample opportunity for me to make a far more substantial argument about several other topics as well, but the reinterpretation of my source is, nevertheless, at the core of my thesis... the first chapter is solid -- I'm hard at work on finishing the remainder in time to graduate this spring.
rising_star Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Excellent idea! However, I'll be completely honest when saying these conference papers lacked originality and really much research at all. Its amazing how easy it is to write a paper regurditating a few authors' opinions in a single paper. Silly Undergraduate mistake! Yes, but that doesn't mean you can't still start with one of these papers. You can do a deeper exploration of the ideas and find evidence to back up your argument. Alternately, you could go with something based on the internships that you've done...
ryanlikesvespas Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 Alternately, you could go with something based on the internships that you've done... Good point, that is why I actually took the second internship. I was hoping to be able to do some of my own research, but the museum didn't end up having a whole lot of anything in the time period that I was interested... Here's a big question for anyone willing to entertain it... Many would say the idea of a thesis to many is to take a look at whats been written, said, thought out, etc and put your own spin on it however that might be. What if its something that hasn't been written on? Say you have a stack of primary sources on a specific topic. Is an historic narrative appropriate? Ex- a military unit, a vessel, a person, plantation, yada yada, examine the primary sources, and bring it into comparison of the bigger context on the war (military unit), the navy (a vessel), the office (a person), agriculture/slavery (a plantation). Taking this route is much more appareling to me, just don't know if it will fly. Man, do I feel like an idiot asking these questions 30 hours into a 33 hour masters degree! I can't help but blame myself but you can imagine I'm a little frustrated with my advisors, and the dept.
virmundi Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Good point, that is why I actually took the second internship. I was hoping to be able to do some of my own research, but the museum didn't end up having a whole lot of anything in the time period that I was interested... Here's a big question for anyone willing to entertain it... Many would say the idea of a thesis to many is to take a look at whats been written, said, thought out, etc and put your own spin on it however that might be. What if its something that hasn't been written on? Say you have a stack of primary sources on a specific topic. Is an historic narrative appropriate? Ex- a military unit, a vessel, a person, plantation, yada yada, examine the primary sources, and bring it into comparison of the bigger context on the war (military unit), the navy (a vessel), the office (a person), agriculture/slavery (a plantation). Taking this route is much more appareling to me, just don't know if it will fly. Man, do I feel like an idiot asking these questions 30 hours into a 33 hour masters degree! I can't help but blame myself but you can imagine I'm a little frustrated with my advisors, and the dept. You'll probably still have to do some sort of historiographical analysis -- if not of the sources themselves, then of what historians have written on similar topics in the past... that need not be exhaustive, however.
StrangeLight Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 the basics: at most programs, a thesis (even an MA thesis) needs to be a piece of original research. that means you need to use primary sources and do an analysis of them. it also (usually) needs to be an argument that no one has made before about your case. you can take someone else's argument and apply it to a new situation. or you can take a heavily-covered topic and try to put a new slant on it. or you can use sources that no one's used before to strengthen or take apart existing arguments. but there are two things you'll always need to do: have primary sources, and talk about how your argument relates to the other historiographical stuff that's been written already. there are two main ways to start: 1) find a set of primary sources. any at all. plantation records from a single plantation. whatever. start there, read the sources, and see what they tell you. see if you can pull an argument out of it. then consult the secondary literature, see if anyone's written on that idea before. if so, keep looking for a different idea. if not, there's your thesis. start writing. 2) read a lot of the secondary literature. read the books on topics that interest you. as you read, look for "gaps." places where they mention they're unsure, or someone needs to do further research. then, once you've found your gap in the historiography, start looking for sources (probably published sources available at the closest university library to you) that relate to your topic. then start writing your thesis. the least complicated approach is to start with the set of sources and see if an argument or idea jumps out at you after reading them. i will tell you, it is extremely difficult to navigate the process of writing a masters thesis without the help of a professor. you could end up going down the rabbit hole and working for a very long time only to be told that you're not on the right track and need to start over. if this means waiting for your advisor to get off their sabbatical, i suggest you do that. in the meantime, try reading some books related to your field (i.e. if you're doing plantation slavery history, read the books on that topic, even if they're about different states or regions). also consider emailing the director of graduate studies (who probably isn't the same person as the department chair) and telling him/her you want to finish your masters. the DGS will be able to tell you the specific requirements of your thesis. don't feel silly for asking these questions. the history profession hasn't actually figured out a good way to teach people how to DO history yet. they just assume that if we read enough of it and try a few times (writing masters theses, dissertation chapters, book chapters) that eventually we'll get the hang of it. most people writing MAs have these sorts of questions at some point, even/especially when they already thought they knew what to do. /testifying Sigaba 1
oseirus Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Please very careful if you choose to use the history channel programming idea. A lot of their stuff is junk programming w/no valid historical connection. Otherwise I think everyone here has made a very valid point
ryanlikesvespas Posted February 12, 2012 Author Posted February 12, 2012 I apologize for the tardy response, some resent life events have come up. Unsure if I mentioned it but my thesis advisor, although on sabbatical emailed me back with some good info and hasn't forgotten me! StrangeLight, that sort of information was exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much! Will keep you posted of any other questions. One last one: Is there an online database or something with finished thesis? I've never actually read someone else's and it may not be a bad idea to wrap my ahead around what others have done in the past, yes?
RevolutionBlues Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Some schools keep previous theses on file in the library, though you may need permission to view them.
ryanlikesvespas Posted February 12, 2012 Author Posted February 12, 2012 Some schools keep previous theses on file in the library, though you may need permission to view them. Good thinking. Unfortunatently my school locks you out of the online databases, JSTOR, etc, after you aren't enrolled. Apparently they think you need to enroll and finish your masters thesis all in one semester.... Luckily, my brother is a grad student at another college and he has passed along his username/password for my use, and they have an online database with thesis/dissertations I am combing through. Thanks again! I'll post any progress.
oseirus Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Good thinking. Unfortunatently my school locks you out of the online databases, JSTOR, etc, after you aren't enrolled. Apparently they think you need to enroll and finish your masters thesis all in one semester.... Luckily, my brother is a grad student at another college and he has passed along his username/password for my use, and they have an online database with thesis/dissertations I am combing through. Thanks again! I'll post any progress. have you bing or google?
ryanlikesvespas Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 I definitely googled (and still am) before posting my dumb questions. Problem is most the time I came across some other schmuck asking the same questions I am'
oseirus Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I definitely googled (and still am) before posting my dumb questions. Problem is most the time I came across some other schmuck asking the same questions I am' Well now we know the resident jack ass-answer-giver is (a.k.a. moi) let's leave this to the professionals ... exit, stage left
SapperDaddy Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 The one bit of advice I have for actually getting your thesis done is to start writing it. I rewrote my first two chapters about 6 times before I finally got them right, but the process of actually writing helped me to gather my thoughts and think through exactly what I wanted to say.
oseirus Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Have you asked anyone on here, if they are in a similar, to perhaps take a glance at their thesis? Or is this a no-no?
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