Financial issues for vegans/vegetarians?

[InquilineKea]

Do vegans/vegetarians generally have to pay more, and are the effects city-dependent? Do "vegan/vegetarian"-friendly cities have lower costs of living for vegans/vegetarians, as compared to non-friendly ones?

[once]

I don't think that being a vegetarian has had any effect on my food costs. If anything, I've spent less on food since becoming a vegetarian a year ago; meat can get quite expensive but tofu and beans are cheap. The only benefit that you might get from living in a "vegan/vegetarian" friendly city is a greater variety of options when you eat out (such as the local mexican place offering tofu or another meat substitute).

Although it's not a scientific study or anything, this blog post explains things pretty well:

http://vegansofcolor.wordpress.com/2009/02/20/does-being-vegan-cost-more-money/

[msafiri]

Seriously? WTF kind of question is this and how is anyone qualified to answer this for you? Seriously, if you're going to make 20+ new posts in one day, you could at least bother to reply to people's questions and comments, rather than just steamrolling on to the next overly broad question that no one hear can answer.

How should anyone know about the veg*n cost of living somewhere? Why do you care? Why would it cost more for veg*ns to live somewhere than it would carnivores?

InquilineKea, have you even thought about how ridiculous some of your questions are? Why do you waste people's time with these inane questions and ridiculous numbers of posts in a day?

Moderators: Is it possible to put someone on a posting freeze, wherein they can't create new topics for X hours/days? Maybe that's what's needed to stop InquilineKea's binge-purge cycle of posting...

[InquilineKea]

I do reply to people's questions and comments, and I read what everyone has to say in reply (and I do try to reply to questions whenever possible, unless the reply could lead into a fight). Not all comments demand a reply - but I will reply to ones that are well-thought out where the person is expecting a reply from me. For replies I appreciate where it's hard to reply to with something other than "thanks", I will give upvotes (e.g. I upvoted once's reply to my thread here because I appreciated it, but it's hard to give a meaningful reply to it at this moment).

Also, some of my threads are not for myself, but for the rest of the community.

For the question in mind, yes, I care because maybe I am a near-vegan and food prices could factor into whether or not a place is affordable for me or not.

Edited January 29, 2012 by InquilineKea

[bythesea]

umm... this is a forum, right?

where people ask questions and explain concerns for feedback?

and it's also a time of rather stressful waiting?

IK - I don't post much, but I do appreciate the variety of questions that you and other frequent posters put out there. When I see your names on the home page, I know that there'll be something interesting that maybe doesn't affect me at the moment, but might in the future. And it might even have been a question that I was just too shy to ask. And I might be shy because I'd be afraid of getting a response like msafiri's. So thanks for posting - keep it up

[rising_star]

Honestly, no one can answer this question for you in a specific way without knowing which cities you're looking at, making a list of grocery items you're likely to buy, and comparing their prices at major grocery stores in each location. But, this is something you could do yourself when you go on visits.

In essence, this is a basic cost of living question. Find a cost of living calculator that includes groceries and use it to compare the various cities you're looking at. You can also look at CSA prices and reviews for all of the cities you're considering. In all honesty, you're not likely to find much variation due to the fact that most groceries in the US are supplied by a few major providers and sold at nationwide chains.

@bythesea, I can understand msafiri's frustration because InquilineKea posts many topics daily, doesn't really connect them to grad school, and many have the same answer which is "It depends". I've posted a variation of "It depends" multiple times to InquilineKea and never gotten a reply or even any indication that s/he has read my comments. I think that's why his/her posts tend to get fewer comments now than they did a month or two ago.

[koolherc]

In NYC, I can definitely say it's cheaper. I'm near-vegan and my wife and I definitely spend less now than when we were buying cheese and meats. As long as you can find a real vegetable/produce store (not a supermarket), then you're fine. This is most likely the case in the outer boroughs rather than in Manhattan.

[InquilineKea]

umm... this is a forum, right?

where people ask questions and explain concerns for feedback?

and it's also a time of rather stressful waiting?

IK - I don't post much, but I do appreciate the variety of questions that you and other frequent posters put out there. When I see your names on the home page, I know that there'll be something interesting that maybe doesn't affect me at the moment, but might in the future. And it might even have been a question that I was just too shy to ask. And I might be shy because I'd be afraid of getting a response like msafiri's. So thanks for posting - keep it up

Thanks very much - I appreciated that comment a lot.

Honestly, no one can answer this question for you in a specific way without knowing which cities you're looking at, making a list of grocery items you're likely to buy, and comparing their prices at major grocery stores in each location. But, this is something you could do yourself when you go on visits.

In essence, this is a basic cost of living question. Find a cost of living calculator that includes groceries and use it to compare the various cities you're looking at. You can also look at CSA prices and reviews for all of the cities you're considering. In all honesty, you're not likely to find much variation due to the fact that most groceries in the US are supplied by a few major providers and sold at nationwide chains.

@bythesea, I can understand msafiri's frustration because InquilineKea posts many topics daily, doesn't really connect them to grad school, and many have the same answer which is "It depends". I've posted a variation of "It depends" multiple times to InquilineKea and never gotten a reply or even any indication that s/he has read my comments. I think that's why his/her posts tend to get fewer comments now than they did a month or two ago.

Okay thanks for the advice - I'll look up the CSA prices and reviews.

It's hard to reply to an "It depends" reply. But I'll try to be better with replying. Even then though, a lot of the general questions do generate useful replies.

In NYC, I can definitely say it's cheaper. I'm near-vegan and my wife and I definitely spend less now than when we were buying cheese and meats. As long as you can find a real vegetable/produce store (not a supermarket), then you're fine. This is most likely the case in the outer boroughs rather than in Manhattan.

Ah yes - this was definitely useful and specialized advice (especially if I end up at Columbia). I would have upvoted it if I didn't run into my daily quota (which I often run into).

Edited January 29, 2012 by InquilineKea

[koolherc]

^oh yeah, at Columbia it should be no problem. Washington Heights and parts of Harlem should have plenty of cheap vegetable markets

[burgundykitten]

I'd have to say my vegan cost of living is about to exponentially rise... We have food co-ops & grocery stores that cater to some vegan needs in my area (things like seitan or other fake meat, not just fresh produce), but things like Whole Foods & Trader Joe's are 45 minutes away, so it's a small luxury when we get to eat "sausage." However, my roommates & I are about to move to a city with tons of vegan eating-out options, plus multiple Whole Foods & Trader Joe's locations within 10 minutes of us. We (sadly, pathetically) went so far as to choose an apartment close to both campus and the local pizza shop that delivers vegan pizza.

I couldn't comment on the cost because I haven't bought meat since living on my own, but I would say the fake meat can be pricey for the amount you get.

[eco_env]

Seriously? WTF kind of question is this and how is anyone qualified to answer this for you? Seriously, if you're going to make 20+ new posts in one day, you could at least bother to reply to people's questions and comments, rather than just steamrolling on to the next overly broad question that no one hear can answer.

How should anyone know about the veg*n cost of living somewhere? Why do you care? Why would it cost more for veg*ns to live somewhere than it would carnivores?

InquilineKea, have you even thought about how ridiculous some of your questions are? Why do you waste people's time with these inane questions and ridiculous numbers of posts in a day?

Moderators: Is it possible to put someone on a posting freeze, wherein they can't create new topics for X hours/days? Maybe that's what's needed to stop InquilineKea's binge-purge cycle of posting...

wow. quite an outburst over some innocent questions. I also don't think it's neccessary to reply to responses to your own question, though it might help with getting a better response sometimes.

Edited January 29, 2012 by eco_env

[eco_env]

I'd have to say my vegan cost of living is about to exponentially rise... We have food co-ops & grocery stores that cater to some vegan needs in my area (things like seitan or other fake meat, not just fresh produce),

you can buy gluten and make your own seitan. and tofu is available in most grocery stores. (Though I don't know how easy gulten is to find, and the texture of tofu isn't as good, at least in my opinion).

[koolherc]

I tend to buy tofu, gluten, seitan/mock duck, tempeh, etc from asian communities where it's always cheaper, homemade, and fresher. Go to your local chinatown or asian-owned grocery. Veganism doesn't require a lot of money (eg. buddhist monks invented seitan), but companies definitely are trying to take advantage of the ignorance of trend-followers in the upper middle class.

Btw, daiya, the fake cheese used in vegan pizza, is HORRIBLE for your health. It's just super-compressed oil. Eating real cheese is healthier, amazingly enough. I wouldn't advise anyone eat that stuff. My wife and I like to make our own veg pizza though, and we use hummus as the "cheese." Once it's baked, it has a real cheesy flavor and is obviously way better for you.

Edited January 29, 2012 by koolherc

[InquilineKea]

I'd have to say my vegan cost of living is about to exponentially rise... We have food co-ops & grocery stores that cater to some vegan needs in my area (things like seitan or other fake meat, not just fresh produce), but things like Whole Foods & Trader Joe's are 45 minutes away, so it's a small luxury when we get to eat "sausage." However, my roommates & I are about to move to a city with tons of vegan eating-out options, plus multiple Whole Foods & Trader Joe's locations within 10 minutes of us. We (sadly, pathetically) went so far as to choose an apartment close to both campus and the local pizza shop that delivers vegan pizza.

I couldn't comment on the cost because I haven't bought meat since living on my own, but I would say the fake meat can be pricey for the amount you get.

Interesting. So cities with better vegan eating-out options often tend to be pricier for us vegans, eh? I can understand that - we splurge more when we have more options.

wow. quite an outburst over some innocent questions. I also don't think it's neccessary to reply to responses to your own question, though it might help with getting a better response sometimes.

Thanks very much for defending me. I think this thread is now showing that some very useful advice is coming out of this thread now.

I tend to buy tofu, gluten, seitan/mock duck, tempeh, etc from asian communities where it's always cheaper, homemade, and fresher. Go to your local chinatown or asian-owned grocery. Veganism doesn't require a lot of money (eg. buddhist monks invented seitan), but companies definitely are trying to take advantage of the ignorance of trend-followers in the upper middle class.

Btw, daiya, the fake cheese used in vegan pizza, is HORRIBLE for your health. It's just super-compressed oil. Eating real cheese is healthier, amazingly enough. I wouldn't advise anyone eat that stuff. My wife and I like to make our own veg pizza though, and we use hummus as the "cheese." Once it's baked, it has a real cheesy flavor and is obviously way better for you.

Very acute observation on how companies are trying to take advantage of the ignorance of these trend-followers.

You have a good point about the Asian supermarkets. Aren't a lot of them revolting to vegan senses though? They actually kill live fish in a lot of them. With that said, I can control my revulsion at that. I wonder if there are Asian supermarkets that are more vegan-friendly than others.

I do notice that almost none of them have any white people in them for some reason.

[ktel]

@bythesea, I can understand msafiri's frustration because InquilineKea posts many topics daily, doesn't really connect them to grad school, and many have the same answer which is "It depends". I've posted a variation of "It depends" multiple times to InquilineKea and never gotten a reply or even any indication that s/he has read my comments. I think that's why his/her posts tend to get fewer comments now than they did a month or two ago.

I can understand the frustration as well, as I find due to the frequency of InquilineKea's posts and the nature of them I often just roll my eyes at yet another vague question that will have a vague answer. I suppose I just find the posts to be very impersonal.

[burgundykitten]

you can buy gluten and make your own seitan. and tofu is available in most grocery stores. (Though I don't know how easy gulten is to find, and the texture of tofu isn't as good, at least in my opinion).

Tofu's easily accessible here, but we usually only buy it if we're putting it in a recipe (example: we make vegan low-fat alfredo sauce). Seitan hasn't been THAT big of a loss because, it spite of the fact that I love it, it's not something I crave on even a weekly basis. I might try out making a seitan log soon though, I think about it every Thanksgiving & then end up with a Field Roast or Tofurky instead.

I tend to buy tofu, gluten, seitan/mock duck, tempeh, etc from asian communities where it's always cheaper, homemade, and fresher. Go to your local chinatown or asian-owned grocery.

They sell mock duck?! A Thai restaurant near us has amazing mock duck curry made with TVP that I'm dying to recreate.

Btw, daiya, the fake cheese used in vegan pizza, is HORRIBLE for your health. It's just super-compressed oil. Eating real cheese is healthier, amazingly enough. I wouldn't advise anyone eat that stuff. My wife and I like to make our own veg pizza though, and we use hummus as the "cheese." Once it's baked, it has a real cheesy flavor and is obviously way better for you.

Also suggested for cheesy flavor: nutritional yeast. We put it on our popcorn. Daiya can be absolutely NASTY on top of horrible for you. My roommate apparently got a Daiya-pizza last night that was overloading with fake-mozz & it wasn't edible whatsoever.

[slaNYC]

I don't know why I'm replying to this discussion but I feel compelled to state the obvious. Why worry about the cost of food? I mean, when contemplating what school to go to the cost of housing will certainly be the biggest factor. If one selects a school in NYC or Los Angeles or San Francisco it's going to be quite expensive as opposed to going to school in Nebraska or Ohio. Food expenses are a sunk cost. You have to eat no matter where you are. But you don't have to pay more than $1000 a month in rent in many cities. I'm just saying...

[InquilineKea]

It won't make a difference in the decision I make. But it is something to take into consideration when I finally move.

[Eigen]

I think my frustration with the posting habits can best be described by a post from the CHE forums:

This forum is not a set of people hired to be Dr.-Answer-Guy. It is a group of people engaged in ongoing discussions about a variety of issues in (and related to) higher education, and only works because there is give-and-take. Emphasis on the give.

I find that InquilineKea asks a lot of rambling, vague questions, often posted in a row, but there's rarely a lot of *substance* in the questions. Discussion boards are about just that, discussion... And the best way to start discussion is to actually put something into the starting question. For instance, your post starting this thread was simply two back-to-back questions, with nothing else. If you had, instead, taken the time to give your perspective and insight onto the issue (say, issues surrounding vegetarian/vegan eating in your current city/area), then you would have started a discussion by providing some information.

Even most of your replies are only direct responses to the points posed by others, you rarely seem to expound them into points that you are generating or providing as counter-examples. It comes across like, instead of belonging to this community, you're standing outside and studying it via asking series of questions and recording the responses.

I'll also say I find it a bit frustrating when you revive threads that are more than a year old to add nothing other than "good point". If you're adding something of substance, that's different, but what you're doing is really just "bumping" the thread up in the forums. I know other people don't mind the bumping of old threads, but for me that discussion happened a year ago. If you want to start a new discussion on the same topic, then that's nice too- and it provides two different but parallel discussions for people to look at, each of which captures (possibly) different perspectives by the same people.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Eigen

[koolherc]

^interesting observations. So he's either a "law enforcement officer" (fed) or conducting a study.

[Eigen]

I was going to say social scientist, personally.

The observation and probing isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does serve to make one more of an outsider than a part of the community.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Eigen

[msafiri]

It's not even *good* social science work. Usually, you try to become part of the community or at least make an effort to understand how it works before participating in or joining it.

[purpledinosaur]

I'd have to say my vegan cost of living is about to exponentially rise... We have food co-ops & grocery stores that cater to some vegan needs in my area (things like seitan or other fake meat, not just fresh produce), but things like Whole Foods & Trader Joe's are 45 minutes away, so it's a small luxury when we get to eat "sausage."

http://www.theppk.com/2012/01/vegan_sausage/

BOOM.

Seriously, this sausage is so good! I just made some. I'm sorry that this is off topic, but... I just had to recommend it for any veg*ns out there who are looking for a sausage substitute.

Also, I live in a major city in Canada, and I have always had way smaller grocery bills than my non-veg*n friends. But that is mostly because I tend to almost always cook my meals at home rather than buy things. And I bake my own bread, making seitan from scratch, etc.

[chocoholic]

I live in a small city in the midwest and since I have become vegetarian, have not noticed a significant difference in how much money I spend on food. It has been about the same amount, give or take. In my experience eating out has actually been a lot cheaper because meat-based dishes are usually more expensive. I have not had trouble finding vegetarian friendly restaurants or meat replacements here, but the area where I live is very liberal and thus, vegetarian/vegan friendly. This may be something to keep in mind when you think about graduate school because not every city is veg friendly. You could try doing so research online to see how many, what types, the costs, etc. of veg friendly restaurants near the schools you are thinking of attending. I would also do some research on the local grocery stores and how much of a selection they have for meat and dairy replacement products. These items can often be more expensive than meat or dairy but in the long run, it is better for your health and thus, actually less expensive (you are avoiding diabetes, obesity, heart disease,cancer, etc. But I'm sure you already realize this!) I did notice that almond, rice, soy,etc milk is more expensive than cow's milk but I would never switch back, even as a future poor grad student.

[Hillary Emick]

It depends. If you are eating beans and peanut butter, it's probably cheaper than eating meat. If you are eating soy/textured vegetable protein fake meat, it's more expensive. I found being vegan less expensive than being an omnivore.